All right, so we're still, I think we kind of finished up seven last week. But I'm going to look at seven, eight, nine, and 10. Maybe we're at eight. Is that where we are? Well, I'm gonna read eight, nine, and 10, and then I'll start back at seven, and then jump around to eight. So, section eight, this is chapter 26, I'm sorry. Chapter 26, section eight. A local church, gathered and fully organized according to the mind of Christ, consists of officers and members. The officers appointed by Christ are overseers or elders and deacons. They are to be chosen and set apart by the church, called and gathered in this way for the distinctive purpose of administering ordinances and for carrying out any other power or duty Christ entrusts them with or calls them to. This pattern is to be continued to the end of the age. Christ has appointed the way to call someone prepared and gifted by the Holy Spirit to the office of overseer or elder in a church. And notice they keep using all those terms interchangeably, overseer, bishop, elder, and they'll also use pastor by the end of this chapter for the same office. This elder, overseer, pastor must be chosen by the collective vote of the church itself. He must then be solemnly set apart by fasting and prayer, the body of elders, of the church must lay hands on them if there are any already in place. A deacon must be chosen by the same kind of vote, set apart by prayer, laying of hands as well. The work of pastors is to give constant attention to the service of Christ and his churches in the ministry of the word and prayer. They are to watch over the souls of church members as those who must give an account to Christ. The churches to whom they minister must not only give them all due respect, but also must share with them from all their good things according to their ability. They must do this so their pastor may have a comfortable living without having to be entangled in secular matters and so they can show hospitality to others. This is required by the law of nature and by explicit command of our Lord Jesus who has ordained that those who preach the gospel should earn their living by the gospel. So I want to stop there because we'll be lucky to get through. There's just so much stuff packed in here. But when you go back to chapter seven, we're really all the way back to, I say chapter seven, I meant section seven. We're talking about the mind of Christ, which is, has set the church in place. And because Christ is Lord of the church and head of the church, he gives everything necessary, this is section seven, he gives everything necessary to his church to carry out the tasks he's given them. So he commands how the church is supposed to be, and then he gives the church everything necessary to carry out the tasks he's given them to carry out. And we talked about this last time, and it was mentioned again, I don't know if you caught it, in one of the sections I just read, the church, can have, you can have a church without having the elders and deacons, but eventually you need elders and deacons. God can build a church however he wants to without elders and deacons, but eventually you want to have them to make it complete. And I've just, this is a cool thing that I'm just shocked, and I shouldn't be, that our Bible's forefathers even back this far understood this so well. Anyways, then the section eight, Lordship of Christ is demonstrated in the government of the church. He gives them power, we just said, to do what he intends and then he grants the power to officers who have specific duties. And again, this is how the complete church looks. So you can have a church but then It would be somewhat incomplete without elders and deacons or the servants that God set apart, but certainly the elders. It can exist incomplete, but the desire and the goal is to have a church completely organized with both members and officers, right? And so I just think that's comforting and assuring because, and we talked about this some last week, in a world where a lot of people are saying the only way to plant a church is the church must send and plant the church and send people out and enough people to start and enough money to last for two or three years until they can get going good and then they're on their own. I think this is a, I don't know, I just think this is a better way to see the sovereignty of God in church planting. God can put a church wherever he wants to and he can have elders or not, eventually he will, but I think the idea is that from that congregation and those members he'll rise, he'll raise up his officers and elders and put them in place. I point this out because I think, as I was reading through this and thinking through it, this understanding would really go a long way to dismantling this hierarchy mentality within the church. You understand, like if you could say, I mean, God can put a church together and the church will function just fine without an elder. It would kind of do away with this idea of this Pope-like mentality of elders are up here and then the congregation is down here. No, the church is, the church is God's church put together and I have a different responsibility and duty as this points out than some of the other members, but that doesn't make the other members duties and responsibilities less important, right? And I think it just, I just thought about that like, man, if we understood this better and taught this, um, You wouldn't have the benevolent dictatorship of pastoral authority anymore. I think it would kind of dismantle that. But anyways, it points out that the officers that God has appointed are elders and deacons. Now, I don't know if we've talked about this much in the past. I clearly see the office of elder and how it functions in the scripture. It's very well