This is the Faith Debate, a theological roundtable gab fest, a free-for-all forum with faith community leaders wrestling over the truth. In less than one half hour, learn more about what really matters than what most others learn in a week. The Faith Debate is on the World Wide Web at WFMD.com, keyword faith. Are you ready for the clash of ideas? Are you ready for the sound of freedom? Let's get ready to rumble in this corner, weighing in with a Master of Divinity from Reform Theological Seminary, the Faith Debate Master of Ceremonies. Troy Skinner. Thank you for listening again on another Sunday morning. Welcome to August by the way as you hear this as I'm recording this we're still in kind of lockdown protocols and so if you've been listening in recent weeks you've you know we're doing the lockdown tapes the lost lockdown tapes. There's a whole bunch of stuff that's been out there on social media and different platforms and stuff that I've been involved with over the past you know year plus now and I It's difficult to do a panel discussion show the way we like to do with all the restrictions that are in place at the moment that I'm saying these things. So I'm repurposing material that has been used in other forums and sharing it with you here on The Faith Debate. And so in this case, some of the things I might say could strike you as a little bit dated, but the principles and the concepts and things that were talked about, they are evergreen. They are lasting forever. Okay, so we can still learn a lot here. So we're going to be referencing some things that have to do with the election from 2020. This is leading up to the election and the kinds of things that people should be thinking about when they cast their vote as a biblically informed Christian. That's the context there. So we're going to hear what those thoughts were just before, right on the eve almost, of the election last year. But these are principles that can apply to all elections moving forward in your life. So I'd invite you to pay attention. And if you want to learn more about what I'm doing and some of these different platforms that I've just alluded to. You can find me online at, probably the easiest thing now is I have a website, HouseholdOfFaithInChrist.com. That's probably the easiest way to connect with the things that I'm involved with. HouseholdOfFaithInChrist.com. That's the name of the church that I pastor, and so that's the name of the website that we have. Anyway, so I'm gonna jump in here to this talk about, basically, can Christians vote Democrat? Can Christians vote Republican? What should we think about that sort of thing? So here we go. uh... relatively well-known well premium all the bible for a devoted bible reading christian is is can be well-known but there are some parts of the bible that stand out and this is on the top ten favorite parts of the bible but it's a very well-regarded favorite passage of scripture for a lot of people so they can be familiar with so what i read it's on one thirty nine if you're not familiar this is this is a a song but if you read in the original features tons of repetition for impact which I kind of like with the theme that we're in with with first john because the apostle john in the new testament he uses lots of repetition in his writing style too and so there's kind of a correlation and connection and style anyway between those and this is a psalm that talks about god's knowledge and god's presence and God's care, and how his care is precious to us, and our loyalty to God, and the need for humility before God. These are some of the big themes that are in this. And as I read this, I want you to consider, this is true for all of the Psalms, okay, but I'm reminding you now as I read this Psalm, Christ himself is the first singer of this Psalm. The Psalms are songs, and he, He, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, the Word of God, wrote this along with David, but David, moved by the Spirit, wrote this psalm. And so Jesus is the first singer of this psalm, in a sense. And it's a psalm, of course, about him as well. So he sings with us as we sing about him, okay? And I'm gonna start with verse one and read all the way through to the end. There's about 24 or so verses in this psalm. Oh Lord, you have searched me and you know me. You know when I sit and when I rise, you perceive my thoughts from afar. You discern my going out, my lying down. You are familiar with all my ways. Before a word is on my tongue, you know it completely, oh Lord. You hem me in, behind and before. You have laid your hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too lofty for me to attain. Where can I go from your spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there. If I make my bed in the depths, you are there. If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there your hand will guide me. Your right hand will hold me fast. If I say, surely the darkness will hide me and the light become night around me. Even the darkness will not be dark to you. The night will shine like the day for darkness is as light to you. For you created my inmost being, you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful, I know that full well. My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book. before one of them came to be. How precious to me are your thoughts, oh God. How vast is the sum of them. Were I to count them, they would outnumber the grains of sand. When I awake, I am still with you. Search me, oh God, and know my heart. Test me and know my anxious thoughts. See if there's any offensive way in me and lead me in the way everlasting. Now, if you were reading along, you noticed something. If you weren't reading along, you might not have noticed anything at all. You're like, yeah, I kind of know that psalm and the talk about the fearfully and wonderfully made, it's a common passage is cited in abortion discussions and that sort of thing. Like, yeah, Psalm 139, I love that psalm. Well, if you weren't reading along, you probably, If I were hearing this and I wasn't reading along, I might not have noticed