Hebrews chapter 13. I've been meditating on verse 17 for the message today, and I hope you'll be able to enter in with me. The Word of God says, this is God speaking, Obey those who rule over you and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls as those who must give account or who will give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you. In 1985, 40 years ago, I was ordained as an elder in a church. I was 25 years old. Is that too young? It's awfully young, isn't it? I didn't ordain myself. I didn't even ask to be ordained. It was elders above me in the church that set me apart in that way. So I've served for almost 40 years. It was actually September 1st. that I was ordained in 1985, but for 40 years I've served in this capacity as an elder, 26 of those here at Community Baptist Church. A number of you have served in relationship with elders. For as long as I've been an elder perhaps, some of you longer than that. Some of you are relatively new in this relationship, and that is what it is. And that's what I'm going to be hoping to get that point across here in this message. It is a relationship. And others of you here today have not yet entered into this functional church relationship, you attend church, you're But you haven't yet actually committed yourself in that kind of relationship. I'm hoping that this message is going to be of value to all of us. It's certainly been a healthy thing for my soul to meditate upon the responsibility that I bear under Christ in relationship to you as members of Community Baptist Church, and I hope it will be a healthy exercise for you this morning to consider your responsibility in that relationship. It goes both ways, doesn't it? And that's very clear in the text that is before us. The fundamental basis for our relationship is not church membership. The fundamental basis of our relationship is our union that we have together in Christ. That's first. That's foremost. That's priority. In other words, we are brothers and sisters. We are brethren in Christ before anything else. And if we don't start there in our thoughts toward one another, we're going to attempt to relate on a purely fleshly, natural level like the world. And we're probably not going to be much different from the world in our relationships. But being in Christ changes everything. And being in Christ and being joined together as members of this local church, we have a relationship and it's expressed in our text. The leaders that are referred to here, those who rule over you, these leaders in view are not just teachers in the assembly who are setting forth information. But these are pastors. These are those who carry a God-given burden of responsibility for your spiritual well-being. And to whom you are responsible to relate well. It's very specific. Now there is a responsibility that you and I have toward one another as brothers and sisters as we engage with one another. And that's a whole other subject to deal with. And the Scripture says a lot about that. But here it's specific. It's the relationship between those who are appointed as the leaders and the church or the church to them. And so in this message, I'm not going to be defending church membership. But I'm assuming that to be the order established by Christ through His apostles for this New Testament age. And if you struggle with that concept of church membership, then we can have a discussion about that at another time. But I am assuming that. The relationship described in our text is the relationship that should be experienced by every child of God. And it is worked out in local churches. Think about this. Elders are not responsible to care for all believers everywhere. Elders have the responsibility to care for those that the Holy Spirit is placed under their care, right? And you can read that in places like Acts 20, verse 28. Where Paul speaks to the elders at Ephesus and says that very thing, he doesn't say shepherd or care for all of the believers everywhere, but those whom the Holy Ghost has placed you Over. Like a husband is not responsible for all women. Yeah, or parents for all children, hallelujah. That's a hard task to parent your children, right? And it's hard enough to take care of your own. You don't need to be trying to take care of everyone else's. You haven't been given that responsibility. So it is in reference to the church and elders. We have the responsibility to care for those that God has given to us in that relationship. And in this text, I suppose you've noticed that the exhortation really is directed primarily to the church in relation to its leaders, or I'm referring, using the word elders here. But the message really is for both. And there is something to be said to both elders as well as the church in relationship to elders, because we are in a relationship and this is where I'm leading. Ultimately, I want to get to this point. We are in a relationship that should result in our joy. As a church. And the text is sort of comes across in a bit of a negative way. But as when we get to that point in the message, I think hopefully you'll be able to see that the point isn't simply negativity. The point is very positive. But let's consider first the elders relationship to you, the church elders have a God given responsibility. This is very we're going to be confined most most of our thoughts to what we see here in this verse. We're not going to be chasing all over scripture, though I will make a couple of references. But what does he say? about these elders, he says, obey those who rule over you. So these are ones who are given the responsibility to rule over you. Well, this was mentioned back in verse seven, remember those who rule over you, who are they? Those who have spoken the word of God to you, whose faith follow considering the outcome of their conduct. And then in verse 20, in verse 24, greet all those who rule over you and all the saints. Those from Italy, greet you. This word, to rule over, points to a position of authority. Now, we are naturally wired to cringe at