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Breaking News All | The Vault | United Prayer | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  4/19/2024
Choice News TUESDAY, MAR 18, 2003
Paisley: MPs should show support for armed forces


Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) delivers a statement on war in Iraq (news - web sites) before a debate at the Houses of Parliament in London, March 18, 2003. Blair, putting his premiership on the line as he prepares to take Britain
The main points of the House of Commons debate on Iraq (in reverse chronological order). Updated: 19:19 GMT

Other points so far:

Mr Paisley added that he hoped that MPs would show their unqualified support for the British armed forces and "back them all the way".

Democratic Unionist Party leader Ian Paisley said Tuesday's debate had redeemed the House of Commons in the eyes of the British nation.

Sometimes war was needed to secure the peace and the UK and its allies were now at that stage, she said.

Labour's Caroline Flint said that UN inspectors had already established that there were "a lot of unanswered questions" about weapons in Iraq.

Mr Page said he feared that once the West started to attack countries which had despicable dictators there might be no end to it.

Tory Richard Page began his speech by saying he was no peacenik but he expressed concern that once Iraq collapsed there was a mammoth task to rebuild the country.

There was a stark choice: either the UK could walk away from its international obligations or take part and ensure a speedy conclusion to hostilities, Mr Bradley argued.

Labour MP Peter Bradley said it was necessary to make a rational and principled decision committing British troops to a war.

Sir Teddy asked where the evidence was that the sort of intervention proposed by the US and UK in Iraq to re-establish democracy actually worked.

Tory Sir Teddy Taylor said the West should take considerable responsibility for any weapons of mass destruction that Saddam Hussein might have.

Mr Marshall-Andrews said that the paradox was that in his lifetime the US had been the greatest force for peace and freedom and yet had sometimes been the greatest force for war.

There was public concern that the US was wielding uncontrolled power across the world according to its administration's whim, said Mr Marshall-Andrews.

Labour's Bob Marshall-Andrews asked by whose authority the US could offer an effective pardon to Saddam Hussein for all his crimes if he agreed to leave Iraq.

Mr Burnett added that he would vote for the amendment despite his support for British forces already stationed in the Gulf because he had concerns over the concept of pre-emptive military action.

Mr Burnett said he was disappointed that France had frustrated efforts to maintain international solidarity over Iraq.

Liberal Democrat John Burnett said he was grateful to the government for providing MPs with the opportunity to vote on military action and he thanked the prime minister and the foreign secretary for their efforts to go the UN route.

Labour MP Helen Jackson said the effectiveness of attempts to secure a peaceful solution to the Iraq crisis was repeatedly undermined by US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's apparent willingness to revert to force.

Mr Trimble said Mr Blair's speech was "powerful and compelling".

Mr Trimble said the US and UK should not allow themselves to be "humiliated" by the French.

Ulster Unionist leader David Trimble containment would not work in terms of dealing with Iraq.

Labour MP Wayne David said the consequences of not taking action against Iraq would be horrific.

Tory MP Jonathan Sayeed said the case for war had not yet been made.

Mr Bayley welcomed efforts to find peace in the Middle East.

Labour MP Hugh Bayley paid tribute to troops from his consistuency on active service in the Gulf.

Mr Maples questioned whether it was sensible for MPs to "try to defeat" the government "at this late stage of the day".

Tory MP John Maples rose at 17:35GMT and said MPs that were opposing the government on "principle" could not be acting on the same principle when they supported the government over Kosovo.

"Sadly, I do not trust some of the people who are leading us over this issue," said Mr Sedgemore, stressing that he will not be voting with the government.

Referring to the Attorney General Lord Goldsmith, Mr Sedgemore said: "The law is a market place and if you shop around you can always get some poor soul to give you the opinion you want."

It was sad that Mr Blair had embraced the "frightening concept" of "might is right" instead of tolerance and liberalism, said Mr Sedgemore.

"Who would have thought the actions of a Labour prime minister would have given rise to the biggest demonstration in our history against his own government," said Mr Sedgemore.