defined. I struggle with the office of deacon. I don't, Acts chapter six is the go-to passage, and we're not gonna really talk about this tonight. We can talk about it later. I struggle with what deacon ministry is supposed to be. I know the word diakonos. I understand it just means servant. I understand what Acts chapter six was doing. If that was deacons, most people point to that as deacon ministries. I think even Calvin said that is the deacon ministry in Acts six. But what bothers me about Acts chapter 6 is that it seems like there was a specific need, they chose men of a certain caliber to take care of that specific need and then it was, I don't know what they did after that. Did they dismantle? The need was taken care of? Did they go away? What I do know is that often in the scripture, several times, whenever the elders are present, there's deacons with them. So, I've got a lot of my own personal ideas of what I think maybe deacon ministry is supposed to be about. Obviously, it's a servant ministry, and if you go back in Baptist history, even in 1600s and 1500s, and some of our forefathers, Nehemiah Cox, for example, The other guy, his name slipped my mind right now. They all wrote about this, and to them, the deacon ministry has specific tasks, serving, collecting money, spending the money, make sure the money was protected, make sure the pastors were taken care of, make sure, even some of them said deacon ministry made sure the members were giving properly. I mean, you know, so there's all kind of, a lot of this stuff comes down to, We know there's a deacon ministry. We see the elder ministry clearly define the scripture, the deacon ministry. We need them. We need servants. I don't know exactly what it functions like. So, you know, it's kind of one of those things. I know we all have an idea because we've all seen it happen. I'm just not sure we've ever seen it happen properly, but I don't know. It's one of the reasons we don't have any here yet but I'm hoping that we can do that one day because I want that because I also see in this and I think this is proper that our Baptist forefathers felt like Elders and deacons. Now, elders have specific roles only elders had, but deacons could share some of those roles, including preaching, including the ordinances, supper. I mean, that's one of the things I would love for us to have some ordained men in the church. So if I'm not here, we can still have the Lord's Supper. You know, I don't have to be an elder. It can be a deacon. So anyways, interesting. But it's interesting also to note in here that first, these officers that are appointed, they're first appointed by Christ. Then they're to be chosen to set apart by the church. So there's this inward call, then the outward call, right? So God calls men to be these. specific duties, share these specific duties. Then when the church recognizes these gifts, then the church sets them apart and calls them and hopefully ordains them. And of course, as it mentioned, if there's already elders present, that was a little phrase I was pointing out earlier. If the elders are present, then they lay hands on the elders to be and lead in the ordination and so forth. I think something you just said is very important, and in our modern context, I think, in our experiences anyway, is neglected. And that is, you said that the church recognizes their gifting. And I think that has been lacking, at least the experiences I've had in church, where you have a lot of young men that come up, and they, oh, I feel called to preach. And nobody questions it. Nobody, like, examines them. Nobody, they just, oh, well, you know, it's like, well, who are we to question God? God must have laid that on your heart. So, you know, we're going to support you in that. But then, for whatever reason, they're not gifted. I mean, maybe they can talk well. Maybe they're good communicators. But, you know, they don't study. They don't, you know, there's no substance to what they do. Anyway, I think that we as a church have kind of missed the boat on that one a lot of times. I agree. And that is, you know, it's like, okay, so you feel gifted in this way. You feel called to this. Well, let's see if everybody can confirm that, right? Yeah. But if the church does not say, yeah, I really think you're gifted at this, then I'm sorry. I mean, it's just kind of like a personal ambition We know people that cannot communicate very well, but yet they think that they're called to ask. I know somebody, and somebody I've known well and served with, who was told by the elder ministry of his church that he did not have the gift of teaching. But he was convinced he did. And so several years later, a different elder said, I think you do have to get to teaching. And so that's, so then he continued to teach and he did not have to get to teaching. So I agree, you know, and it is something I think in the church and that the church needs to recognize and talk about and give them time to see. And also because along with what you said, my experience has been, The people that we choose out are just the people that are most faithful. Hey, he comes to church all the time. He's involved in this and that. I think he's gifted. I think he's got the calling on his life. I've seen the format you're talking about. And they'll do it in a formal sense, but it's not really the congregation coming to. Well, we've nominated this guy. If you have any problems, let us know over the next 10 days, and we'll, you know. Right. But you kind of see that format, but I don't think that's really what scripture is laying out. You don't get a chance to really know. There's not enough time to really. I think that's a great point, and it's something that we should, because I've been guilty of that in the past myself, of