it. I'm not rebuking you if you didn't notice this. But if you really, really, if you've committed disown the memory, some people have, you notice that I skipped over four verses. I skipped over verses 19 through 22. And so the reason I did that is the other verses, 24 verses here, I skipped over four of them. 18 of these verses are this beautiful, passionate, loving, touchy-feely, God's so good, and I feel the comfort of that, and I'm committed to living my life in such a way that expresses that sort of heartfelt attitude out of gratitude. And that's all good, and that's all true. The problem is it's not sufficient. We can't choose to leave out the parts of scripture that are hard truths. The fact that God loves us, and he's there with us, and he knows all things, there's great comfort in that. And so that's a truth that's not really hard for a Christian to embrace. But right now we're living in a climate, and I don't know if it's just right now, I think it's been historically true, but it feels particularly poignant right now, that we're living in a moment in church history when we only want the other 18 verses and we don't wanna focus on the four I left out. So let me read the four that I left out. If only you would slay the wicked, oh God. Away from me, you bloodthirsty men. They speak of you with evil intent. Your adversaries misuse your name. Do I not hate those who hate you, O Lord, and abhor those who rise up against you? I have nothing but hatred for them. I count them my enemies. We are in a situation right now, and I'm gonna use some of the big, more popular names. Just this week, John Piper, a very famous pastor in the Midwest, in the Minneapolis area, faithful man of God, one of my favorite preachers of all time, dynamic leader of men, so much to love about John Piper and his ministry. And yet, for some reason, this week, he posted an article, published an article, saying that he was going to abstain from voting for either candidate, uh, for president this year, because he didn't like basically the platform that one guy stood for and he didn't like the arrogance of the other. That's his right. And we'll talk about that in a minute, but we also have Tim Keller just this month. He published some things that, um, Didn't say that you should as a Christian vote for Joe Biden, but he basically gave you enough runway that you could get in that plane and have enough runway to take off on that mission and have no compunction about voting for the Democrat candidate. Was Tim Keller right to do that? And Phil Vischer, I just posted a video about this actually today on my Facebook page, Phil Vischer put out a video talking about abortion. And we might think as Christians that the Republicans have always been right about the abortion question, but maybe that's not so. So if you wanna vote for, maybe the gist of it is if you wanna vote for the Democrats, maybe that's okay. Is Phil Vischer right? It sounds winsome. It sounds loving. It sounds gracious. But there is a spiritual war that we can feel in a visceral way as a culture war right now, and we've gotta make some decisions. And so we're gonna spend some time in this family meeting, having a discussion, and if you have comments or questions you wanna share in the comment section, we'll try to address those during this time together. What is a Christian to do? And so I've made myself a few notes so I wouldn't forget any important things that we might wanna talk about. Let's start with our current president, Donald Trump. Donald Trump is famous, or you could even argue infamous, for name-calling, for that crass statement. He was caught on tape. He didn't realize he was on mic and grabbing women where you're not supposed to be grabbing them. And he's been called a buffoon or a clown. He is clearly a man with a big ego. You could even argue that he demonstrates that he can be rather egotistical. He's very bombastic and brash. Now, some people love that about him, but a lot of Christians recoil from that sort of a persona. He too often, I would agree with this, that he too often lacks sufficient nuance in some of the things that he says. He blurts out sometimes half-baked or mistaken ideas, and then later on he has to try to walk it back or explain it or maybe just abandon the idea completely. He insults people. He can be vindictive when people attack him. He's been married three times. He's admitted that he's cheated on his wives. I mean, there's a lot there not to like. Joe Biden, the Democratic candidate, former vice president of the United States. He's pristine, right? He's as white as the wind driven snow. Well, Joe Biden during his nearly 50 years in public office is on record showing a glowing support for white supremacists who were his colleagues as politicians. Joe Biden has this creepy habit, it would seem, of sniffing women's hair and touching little girls in odds, inappropriate ways. He has demonstrated, particularly this year, we've seen it a lot, a volatile, unpredictable temper. He's gotten into arguments with people that he's trying to persuade them to vote for him, and yet he practically challenges them in fistfights. He called a woman a dog-faced pony soldier. And, uh, you know, now we have all these stories with reasons to believe that he abused his power as vice president and that he has allowed, or perhaps even enabled, uh, relatives of his to profit, uh, as he served in high public office and that that profit might've come at the expense of the taxpayers. So he's got problems. Neither man is perfect. If you're going to say we can only vote for somebody who's got perfect, impeccable character or something very close to it, you might have to agree with John Piper and say, I'm not gonna vote for either one of these guys. And if you're gonna say, well, Trump's worse than Biden. Well, maybe on style because Joe Biden's style is a little more palatable based on our cultural norms. And so we as Christians would have to grant that to somebody who wants to make that point. But is that what this is about? Let's say, okay, we have to admit, at some level, Joe Biden is