Mr Sedgemore insisted that the scale of Mr Blair's "misjudgment" over this issue was "enormous".

Labour's Brian Sedgemore rose at 17:28GMT and said he hoped "this is not the beginning of the end for our prime minister".

By acting unilaterally, the UK and US have "undermined" the UN, said Mr Baron.

Mr Baron asked what would be lost by giving the UN inspectors what they want - a bit more time to carry out their inspections.

Tory MP John Baron started his speech at 17:19 to argue that "with a heavy heart" he believed "war is wrong" at this time.

Mr Worthington said he was concerned about the lack of reporting to the Commons about the "humanitarian consequences" of invading Iraq.

Labour's Tony Worthington rose at 17:11GMT. He said Britain was "rapidly in danger of becoming a piggy in the middle for every discontented, ethnic or religious group in the area".

"We should still be working through the UN. We have not exhausted all the diplomatic and political alternatives at this stage. We should not be going to war," added Mr Moore.

Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokesman Michael Moore rose at 17:06GMT and said he would have favoured continuing with the UN inspections.

"Disarmament is now impossible through the preferred route, hence serious consequences are now imminent and inevitable. If we prevaricate, we lose credibility," said Mr Anderson.

"France has played into the hands of Saddam Hussein by blocking the UN route," said Mr Anderson.

Labour's Donald Anderson, chairman of the Commons foreign affairs select committee, rose at 16:57GMT and insisted that France was to blame for the collapse of the diplomatic process.

To his Uxbridge constituents who are serving in the Gulf, Mr Randall said: "I wish them well and once I have now said my piece, I will shut up and let them get on with their job."

Mr Randall said: "If the amendment falls, I will seriously consider the political and moral gymnastics of whether I can support the government. I am not sure at this stage whether I can do that."

Mr Randall said he would be voting for the anti-war amendment. "I shall be voting in that lobby with a very heavy heart," he said.

John Randall, the Conservative whip who quit his post because of his concern over a possible Iraq war, rose at 16:51.

Labour's Stephen McCabe rose at 16:43. He said Saddam is being given a "further advantage" by MPs who are concentrating on the government's failure to get a second UN resolution.

Traditional skills of diplomacy have "come horribly unstuck" with too much ambiguity, said Sir George.

Tory Sir George Young began his speech at 16:37GMT and warned: "The world's democracies have failed to get their act together and present a coherent and united front against an obnoxious regime."

"I believe that the government is taking the right course of action. It's the only course of action that will achieve disarmament of Iraq," said Mr Gardiner.

"What did they think the word 'final' meant in that resolution when Iraq was given a final opportunity to comply? Was it final before yet another resolution? Was it final before a few more weeks? Was it final before a few more months?" questioned Mr Gardiner.

Mr Gardiner said he could not understand how anyone who supported UN resolution 1441 could not support military action.

Labour's Barry Gardiner rose at 16:28 to say: "I will not support the prime minister out of loyalty. I will support the prime minister out of conviction that what he is doing is right."

Mr Salmond said he believed there were many sections of America that would "welcome" a vote against war from the British Parliament "that says not in our name".

The fact that the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan doubted the authority of action without a second UN resolution means "you cannot say that it is being done in the name of the UN", said Mr Salmond.

Mr Salmond said "somebody should speak up for the French" because their position had been "totally consistent".

Referring to the sympathy expressed for the US after 11 September atrocity, Mr Salmond said: "Now we are in a situation where 18 months later that enormous world coalition has been totally dissipated."

SNP former leader Alex Salmond began his speech at 16:19GMT, arguing that war on Iraq was about a "new world order" with an "unrivalled super-power".

Mr Savidge said he feared Iraq had been on the agenda of the hawks President Bush appointed to his administration "long before 11 September".

Labour's Malcolm Savidge rose to his feet at 16:09GMT to ask if anyone seriously believed there "is actually immediate intent to attack the UK" and other countries with weapons of mass destruction.