not giving somebody time and giving the church time and saying, you know, and I think that would be the correct thing. If we, you know, and I pray that Lord raises up some people out of our church, obviously that would be gifted elders and preachers and communicators. And, uh, I think it's, I think that would be the proper thing to do. Let them get, you know, try to train them and give them the tools that are needed and then let the church here and, Just like everything, come back to the church. Hey, what do you guys think? I mean, how do you feel about this? Rather than just saying, I'm the elder, and I've decided that this guy is called to preach, and he's going to be, you know, I think you're right. I think it's... Yeah, I mean, they're... Right. When they may not have a call to preach, they may just have a call to serve the Lord and fulfill commission or serve the Lord, but they think it's the ultimate thing to be able to preach. Well, in our pietistic context, we were talking about before, you know, people feel like they need to do something. So, a lot of times, especially, and I don't know why young guys always stand out in my head, because that's the ones that I sing the most of. And it's like, you know, it's like they want to do something. And there's probably some ego in there, and there's probably some, you know, it's like they want to have that elevation because we have it. develop that super Christian status. Well, the church talks about being a mature Christian. That's right. You shouldn't be a novice. Now, especially if we're talking about elder minister, but even like you said, because they point out in this, I think it's a few, a few sections later, not only the elders can preach, I mean, God can give to other men in the church that don't even have to be elders that can share in the preaching and the teaching ministry, which is important. But I was going to say, a church I served in a little when I was in college, it was a very rural country church, very different kind of church than certainly what we have here. But I'm sure we've all been to these kind of churches. But great people, and I love them still to death. But there was a time there where sort of called to preach got kind of popular among teenage boys and all of a sudden every other teenage boy in the youth group was called to preach and there was absolutely no discerning thoughts. Well, let's have a meeting or let's talk. Let's talk. It was like, well, you're preaching next Sunday night then, you know, we put them out in front of the church. Brother, someone says, Lord's calling to preach. He's preaching next Sunday night. And of course, I was one of those kids too that um I mean I say I was a kid I was only 21 when I really just had been dealing with it for years I feel like I was calling me to to preach and to teach and uh man a preacher friend of mine from up north Georgia calls I heard you called to preach I said I think so you're preaching my church next Sunday night and lord have mercy I that was probably the biggest mess that's ever been I'm thankful that God didn't strike me dead, whatever I said that night, because it had to be horrible. But nobody was willing to say, well, let's sit down and talk about that and see what would that look like. Yeah, or here's some, I was just talking with Ben next door about that, because he's got some guys that he was talking about. And I said, well, here's the thing, man. I mean, show them how to do it, and then see if they can do it. I mean, that's kind of what we're supposed to be doing. So it's a good point. That's what their church does, isn't it? Yeah, I think they have an elder, they have sort of a program set up that they give guys chances and teach them and train them, yeah. I think, from what I've been told by them, I haven't observed it. Now, of course, on the extreme, like the Presbyterian Church, to be an ordained preacher in the Presbyterian Church, I mean, you basically have to pass a PhD level systematic theology. You have to know your stuff. I don't know if that's really what's needed. But I would say that's the other thing. But I do think that. I think those are extremes, but I do feel like where we've missed it the most is just doing nothing or not requiring anything. Because, you know, I'm not like, I don't think, okay, before you stand in the pulpit, you need to have a, you should have a master of divinity. But I do feel like you should know something because what we've done, I mean, I've seen this too. I mean, I've literally seen guys go from, dead in their sin trespasses, be saved, six months preaching, and in a year they're pastoring a Baptist church. And then you wonder, like, you know, there's got, somewhere there's gotta be some, we gotta get somewhere in between there, you know what I'm saying? Like, you don't need a PhD, but you can't be a novice, because I think we're, I think we've definitely missed the boat, so. They have two guys that are around the age of my children that have gone to seminary, come back, and now are pastoring with my pastor in the church. And they preach, and they're excellent. I love to listen to them. And it's just really encouraging that that was properly gone through those channels. Yeah. And there was kind of a, especially in the South, After the Civil War, there was a big anti-education movement where it's like, you just need to, and I was told this multiple times, you don't need no seminary. The Lord called you, you don't need that. If the Lord called you, you don't need it. And I had a hard time listening to that. Does this make me not spiritual if I want to go? I didn't know what to do because I was getting both sides. I have very little encouragement to go and be trained, but I had a lot of encouragement telling me I didn't need it. there was