that whole idea of authority. We do not want to engage with an idea of someone else having anything called authority over us. And so we cringe when we hear that. But you need to understand what this Word is expressing. This is not an absolute authority. But this is an authority under Christ and His Word. This authority comes from above. Just like your authority is apparent. It comes from above. It's not your authority. You don't establish that. God does. Or any other sphere of authority in God's world. He establishes that. And elders exercise rule over you as they lead or govern under the rule of Christ. Which, I remind you, is a rule of perfect love. Always for his people's good. And that's one of the reasons why Peter would say, not to the elders, not lording it over, but serving. Not for destruction, but for edification. This is the way Paul expressed it in 2 Corinthians chapter 10 and verse 8. He said, for even if I should boast somewhat more about our authority. So he's talking about authority here. Which the Lord gave us for what purpose? For edification and not for your destruction. In fact, in that same chapter, Paul begins the chapter in 2 Corinthians 10 with these words that I hear for myself. He says, Now I, Paul, myself am pleading with you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ. There's the rule right there. A rule like Christ that is governed by a spirit of meekness and gentleness. Elders are not ruling well who control and dominate and lose the spirit of a servant who loves the Lord and is moved by love for his people. And so the rule in view here in our text is not just teaching what is true with some sort of authoritative manner or Or even just blasting you with what is right under Christ. But it is the life of the man, the life of the men. We are demonstrating, not just speaking, but demonstrating. We're living it out. There ought to be coming through us this spirit of meekness and gentleness in our exercise of authority. The fact is you ought to be able to imitate your leader's life and truly end up nearer to Christ. So Paul in 1 Corinthians 11 verse 1 said, imitate me just as I also imitate Christ. The other thing Paul Well, you know who I think wrote Hebrews, right? Says here in verse 17, for they watch out for your souls. And please don't lose. Don't miss the message if you disagree that Paul wrote. It's OK. That's a that's not something to contend over. For they watch out for your souls. Not only do they exercise this rule over you, they are watching out for your souls. And this is the reason that he gives for responding well to them. He says, four, obey those who rule over you and be submissive. Four, because they watch out for your souls. Their interest is your spiritual well-being. This is the burden that they carry. A godly elder is not interested in controlling your lives. And by the way, I have not been godly all my life. I have not exercised my position of authority well at times in my life. Which might speak to the issue of becoming an elder at 25. You know, a time when I knew everything. And I knew how to set people straight, and it was to deal harshly and quickly. And conforming everyone in the congregation with what I thought was right. That's not an elder. That's not the kind of elder that the Spirit of Christ wants in His church. not controlling your lives, but with alertness and concern and care, observing the condition of your never-dying souls. What is going on with you? What's going on with you in your relationship to God? And what a responsibility this is. You see, godly elders want you to persevere in your relationship to Christ And his word, especially to know him in the light of the new covenant. That's what dominates the message of Hebrews, isn't it? And so they want to cultivate with you, not just in you, but with you together and love in your soul for Christ and a life that reflects that love. They want to steer your soul away from the burdensome spirit of legalism, which we heard some of that in the last hour. Not the spirit of legalism, but away from the spirit of legalism. Go backwards. Go back to Sinai. The writer of Hebrews is saying, no, You need to go to Mount Zion. You need your mind and heart set upon Christ. You need to come to the law through Christ. Or some of our older brethren would say, we need to receive the law through the heart and hands of Christ. And you see that expressed in the New Testament. But we also want to help to steer our brethren away from unbelief, because we know that unbelief is going to move you away from the living God. And when we see that, it's a heavy thing for us to say. You see, godly elders want you to enjoy the full assurance of faith in Christ. Isn't that what chapter 10 of Hebrews spoke of? A full assurance of faith. That's what we desire. Not to always preach in such a way where we're trying to get you to question your faith. It's like we have succeeded when we have caused people to squirm and wonder whether they have a relationship with God in Christ or not. No. That's not watching over souls properly. The position of elders in the church is not a role for power-hungry, authority-abusing wolves. I don't know if I said this publicly, but I heard it recently and it really rang true in my mind, and it was a unique way of saying it, that wolves are not interested in sheep food. Wolves are interested in sheep. Eating, devouring the sheep. They're not interested in feeding and caring. And so this relationship that exists from elders to within the church is guided by the love of Christ in our souls. It must be guided by the love of Christ in our souls. And you'll notice He says that elders are accountable. We're not. You know, sometimes you think of elders are sort of like, you know, the top of the authority chain. No, they're not. We are under Christ, just like you are under Christ, who are we accountable to? He says, for they watch out for your souls as those who must give account or who will give account. And we are accountable to the chief shepherd. Peter uses that expression