Sir Brian said: "Sooner or later we have to face up to some realities. This is not a debate about legality or morality...it's whether or not we have the will to do what we believe and know to be right."

Former Tory chairman Sir Brian Mawhinney commended Tony Blair's speech "without reservation".

"The biggest failure is the failure to act," said Mr Soley.

Labour MP Clive Soley said the world faced "very severe and real" threats.

His anger at the deaths in Serbia had obscured the fact that the world was better off without Milosevic, said Mr Johnson.

Mr Johnson said he had seen US bombing at first hand when he had been in Belgrade including the mistakes that led to civilian deaths.

Tory MP Boris Johnson stood up at 15:44GMT.

Mr Efford said the UN belonged to all its members and that winning the peace required the world to go back and negotiate.

For too long the US had been able to boss the UN around, said Mr Efford.

It was not an attack on Saddam Hussein that would recruit other international terrorists it was the double standards being applied in Western foreign policy in the Middle East, said Mr Efford.

Mr Efford thanked the prime minister for saying he would respect all opinions on Iraq even if they went against the government.

Labour's Clive Efford stood up at 15:37GMT.

Mr Bruce added for the US to be lead the world it first needed a world leader.

But he added that the US must respect other democratic nations if they chose to differ with them.

Mr Bruce said there was absolute determination to work together to defeat international terrorism.

The senior Lib Dem asked that why, if resolution 1441 was now enough to justify attacking Iraq, why there had been such an effort to get further international backing at the UN.

Liberal Democrat Malcolm Bruce stood up at 15:30GMT.

There was still work to be done by the weapons inspectors before war began, Ms Quin added.

US diplomacy had at some stages been "atrocious" in recent months but then Ms Quin added that she also was outraged by the behaviour of France on some occasions.

She said that "some teeth had been drawn" in recent months in terms of dealing with the threat posed by Saddam.

Ms Quin asked the question 'was war with Iraq necessary at this precise point in history'.

Ms Quin said that she found it difficult to decide who to vote with as both sides in the debate had made compelling arguments.

Labour's Joyce Quin stood up at 15:23GMT. The MP also paid tribute to Robin Cook's work in government.

Mr Mackay contrasted the position of those opposed in principal to war with that of President Chirac whom he said was acting in France's commercial interests.

The behaviour of the French in recent months had been nothing short of disgraceful.

But having listened to the prime minister on Tuesday Mr Mackay was convinced that action to disarm Iraq was now justified.

He said that he had felt in the past that the prime minister and President Bush had not made a convincing case for war.

Mr Mackay added that he had supported the prime minister over Kosovo and Sierra Leone.

He said the last Gulf War and the Falklands presented clear criteria for conflict because sovereign states had been invaded.

Conservative MP Andrew Mackay stood up at 15:14GMT.

Mr George listed the countries that supported the US/UK approach adding that the prime minister still had a variety of holiday options available to him even without France.

Mr George said there was a legal basis for the war and that Iraq had been given enough time to disarm voluntarily.

He said that war was hell but he would still vote with the prime minister because he was convinced of the case for action on many grounds, said Mr George.

Labour's Bruce George stood up at 15:06GMT.

He said he was saddened by the anti-Americanism among some opponents to war because of what the US had done for peace in the world over the past 50 years.

Mr Winterton went on to add that there had been 17 UN resolutions over Iraq since 1991 and Saddam had "made a mockery of the United Nations".

He said he hoped this war would be a short war with the minimum of casualties.

Mr Winterton said he was opposed to war because it was brutal, indiscriminate and cruel but on occasions it was still necessary to defend the civilised world.

Nevertheless Mr Blair had set out a powerful case for disarming Iraq by force if necessary.

He said he had admired Robin Cook when he was Foreign Secretary and Leader of the Commons and respected his principled resignation.

Senior Tory Nicholas Winterton rose to speak at 14:57GMT.

If, however, British troops were committed to fight people must support them.