this idea that somehow that made it less spiritual. And of course, there was also, in the 70s, everybody that went to seminary came home a liberal. And even in Southern Baptist seminaries, and of course now, I don't know what you'd come home from Southern Baptist, I wouldn't send my kids to any Southern Baptist seminary. But, anyways. It's a good discussion. I think it's something that's important for us to think through, because I'm trusting the Lord's gonna raise up some people, because as I said years ago when we started Sovereign Savior, I don't want this to be like the Baptist churches where the pastor dies or something happens and the church either falls apart or they go find some crazy person that does something. I don't think y'all would find much crazier than me. anyways yeah there's probably something out there i found this uh nehemiah cox i mentioned him earlier it's a great figure in our in our baptist history he wrote this just this little excerpt i pulled from a real long uh ordination message that he preached about what is an elder and a pastor of a church and he said this It is his duty to take care of the due exercise of discipline in the church and the right ordering of all things pertaining to the government thereof. He is the overseer of God's house and is to rule therein, but not in a despotical, a despot, or lordly way, but by the testament of Christ as becomes a minister and as one set the Lord's heritage as one set in the Lord's heritage who are voluntarily, who are a voluntary people and to be governed not with force and rigor, but with their own consent, which I think is interesting. You know, it's that balance of, you know, we're all voluntary army here of the Lord. So I'm not your ruler in the sense that I'm not gonna stand up and lord over you some kind of despotic rule in your life. It's more of a, with the Testament of Christ, as willing people who are here given the consent to be under the authority of elder ministry. That's different. And like I say, I've grown up and even thought at one time in my life that this idea of a benevolent dictatorship was the proper way view pastoral authority. That, hey, you know, I make the rules and you abide by them or go find another church. I mean, I've heard that preached in the pulpit, you know. If you don't like this, then there's another church down the road, you know. That's the danger with a single elder model. It is. Well, and you get into churches where you're fighting against so much stuff and you don't know what to do and you're trying to It seems like the best thing to do would just be to get rid of all the bad and start something new. And you can't do that either. It's almost impossible. I've tried that before. You know Jeff Lynn, don't you? Yeah. So Jeff was the first one I saw that actually came to the church and asked for help as he was leaving the church to move. And I just found that fascinating that an elder would come to the other elders and say, I want help finding another church. and even your blessing in moving. And it was amazing to see that kind of subjection to the authority that he presented himself that way. Yeah, because he was an elder there, right? He was. I thought so. Yeah, Christy's sister or brother-in-law that have visited here a few times, they go to that church with, or the church where Jeff's daughter and them attend in Chattanooga. Oh, do they? Yeah. This is a while when I started making those connections. Well, anybody want to say anything else about that? Because I don't want to cut that short. Because section 10, I don't know if we'll finish, but I want to look at it real quick. This is one of the interesting sections to me. This is one of the places where I feel like... I understand why they say the things they say. I feel like they go a lot further in application than they do in interpretation, if that makes sense. I feel like this is one of the places where they might overstep the bounds of application. But anyways, I get what they're saying and we'll talk about it. The work of the pastor. He's to give constant attention to the service of Christ and church and the ministry of the word and prayer, watch over the souls, all this pretty much straight out Hebrews from one place, Titus. The churches to whom they minister must not only give them all due respect but also share with them from all their good things according to their ability. And again, these are scriptural references and we're gonna especially look at 1 Timothy 5. But then this part, they must do this so their pastors may have a comfortable living without having to be entangled in secular matters. Which again, I find, I get it. I just find it very interesting. So they can show hospitality to others. And it's just interesting, the connections that are made. This is required by the law of nature. And again, they're just pointing out, hey, you know, it just would, It seems natural that if you have an elder who's ruling well and he's caring for your soul and he's preaching and laboring in the word, that you'd want to take care of him. That part I understand. It's not odd. But then by the explicit command of our Lord Jesus, and then they quote, that those who preach the gospel should make their living by the gospel. Now, if we look at 1 Timothy 5, we'll see some of this, We'll see some of that language. I'm reading from the ESV, let's see. All the way down. So verse 17, let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. Now again, I think it's a matter of interpretation and exegesis and a lot of things. Are you upset about? Are you trying to give your elder a cup of coffee there? Appreciate it. I thought it was, anyways. Let them rule, they're worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching, for the scripture says, shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain and the laborer deserves his wages. So again, I get that the scriptures does teach that the elder, especially a teaching elder in a church, can receive pay from the church and be taken care of. if the church so chooses and the elder so chooses. But I was trying to figure out where I missed this out. Let me go back. No, I don't think it's in these. One of the places, I thought it was in First Timothy. I had it written down here. I looked through all this stuff. But First Timothy 5.17, that says, obviously, I know Acts chapter 20 is one of the places where Paul is talking about, he's talking to the Ephesian church, and he's warning them about all this stuff, right? And he goes down, About verse 20 chapter 20 verse 20. He's telling them, you know, I didn't shrink back from anything That's profitable. I taught you from house to house And he keeps going on down Verse 27 I did not shrink from declaring the whole council of God. I Know after my departure Wolfe will come in but also Yeah, you know yourselves that these hands ministered to my necessities and those who are with me All things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus how he says more blessed to give than to receive and Also, I don't know why I lost him first Timothy But he's also pointing out there that in his mind as the Apostle He didn't take advantage of that opportunity to be paid. He admitted, there is an opportunity. I can be paid. But he said, I didn't get paid, lest those who, and I think he's talking about those who were accusing him, would have any right to say that he preached the gospel in any way other than free of charge. And then he says this in Acts 20, and I think, You know, and he even points out here to him, I mean, the writers of our confession said, do this for your pastor so that he won't be entangled in the things of the world and so he can help the poor or he can give to the needy. Paul says here, I worked with my hands and ministered to those with me so that as a reminder of what it means to help the weak. In other words, he's, I just see this, I think it's interesting that even in our confession, and so many people that I know teach that passage in 1 Timothy 5, that hey, you're supposed to pay the pastor and take care of him, and I'm fine with that, and I don't think that's sinful, but we neglect What Paul said also, I have that right, but also I have a right not to take it. And for him, it seemed like very important for him not to take it and to set an example by working hard and receiving pay from the world in his worldly endeavors so that he wasn't a burden on the church. And so what I say about the confession is, do I think the confession is wrong right here? No, that's not what I'm saying. I think they overstep the point in stating that as if this is the only option. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, other than, I'm interested, now one of the reasons I will say this, one of the reasons they point this out, probably, is because around this time there's something called the Act of Uniformity in the churches of England, which said if you are part of the Reformation, you no longer receive any money from the state. Now, there wasn't that many particular Baptists who did receive money from the state as pastors, but some of them did. But at this point, if you were saying you were against the Catholic Church, they cut you off. So you can kind of see, again, and I always try to point this out, always be mindful that our confession was written from a point of view and in a setting. So to them, they're like, hey, the state's no longer gonna offer this, so we gotta do it. So I get that. But I just think it's, I think it's odd to me that this is the only option. And especially this idea of, it bothers me that, and again, this is not the Bible, this is our confession, so I can agree with the purpose here and what's being said without agreeing with the whole application of it. Because I would say, I mean, what does it mean to receive double honor? That's a matter of interpretation. You've got to figure that out. I don't get the, I mean, so they won't be entangled in secular matters. I mean, you know, I almost, I start thinking about monasteries. Like, what do you want you to do, sit around up here? I think it's so you don't go out looking for money in the wrong way. And I can see that also. And I would say that that's more of what they have in mind. And I think I can see a good blend of both. Yeah. Well, and I think that's what the scripture, that's my point. The scripture says. I think Paul even talked about thank you for the gifts and bring this and do that. I mean, there were certain things there that he, but he never took money from the church per se, but he did take gifts and honor and I guess some support in certain places. Yeah, and he did take money. Places to stay and maybe certain foods and things that were, I could see a common blend of that. Yeah, and that's different than what it's saying here. It is. But either way, I've really struggled with this over the years anyways. I struggled with it while I was being paid as a full-time pastor because of this. I saw this. I don't know if attention is right, but I saw just the, you know, Paul saying, hey, we have a right to this, but we didn't take it. And the reason we didn't take it is because we felt like this was better. Now he didn't say, therefore, people who take it, how dare you take it? And that's where my, that's where I am. So I'm not, I don't condemn people who do. Um, I just, I don't know, it's just, I wish they would have, I wish they would have pointed out both. I guess that's my dilemma. Yeah, it seems like they would have set it up sort of like the way elders and deacons is that you kind of have the ideal