in 1 Peter 5 when he talks about the under-shepherds, those who will pastor and care, the elders. He says, when your chief shepherd comes, you're going to have to answer. And I believe we answer even in this life. Beloved, I must never forget this. As I as I deal with you or additional elders who are added here at Community Baptist Church must never forget this. We are not on our own. We're not just doing our own thing. We are accountable to Jesus for our care for you. We're accountable for what we teach, for what we teach and how we teach it. We're accountable for what we emphasize. We're accountable for how we respond to indicators of your spiritual decline. Are we even in tune with what's going on in the lives that make up the church? how we lead and watch for your soul's good. We're going to have to give an account of that and the effect that our attitude and ministry has upon you. I think about that. I think about that. And that's one of the prayers that I have, is I want the Spirit of Christ to be so working in me that my effect upon you will be good and godly. But hear this. I can't change you. No elder can change you. And no elder is ultimately responsible to change you. I used to live under that burden. Early on in my eldering life, I lived with the thought that I was going to have to answer for everything that you did or didn't do. As if I had the power to so control you so that I was going to have to stand in your stead and give an account for your attitude and your actions. That's not true. But I will answer to God, to Christ, for how I sought to shepherd you by prayer, preaching, warning, counsel, and example. And so that is important. How how I relate to you is important. But here in this text, the emphasis is really more upon you. You need to consider yourself as members of this church, what is your relationship to your leaders, what is your response, what is your attitude? He uses two words, obey. And be submissive. Obey and be submissive. These are the imperatives in the verse. This is the instruction. This is He speaking to you. Your response to elders matters to God. Do you believe that? Your response to elders matters to Christ. The word obey. It's a word that has at its root this idea of being persuaded. In fact, it's translated that way, being persuaded or an idea of trust. It's not blind obedience, but it's a decision that you make. Because you are persuaded that your elders are trustworthy. It's not that you're persuaded that you agree with everything the elder says and does. It's that you are persuaded that he is trustworthy. Unless your elders clearly lead you away from Christ in the new covenant, which is the repeated emphasis of Hebrews. You determined in your heart, you choose to obey, you're going to follow their lead. You're going to do that because you trust their heart of care for you. And because you trust their heart of care for you, your first response is not going to be to resist, but to to follow. You have confidence that they will speak God's truth to you and that they're going to make application for the good of your soul. Therefore, you heed their instruction, you heed their counsel. Again, remember, this isn't Blind obedience. It isn't like a robot. OK, show me where to go, Elder, and I'll go. Tell me what to do, Elder. Tell me what to believe and I'll believe. That's not the point. But godly elders lead with humility. It was interesting as I was reading in Acts chapter 20 earlier in the week, Paul was talking about his ministry among the Ephesians and he says, serving with all humility. He was describing His service, serving with all humility. Stop me in my tracks. Oh, wow, what a statement to make. Can I say that? Serving with all... Would I say that? I would almost be afraid to say that. But that is my desire. That's my prayer. It's my constant prayer. that God would work that in me, that I might be able to serve, that I might be able to lead with humility, which means I'm going to be careful to represent God and His Word properly so that the positive response of those under my care, which is you in this church, that the positive response that is commanded here is actually warranted. not demanded simply because of a position. In other words, just because I'm in this position, you must obey. You must. Rather, it's kind of like a husband and wife, you know. The Bible uses the word obey in reference to a from a wife to a husband, right? But husband, shouldn't you be leading in such a way that your wife gladly follows, your wife gladly surrenders? It's not a drudgery. It's not hard. So the burden in one sense is upon me or upon those who are elders to in some ways make it a desirable thing. My leadership should not make obedience difficult. He uses the word submissive, be submissive. This is the only time this Greek word here is used in the New Testament, and it pictures a combatant laying down his arms. In other words, there's a resistance, it's a war term, there's a resistance going on, but then there is one who makes a decision to no longer resist. Obey those who rule over you and be submissive. Yield yourself to your leaders. If your elders are trustworthy, why wouldn't you? Why would you resist if your elders are leading you in the way of Christ? Why would you not be supportive? And by the way, if they're not, and it's very possible that their elders who are not, there are ways to deal with that. Right. 