The forthcoming vote was not about the integrity of the prime minister - if it was Mr Denham said he would support the government.

Action against Iraq would be pre-emptive.

Mr Denham said the US had thrown away the sympathy it had won in the wake of the 11 September terror attacks.

It was not the prime minister's fault that such a consensus had not come about.

Mr Denham said he was no pacifist but he felt the failure of to put together an international consensus had undermined support for war.

The Labour MP said that the UK and its allies were in danger of breeding more terrorism rather than reducing the risk of it.

John Denham - who quit the government on Tuesday over Iraq - stood up at 14:49.

"I cannot find a sufficient moral case for condemning thousands or tens of thousands of people to death [in a war]," he said.

He said the policy of containment of Iraq had worked from 1991 until 2002.

Mr Hogg said the case for war was not overwhelming and that was because none of the usual moral or legal criteria had been satisfied.

He said that so far as the UK forces were concerned war was not inevitable because the House of Commons had the opportunity to vote against the government.

Senior Tory Douglas Hogg rose to speak at 14:42GMT.

The allied armies would be seen as liberators in Iraq.

The crisis had been brought about not by America, not by Britain but by the "murderous dictator in Baghdad".

But no serious alternative to military action had been proposed by opponents to war.

Mr Winnick acknowledged that war with Iraq would cause innocent casualties.

Saddam Hussein was exploiting international disunity now as he always had done.

He said he was a supporter of a sovereign Israeli state and at the same time he supported the establishment of a sovereign Palestinian state.

Mr Winnick argued that many opposed to military action now were also opposed to the 1991 Gulf War, and getting involved in Kosovo or in Afghanistan.

He began by expressing regret that Robin Cook had chosen to resign from the government.

Labour MP David Winnick rises to speak at 14:33GMT.

People in the Middle East will not shed a tear if Saddam Hussein is deposed, said Mr Hague.

"We should take action because it is in the national interest," said Mr Hague.

"I believe the prime minister and leader of the opposition stood on the right ground in advancing this policy today," said Mr Hague.

"There is a hint in some of the opposition to the government of appeasement," said Mr Hague.

Mr Hague said it would be a quick war if Saddam Hussein's regime collapsed as quickly as Mr Kennedy's speech had.

Former Tory leader William Hague rises to speak at 14:23GMT.

Action against Iraq would be "self defence", said Mr Howarth.

"Saddam must be tempted to recruit terrorists from wherever he can find them," said Mr Howarth.

"We need to act and we need to act with urgency" - Alan Howarth MP

Saddam Hussein would spin out the UN process for as long as possible, said Mr Howarth.

The position taken by France is "unrealistic", said Mr Howarth.

Labour MP Alan Howarth rises to speak at 14:12GMT.

There is "great anxiety" about hawkish elements in the US administration, Mr Kennedy said.

Mr Kennedy said he believed the impact of war under current circumstances would undermine the war against terrorism and breed future suicide bombers.

Mr Kennedy said the legitimacy of action against Iraq was under question.

Mr Kennedy said the "sudden embrace" of the Middle East peace process raised concerns in the current climate.

Speaker Michael Martin tells Tory MP Michael Fabricant to "calm yourself" as he heckles Mr Kennedy.

Mr Kennedy said the government's position had been consistent in pressing the US to revive the Middle East peace process.

The government deserves credit for persuading the US to go down the UN route, said Mr Kennedy.

Mr Kennedy said it was a source of "great regret" that the UN route had failed.

Mr Martin said Tory MPs were disrupting Mr Kennedy's speech.

Speaker Michael Martin is forced to intervene to tell MPs to allow Mr Kennedy to speak.

"We do not need moral lectures from the Conservative Party," said Mr Kennedy.

Mr Kennedy said the Tories claimed to be concerned about humanitarian issues but had not been so concerned during the crisis over Sierra Leone.

Mr Kennedy said the Tories had sold arms to Iraq while in government in the 1980s.

Iain Duncan Smith intervened to say the Liberal Democrat position was inconsistent.