state, right? This would be ideal. Yeah. But, you know, as the circumstances allow, or this is what you want to, This is what you want to strive towards, but if you can't, it still doesn't make you less. Sure. Or even if he just would have said, I mean, Paul wrote about both. Do this if you can, if it's workable, if it works, if it works for your elder and for your church. But if the elder says, I choose to rattle Paul, I wanna work with my hands. Because I thought about this other, we talked about this earlier too, 1 Thessalonians 4, which this is written to the church more, not necessarily the elders, but, you know, Paul saying to the church there, we urge you brothers to do more and more, do this more and more, he's talking about loving one another, and that you aspire to live quietly, to mind your own affairs, to work with your hands as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one. So you see that, I mean, there's both of those in scripture. You talking about the first century? I mean, I just don't know. You know, I think about... Right. I don't know. And I mean, you know, I've heard, I've also read a lot of different interpretations about that verse that says those who live from the gospel, those who preach the gospel should live from it. A lot of the first century churches were houses. Right. Yeah. Right. And they weren't even built. I mean, they weren't separate buildings. You said something about monasteries and of course, you know, Right By the 1740s Jonathan Edwards, you know Yeah, but I mean you still had that strong influence and they would have had a pastoral they talked about how much money he needed to survive. The times didn't change as fast then as they do now. So I think from 1689 until 1740, I don't know that things would have changed that much. So it probably would have been very similar, I would imagine. I mean, this could be more giving to the church, in a sense of what we refer to as tithing. Well, the pastors, preachers lived there. Well, my assumption would be if they were deacons. Typically, deacons are the ones that make sure all the physical needs are taken care of in the church. I would assume that the pastor's salary would have been part of that. But again, these are assumptions. There's also pastors back in that time that preached at two or three churches. I just don't think it's good to have a congregation of 1,000 making six-figure income living in a 4,000-square-foot house. I don't think that's what it is. We were studying for a family with two kids, a husband and wife and two kids to live comfortably. Both spouses are both about working. It's like $250,000 a year is what it is. I saw one that said $90,000. That was a single person. How much? $90,000. To live comfortably. I live comfortably, and I don't make anywhere near nice. That just shows how spoiled we are. I'm just irritated that we're in our comfort zone. Come to church, but you're not going to our house. Their culture is, and it's like these people come with $400,000, $800,000 budget. I'm like, what do these people do? That's funny well anyways, I just wanted to point that out that there is There is a different There's a little bit of tension in that section. And again, mainly just to point out that our confession is our guide, and for the most part, we're learning these doctrines through the confession. But it's not scripture. We still gotta take scripture and go back and say, okay, what do we believe about this? And again, I think either one is correct. I think it depends on both the church and the church's desire and the pastor, the teachers that they have. What is everybody's desire in this? And then you just gotta decide, what does that look like? What does it look like for me to be comfortable enough not to be entangled in the affairs of the world? I don't know what that looks like. Because there's other passages in the Bible about taking how you use the world's money. It's just a lot of stuff to think through. I think Paul was all things to all men, so I think he did different things in different situations because I know that there's scriptures where he commended the churches for providing for all his needs, you know, but then like at the end of 2 Thessalonians he said we did not work we did not eat anyone's food free of charge instead we labored and struggled working night and day so that we would not be a burden to any of you and he did that because to be an example because it says because we've heard some of you are walking irresponsibly not working yeah he said if you don't work you don't eat we needed to be if you needed to see that example right i think other churches I feel like he, you know, it was just different situations, so I don't think there's liberty and grace in that. Well, he does say that he learned how to be poor. He learned how to be poor. Yeah, he learned how to solve situations. I don't think it's like a black or white issue. No, and that's why I'm interested in why the confession only put that so boldly. And then it's obvious by the law of nature and by the explicit command, You know, the law of nature and the explicit commands of our Lord. So it's almost like, sorry, this is it. You know, there is, ignore all the other stuff about. working with your hands and making your own living and not hindering the gospel. And so I think it's, it's just one of them places, but again, you put it in their context and their, their thing is, Hey, we want, you know, we're fighting for our life and we're not getting any support from the state anymore. So the only way your pastor is going to survive is if we support them. And you know, there might've been some guys that, They didn't have a choice. They didn't have any other gifts. Um, which I don't know. That's a scary, I remember, um, what's the guy's name?