kind of a jerk, right? I mean, in the debate, he referred to the sitting president of the United States as a clown and a liar, totally diminishing the office of the president on an international stage, because the whole world is watching that debate. So that's not an indication of a strong character. But let's just say that, on the whole, Joe Biden is only half the jerk that Donald Trump is. Donald Trump is twice the jerk, three times the jerk that Joe Biden is, okay? Whatever. Let's say for the sake of argument that that's true. Is that what Christians primarily should be thinking about and worrying about? Now, if the character is so bad that it precludes someone from being even considered for the president, You can have knockout blows. If somebody is so heinous and so evil and so bad, you say, you know what? I don't care what they stand for. Their character is so bad. They can't be president. And I would argue as bad as the record for Joe Biden and as bad as the record for Donald Trump might be, I think both of them passed that test. They don't get an A. I'm not sure they get a B. But they passed the test. I think that they have a right to be on the ballot and people have a right to consider them for president. So what are we to do? What are we to do? In this particular case, it's true every year, but in this particular case, I would argue more than ever, we're not voting for men. We're voting for ideas. We're voting for policies. We are voting for the trajectory and the future of this nation and the ability for Christians to express themselves freely in their worship and to try to advance positive change for the culture from a biblical perspective. which platform of ideas and policies and which track record of the men who were involved is going to best help us to do that. And I'm going to, I'm going to show my hand right now and I'm going to anger a lot of people. You're probably already sensing where I'm going, but I'm going to anger some people. And I would just ask you to hang in there and understand why I'm going to say what I'm right now going to say. Someone who is a Christ follower does not have to vote for Donald Trump. but someone who is a Christ follower cannot vote for anybody on the Democratic ticket. Anybody involved with the Democratic party, you can't. That's offensive, I know. To some people watching this, hearing my voice, that's offensive. Let's walk through why I say that's the case from the Bible, because that's all we really need to be caring about as Christians. What does God say? What would the Bible instruct us to do? It's not about our mere opinion, it's trying to best determine what is God's opinion. So, we have one candidate who favors higher taxes, and by this I mean taking money by force from one person so that you can give it to another person. One candidate advocates for more government regulation which Believe it or not, it hurts the working poor. It limits the number of jobs available for the working poor. One takes positions for a weaker military open borders, which puts all of the citizens at risk. One believes in a living constitution, which means that the words on the page don't mean what the words on the page mean. One is for extended abortion rights, quote unquote, which gives sanction to the painful slaughter of innocent babies. And one also agrees with restrictions on freedom of religion, the freedom to assemble and to worship as the Bible would instruct, and also has hostility towards Israel. And these are things that Christians should not abide. Those half a dozen or so, whatever it was I just listed, all of those would be the position of the Democratic Party. Christians cannot support those policies. Those of us who are in Christ are called by God. to be exiles on earth. So we are sojourners, right? Our citizenship is in heaven, but at the same time, they're simultaneously to seek the welfare of the city, to seek the welfare of the nation within which we live. And so are those policies, the kinds of things that are going to bring welfare to the city? The Bible tells us no, and we don't want to get caught in the, uh, absolute mindset of being single issue voters. However, I once worked for a man who was one of my better bosses, and he talked about his hiring practices, and he was a big believer in hiring the right person for the right role, and he didn't worry as much about their resume, their skill set. He thought you could teach somebody skills, you can give them experience, but you want to identify their talent, and if they have the right amount of talent for the right job that you have open, you hire them. The person who has the most talent for the job is who you hire, hands down, no questions asked, accept. if there was what he called a knockout blow. So you can have somebody that on the talent scale, I don't know, one to 10 talent scale, their talent level for the job you're looking to fill is a nine and somebody else is a six, you're clearly gonna hire the nine, right? Unless the nine has something that you can't overcome. I don't care how talented they are, how wonderful you might think they are for the job, there's something that you cannot hire them for. That's not being single-issue voter. I just ran a whole bunch of issues. There's a lot of issues that the Democratic Party stands for that Christians cannot get behind. But even if that weren't true, the killing of innocent little girls and little boys is a knockout blow by itself. You cannot, as a Christian, support the killing of innocent people. And it's even worse than that. It's supporting the killing of innocent people and forcing you to pay for it. Christians cannot abide that. Doesn't make you a single issue voter, but it does help you to recognize that's a knockout blow. To put this in historical terms, would it be okay to vote for Joseph Stalin because the trains ran on time and, uh, and, and he looked like a, a leader and he accomplished some good social programs, even though he killed tens of millions of people. Clearly not right. I mean, it's a cliche, but you wouldn't vote for Hitler because right. He's not