A Tory frontbencher is told to withdraw a remark during Mr Kennedy's speech.

Mr Kennedy said no case for war has been made.

There is no contradiction between voicing concern about action in Iraq and supporting UK troops, Mr Kennedy said.

Mr Kennedy says he hopes the conflict will be carried out as swiftly as possible.

Liberal Democrat leader Charles Kennedy rises to speak at 13:52GMT.

Mr Kilfoyle said he believed containment of Saddam Hussein had worked.

Not having a second resolution puts the world on "very dangerous ground" and sets a "dangerous precedent", said Mr Kilfoyle.

"This act would be illegal, it would be immoral," said Mr Kilfoyle.

Mr Kilfoyle said a war in Iraq would only harden links between terrorists and states with weapons of mass destruction.

It is "idiotic" to fight a war against the "wrong enemy in the wrong place".

The government's case for action is made up of "value judgements and assertions", said Mr Kilfoyle.

Former Labour defence minister Peter Kilfoyle moves an amendment opposing the government's plans at 13:45GMT.

"We believe the prime minister is acting in the national interest today. This is why he is entitled to our support in doing the right thing," said Mr Duncan Smith.

Mr Duncan Smith urged those opposed to military action to "consider the consequences of turning back now".

Mr Duncan Smith said his party believed Israel must withdraw from the Occupied Territories and for the government to fully embrace this process.

"The majority of Saddam Hussein's victims have been Muslims," said Mr Duncan Smith.

"We accept that the prospect of further military action against Iraq is causing widespread anxiety among Muslims," said Mr Duncan Smith.

The Tory leader said the government needed to do more to address the humanitarian problems which would follow any conflict in Iraq.

Mr Duncan Smith acknowledged that Iraqi people "may have to suffer further" if military action is taken, but he said he hoped that would be short-lived and will end in peace and security for the region.

Anyone who under-estimates the threat to UK interests from Saddam is "living in cloud cuckoo land", said the Tory leader.

Mr Duncan Smith said Saddam is in breach "in personal terms" for those who have to suffer under his regime.

Saddam Hussein remains in breach of UN resolution 1441 and has "no intention whatsoever of relinquishing" his weapons, said Mr Duncan Smith.

"Saddam Hussein has the means and motive to pose a direct threat to our national security," said Mr Duncan Smith.

"Saddam Hussein is a tyrant who tortures and murders his own people and he poses a threat to the safety and stability of the Middle East," said Mr Duncan Smith.

The Liberal Democrats cannot argue that military action is both illegal "but somehow should be supported", said Mr Duncan Smith.

Mr Duncan Smith said: "I believe when the government does the right thing by the British people, it deserves the support of the House and particularly, the main opposition."

Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith rose to his feet at 13:23GMT, stressing that his party will vote with the government.

Mr Blair said: "I will not be party to such a course. This is not the time to falter. This is the time for this House to give a lead."

"To retreat now would put at hazard all that we hold dearest," said Mr Blair.

"Who will celebrate and who will weep if we pull our troops back now?" asked Mr Blair.

"If this House now demands that ... that British troops are pulled back, that we turn away from the point of reckoning - what then? Saddam will feel strengthened beyond measure," said Mr Blair.

People in Iraq are living in "perpetual fear" while "we in the UK take our freedom for granted", said Mr Blair.

"If we do act, we should do so with a clear conscience," said Mr Blair.

Mr Blair said the Turkish government was committed to not taking action against Kurdish administered areas.

Labour left-winger Jeremy Corbyn said there was a "serious fear" that the Turkish army will destroy Kurdish autonomy.

The oil revenues which people "falsely claim" the US and UK government want should be put in a trust fund for the Iraqi people, administered through the UN, said Mr Blair.

A new UN resolution was needed after any conflict for humanitarian efforts and for the future governance of Iraq, said Mr Blair.

Plans for a "road map" to Middle East peace are a major step forward, said Mr Blair.

Differences between some European countries and the US are "a tragedy", said Mr Blair.