1 Timothy chapter 5 verses 19 and 20, Paul gives instruction there that if there is an elder who is sinning, there's a way to deal with it. Two or three witnesses actually confront the elder. And actually, if there's no repentance, there is an exposure of that sin. Elders are not above being exposed. Remember, it's not an absolute authority. And if it's not possible, if you're in a church and it's not possible for the elders to be exposed and there is something that truly is a contradiction to the Word of God, then you have the responsibility, I would say, to find a church where you do have elders who are leading in a godly, biblical, Christ-honoring way. The Spirit here is addressing your response and the attitude in your response. He's not he's not talking about a huffy compliance. OK, I'll do it, you know, like the kid who's. Who's standing on the outside, but sitting on the inside. And, you know, there's there's an appearance of of obedience, but there really is not a submission, there's not a yielded spirit. And it's important that I say this, that you're not wrong to sincerely question your elders teaching or decisions. That is not resistance, that is not rebellion. You're wrong to do so with a spirit of contention, you're wrong to do so with a spirit of strife, a spirit of debate motivated by a spirit of arrogance, and that's something that all of us need to check our spirit on, don't we? We know how frequently that's condemned. Because it's ugly, it disturbs the peace, it ruins the joy. Elders, in fact, should welcome healthy discussion. It's a way by which we grow. Elders don't know everything. At 65 years or 40 years into this thing, I'm still learning. I'm still growing. And may I suggest that those of you who are 20 or 30 years behind me, don't think that you have learned everything and don't think that it's your responsibility to correct. How about taking an attitude of, can I discuss this? Can we talk about this together? Maybe. That God has taught your elder or elder something that you haven't yet seen. And it can also be vice versa. Right? That's possible. But an attitude of resistance or rebellion engenders grief. Instead of joy that should characterize the church. So church, please hear me here. It should matter to you how how you respond to your elders, it should matter to you how your response affects your leaders as they care for you. It should matter to you. Does it? And you can argue, well, that's not my problem. Well, apparently, the Spirit of God indicates differently. It is a responsibility that you carry. In fact, he says, let them do so. Let them. The leaders in their ministry, in their ministry of watching out for your soul, their ministry of giving an account, let them do so with joy and not with grief. Let them watch out for you and give account with joy. Your response and attitude toward your elders' leadership and care affects them one way or another. One way or another. There's either joy or there is grief. Now this may sound like a broken record here, but it needs to be said, this does not mean you are to be mere yes-men and women. If elders grieve for the wrong reason, that's on them. Again, elders are not above the possibility of error here in the relationship. But your spirit should be supportive of your leaders, even when you may disagree. They are watch if you if you if you if you if you trust that this is true and if and if you don't trust that this is true again, something has to change. Something needs to change. But if you if you trust that they are watching for your soul and giving account to God for you in a sincere, honest. Way with a heart of love for you. They're doing it either with joy or with grief. There's either delight in their soul, like the Apostle John in 3 John says, I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. No greater joy. And to be able to go in prayer on behalf of those who are responding to the Word, not those who are walking perfectly, who are doing everything right, but those who are responding with a desire. And there's not that feeling of resistance. Oh, there's joy. There's delight. But oh, there's grief. The expressions of groaning. That's what the word grief here indicates. A heaviness of spirit. Where the elder or elders are in their prayer, they're crying out to God, what more can I do? What more can I say? He or she is just not responding. God is hearing your name from your elders in one way or another as we pray, OK? What's the goal of this? What's the goal of this, meaning our relationship? The goal of our relationship in this text is the good of the church. So he says, let them do so with joy and not with grief. for that would be unprofitable for you. Flip that around, or I say conversely, to watch out for you and to give account with joy would be profitable. Profitable. It would be advantageous. joy or grief in the eldership, in relating with church members, it affects the church. That is a plural there when he says, for that would be unprofitable for you. Yes, there is the individual application to you as an individual, but it is to you collectively. It is not advantageous for you if you are one that is the source or the cause of the grief. But brothers and sisters, it actually affects the whole church. And it also affects the whole church when you are the cause of the joy. But the source of our joy, when we talk about joy, the source of our joy ultimately is Christ and Christ alone. But this is the experience of that joy in the Christian life and in the church. And it can be affected by relationships. and the way that we're responding to one another. That can be more broadly applied, but here it's specifically being applied to you and your relationship to your elder or elders. Grief due to an insubordinate and unsubmissive, resistant spirit I can tell you by my own experience, it is a weight upon an elder. It is a heavy weight upon an elder. And I would say that it is an unnecessary weight. It doesn't have to be that way. And sometimes elders have to fight this. And elders have to discern, is this something that's in me and on me because of my attitude and my spirit? And so that's my end of the deal. But on your end, you need to be asking, search me, O Lord. I don't want to be the cause of this. I don't want to hurt your church with this kind of Spirit. It's unnecessary. But I can tell you that when it exists, it obstructs ministry. It obstructs the effective ministry of the Word. It can even obstruct the public ministry of the Word. Can you see why he would say that's unprofitable for you? If there's an obstruction? The advantage that you would otherwise have is affected negatively. And so this grieving spirit