put in contemporary terms. Should we vote for a KKK leader? Should David Duke, if you were on the ballot, should a Christian vote for David Duke? Of course not. Well, why not? Why do I say of course not? Because David Duke stands for hate. He stands for things that are anti-God, anti-Bible, anti-Jesus Christ. And that's what the Democratic Party has become. Now, if you're a lifelong Democrat and you haven't been paying close attention, the Democratic Party has shifted over years. They're not what they used to be. Now, I will say the Democratic Party has been a problem for a long time, but not like this. There is something afresh here. And so I'm telling you, doesn't mean you have to vote for the Republican, but you cannot, in good conscience, as a faithful Christian, vote for the Democrat. That's a hard thing to hear, right? If you were a member of my church and I were your pastor, I'd be talking to you about this directly. And if you said, well, I always voted Democrat and I'm voting Democrat this time. And I would walk through all the reasons why you can't and say, you can't do that. You'd be sitting against God to do so. You say, I don't care, I'm gonna do it anyway. We would institute Matthew 18. We would walk you through the steps of church discipline. That's how serious I believe this is for Christians. And that's a hard thing. I'm not making friends right now, but you know what? I'm long past caring. I'm not worried about making friends. I'm worried about being obedient and faithful to my maker. And if you're a believer and a follower of Christ, that should be the only thing you care about too. If you want practical proof of that, look at the cities and states that have been ruled by democratic policies for a generation and a half now, and the poor are not taken care of there. So that's a practical proof, if you will. But biblically speaking, The role of government, the government is given the power of the sword. And what are they to do with that sword? They are to execute retributive judgment on those who do bad things. That's why we can have capital punishment, and they can go after the bad guys. And they can also defend us from the bad guys who are trying to invade our country. So we should have a military, we should have law enforcement, and we should have judges. That is the government. The government's role is to judge good from evil and to punish the evildoer. And if that evildoer happens from outside our borders, it's to wage a war against those who are trying to infringe upon our God-given rights in this country. That is the role of government. And that is it. Government is not supposed to take care of the poor and the needy. That's not to say that conservatives, like myself, don't believe in taking care of the needy, but the person who's supposed to take, the Bible says is responsible for charity and mercy and generosity. It's the individual, the family, the church. And so the government is trying to take over the responsibility of the church, the family, and the individual. And they weren't designed for that, and they do a miserable job of it as a result. That's not what they were made for. And then they've made us lazy in our giving. And you can see it. The more you buy into big government, the less generous you are out of your own pocket. They've done research on this, and it's not even close. Those who are registered Democrats give a microscopic percentage to charity compared to those that are registered Republican. In raw dollars, it's not close, and in percentage of income and wealth, it's not close, because those that understand it's not for the government to do, it's for me to do. There's something else to think about. In the Old Testament, God was the king of the Israelites. The nation of Israel, he rescues them out of Egypt, delivers them to the promised land, and he was to serve as their king. But they rebelled against him as king over and over again. They even put God on trial at one point. They were grumbling so horribly. So, they then say, we want to have a king like the other nations around us. And God realizes what they're saying. What they're saying is, we're rejecting you as king. We want a human king like these other nations. And God's like, okay, fine. You want a king? You can have a king like the other nations. And just like those other nations, they are going to oppress you. They're going to conscript you into military service, and they are going to oppressively tax you. They're gonna be so oppressive in their taxation that they're gonna put themselves in my place, and they're gonna tax you as much as I ask of you. I, as your creator God, am saying that you need to give me back 10% of what I'm giving you, and these oppressive kings, they're gonna put themselves in the place that is mine, and they're gonna demand from you 10%. And that 10% is a curse from God and a sign of oppression. And we're going to have to pause there. I'll pick up probably mid-thought next week on the show. We're running out of time here. Thanks so much for listening. We're going to continue with our thoughts about how Christians should think about their voting. And as I mentioned in what you just heard, I know I'm not making a lot of friends. I'm trying to get you to think, and particularly if you're a Christian, to start thinking biblically about these sorts of questions. And how should you vote? Does it matter? Does it really matter which party you support? And as you've heard, I'm arguing that it does very much so matter. So at least be thinking about it and be challenged by these sorts of things and understand that if you have a different opinion, I don't hate you. I'm just trying to persuade you to think differently. So if you think differently than me, please don't hate me. You can take it upon yourself if you like to try to persuade me to think differently if you like. Anyway, till next week. Thanks so much for listening. Find us online at WFMD.com. Also, you can find me personally online at HouseholdofFaithinChrist.com. Till next week, 167 and a half hours from right now. Thanks for listening and God bless.