There should not be "rivalry with the US, but partnership", said Mr Blair.

There has been a paralysis of the UN amid discord over Iraq, said Mr Blair.

"What we have witnessed is indeed the consequences of Europe and the United States dividing from each other," said Mr Blair.

Mr Blair said: "Iraq has been supporting terrorist groups".

It would be "worst course imaginable" for the UN to fail to act, Mr Blair went on.

The UN should be the "focus of diplomacy and action", said Mr Blair.

Labour veteran Tam Dalyell said action in Iraq could act as a "recruiting sergeant" for terrorist groups.

There is a "real and present danger" to the UK from terrorist groups using weapons like so-called "dirty bombs", said Mr Blair.

Links between regimes and terror groups are "loose but hardening", said Mr Blair.

Terrorist organisations "detest the freedom, democracy and tolerance that are the hallmarks of our way of life", said Mr Blair.

In the last two years around 20 different nations have suffered terrorist outrages, said Mr Blair.

The threat is "chaos and disorder" from regimes with weapons of mass destruction and terrorist organisations, said Mr Blair.

"The present must be judged without the benefit of hindsight," said Mr Blair, drawing comparisons with the 1930s.

Mr Blair said he was not suggesting that anyone opposed to military action was an appeaser or did not share the revulsion of Saddam's regime.

"It is dangerous if such regimes disbelieve us, dangerous if they think they can use our weakness, our hesitation ... against us," said Mr Blair.

Taking military action is "the only sure way to disarm Saddam," Mr Blair said, saying the UK's position had been consistent.

Mr Blair said: "France will vote no whatever the circumstances."

SNP former leader Alex Salmond said it was the UK, not the French, that had changed its position over the second resolution.

Mr Blair accepted that action should have been taken earlier.

Labour veteran David Winnick asked why action had not been taken earlier.

Mr Blair said diplomacy came to an end because France said it would block any resolution that contained an ultimatum.

At 12:55GMT Liberal Democrat MP Simon Hughes asked the prime minister why diplomacy should not continue for a little longer.

"Weakness in the face of the threat of a tyrant is the surest way not to peace but to conflict," said Mr Blair.

"The choice was action or no action at all," said Mr Blair.

Mr Blair replied by stressing that France's actions had blocked progress in the UN.

Labour MP Jon Owen Jones intervened at 12.51GMT to ask why the UK and US governments did not continue to pursue a second resolution.

The threat of force had led Saddam to allow the weapons inspectors back into Iraq, said Mr Blair.

The UK carried on pushing for a second resolution, Mr Blair went on, but said France had continued to object.

Agreement on the second resolution had been close last Monday, said Mr Blair - but then France said it would veto whatever the circumstances.

Mr Blair says he regrets the failure to secure a second UN resolution.

Ten thousand litres of anthrax are unaccounted for, said Mr Blair.

Iraq has not fully cooperated and denies it has any weapons of mass destruction, the prime minister said.

It is absurd for Saddam to claim he has now unilaterally disarmed, said Mr Blair.

Mr Blair said huge quantities of chemical and biological weapons were unaccounted for.

Mr Blair said Iraq had made dozens of false statements.

There has been a 12-year game between Saddam Hussein and the UN, Mr Blair said.

Mr Blair recapped on the history of the crisis.

He said it was a crucial time for the future of the UN and the European Union.

The outcome of this issue will now determine more than the fate of Iraq ... It will determine the way Britain and the world confronts the central security threat facing it, Mr Blair says.

Mr Blair acknowledges the scale of opposition to action in Iraq, including among his Cabinet.

"I believe passionately we must hold firm," he said.

He said it was a right denied to those in Iraq.

The prime minister opened by saying it is right for the House to debate the Iraq crisis.

Tony Blair rose to speak at 12:35GMT

Debate delayed while MPs hear 10-minute rule bill on pensioners.

Tony Blair will open the debate.

The debate begins at 12:30GMT Watch this space for key points.


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