gets in the way of joy. And joy should fill the assembly of the saints. And we should fight against anything that's getting in the way of that, that's an obstruction to that. It benefits you. Church, it benefits you individually. It benefits us together when every member relates to the leadership with a proper attitude in response to our care and ministry to you. Now, listen, this is not psychology. This is God's this is his communication to us. He's speaking this to us for our good. He's benefiting us by saying these things. Do you get that? Can you receive it that way? Mr. Piper was preaching a message to a church that was installing new elders in their church. And this is what he said. And he was I think he was preaching from this verse. This is what he said. People. Speaking to the church. People, submit to their watch care in such a way that they might do it not with groaning, but with joy. People, seek the joy of your pastors. Respond to them. Work with them. so as to minimize their groaning. Groaning is going to exist. It's just part of the ministry. But minimize their groaning and maximize their joy. Let them do this with joy, he quotes verse 17. And then he said, seek their joy for the sake of your joy. Seek their joy for the sake of your joy. There is an effect that elders have on the church, just like there's an effect that you have upon the church. But the position of the elder is in a leadership position and his countenance, his spirit, his life has an impact. It's important that I live my life in such a way that I seek to overcome those things which would turn my countenance into a shape that hinders joy in the church. The way I say things, the way I interact with you. And brethren, you've seen me, haven't you? And this is I've this has been a burden to me, but I know this is not exactly what this verse is talking about, but this is an application I make to myself. Because you have been on the receiving end of some heavy burdens that I've had to bear that have nothing to do with you. Is that true? In the last year, it's happened. And I've said to the Lord, would you let me for the rest of my life live and and my spirit be in such a way that that would never happen again, that this church would not have to ever go through that again. I don't want to have to go through it again. But I know it affects you. And you've been gracious and kind and long suffering to me. And I want to be that way towards you, but I don't want to be. the cause of the heaviness that I'm sure has been the case a number of times in our life together. I want there to be elders in this church who are, as Paul said in 2 Corinthians 1, verse 24, who are not controlling, dominating your faith, but are helpers, helpers, helpers of your joy. And this joy, beloved, is in our fellowship together with our Father and our Son. That's the foundation. That's the root. That's where we find the fundamental foundation of that joy. And when we get our eyes off of Him and onto other things, even over various nuances of the way we may say things, it has a way of working like a worm to generate grief and burdens, not only in elders, but also in the church. If our spirits are weighed down by unhealthy relationships between, here in the context we're thinking of, it can happen with any relationships, but here in the relationships between members and the eldership, then you know as well as I that our joy will be minimized. We may not lose it altogether, but it will be minimized and we could lose it, but it will be minimized. And the worst part about that is that our representation of Christ in this world is going to be hindered. There are people who have left Community Baptist Church years ago, not talking about recent times, who have left, who grew up in this church, who left this church. And what they remember is the people in that church couldn't get along. And most of it was over doctrinal and practical kind of sparring and contending, striving. And I would like to defend, I would say, well, you need to understand, you know, we're defenders of the faith and we have to block, you know, but that should pain us at least to some degree. I understand unregenerate minds are going to judge things. without the clarity of the light of truth. I get that. So there can be some unjust kinds of criticisms. But how about let's make sure it's unjust. Right? Let's make sure it's really unjust. Let's be living our lives in a relationship that is truly honoring to Christ. So brethren, As I close here, just keep this in mind. The church is not elder or elders versus people. It's not me or us versus them. Right? But it's all of us, every single member, functioning in the Spirit according to our place in the body. By the grace of God, with the help of His Spirit, I want to lead you more and more in the way of Christ. I want to lead you more and more to Him. And if I'm successful, I'm successful. If that happens, you're going to come into a relationship with the Father that's just going to expand and explode and be incredibly good. And I want it to happen both by teaching and example. And I hope that you will determine afresh, maybe today, just a fresh resolve in your spirit. Maybe even think about how things have been. But have a fresh resolve in your spirit to have that relationship of obedience as it's been explained and submission. to my efforts, to the efforts of other elders who may be appointed to serve among us. The result of this kind of relationship is joy, not grief. And that's a great benefit to all of us. And it reflects so well. And this is the bigger issue. It reflects so well upon our God and our Savior, Jesus Christ, right? And that's what's most significant. Two questions before I pray. Number one, what is your, church members, what is your relationship like with your elder? What is your relationship like with your elder? And then the second, is to those of you, if you're in Christ, but you haven't yet committed in a church relationship with elders. My question to you is, what's preventing you? What's stopping you?