Second thing is that last Tuesday night, Jay and I met with the elders of Cornerstone. And we had a wonderful time. These are really quality guys. I knew that ahead of time. And we just had a warm time together. We shared what had happened. They asked some clarifying questions. Just seemed to be really responsible guys. So now the ball's in their court. And we offered that, they asked us if down the road they need our involvement at all, we're glad to be available, but that's up to them. So that's where things, so officially things are done, and now they're under their responsibility. So any questions about that? That's sort of the last thing that we needed to do. But that's done. Okay, turn your Bibles to Luke chapter 12. Now, this is providential. This is not by my planning, it's providential. In Luke chapter 12, we're gonna finish up Luke 12, but the title, at least in the NIV of this section, beginning in verse 49, is Not Peace, But Division. Let me take us through that. I'm sure there's a few things that'll come to mind as we go through this. Because Jesus is speaking and he says, I have come to bring fire on the earth. Of course, that's judgment. And how I wish it were already kindled. But I have a baptism to undergo. That's going to be the cross. And what constraint I am under until it is completed. So he's desired to go to the cross. Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No. I tell you but division. From now on, there will be five in one family divided against each other. Three against two, two against three. They will be divided, father against son, and son against father, mother against daughter, daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law, and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law. Just stop there for a second. Now, this seems, at least on the surface, to go against the whole concept, God is love. You know, especially we're talking about Jesus. Jesus is, he came to show us how to love, And now all of a sudden here he is telling us, I came not to bring peace, but division. And so what are the implications of this? And there are a lot. Admittedly, we, for us here, that which we view as most precious is our biological families. We do. We think that's sort of the last stand as we have our family. And so you tend to think, it's almost natural to think that this is the most important thing. And I'm especially talking to mothers, because I think this particular passage is even more difficult for the moms than the dads. Not saying it's not difficult for dads, but I think it's especially difficult for moms. Because you're nurturing your family, that is really your life, is your family. And now Jesus is coming along saying, this is not the most important thing. This is not. And he's gonna address it in a couple of different ways. but the willingness to have your family fractured on the basis of the gospel, on the basis of faithfulness, that is what we're gonna talk about today. Just the willingness to have that which you think of as most precious, a willingness to let that go. And, you know, will the Lord require that of you? I don't know. He has required it of some up to this point. There may be more down the road. But the question is, are we even willing to entertain that that could happen to our families? Are we even willing to do that? Or is my biological family off limits? Even the Lord's not allowed to touch that. And he says, you know, do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you but division. Now this is a brief passage in comparison, there's a little fuller one if you flip over to Matthew chapter 10, which is typical in the gospels where something will be discussed in one gospel but then in another, it's still gonna be discussed, but sometimes in a bit of a fuller context, just fills out the picture better. So turn to Matthew chapter 10, and we're gonna begin at verse 32. There's a bit more, and this might help us. He says, do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword, for I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. A man's enemies will be the members of his own household. Now stop for just a second. That will not happen if we remain quiet about our faith. That will not happen. If you take the safe route, if I take the safe route and keep my head down, and not look for opportunities to share, then this is not going to happen. So, you know, Jay talked about Romans 13, 8, that debt of love. Now, in that context, it's talking about loving really fellow believers and all of that, but there is, we are commanded to love one another in a broad sense. And the debt of, really, debt of love we owe to those around us, that particularly our families, is really real. That there is this twisted form of love that in effect says, I can not push the envelope about the gospel to them. And I can sort of, this version of love, love them right into hell. Just love them right into hell. Because their eternal destiny, active torment in a lake of fire forever, is not that important. What is more important is that we have harmony within the family. And I put it that way not to sort of be extreme, but to be realistic. That's what it is, because we all face this struggle. Sharing the gospel with family members, I think, can be much more difficult than sharing with someone off the street. Much more difficult. And so you sympathize with folks who, you know, this is tough. But there's a lot at stake. There is a lot at stake. And we have to sacrifice what others think of us for the sake of the gospel. We have to. There always is a price to be paid. And so that's, I think, that's where he is going, not only in Luke 12, but here in Matthew 10. Stop for just a second. questions up to this point. Brian. Oh, okay. Samantha, you're next. I just think I can speak to this, and I will say that, you know, Jay asked if my wife was at that meeting, and she wasn't. She went to Ace Hardware. She really didn't do that, but the truth is, And I'd be curious, Jeff, how you would apply this in our situation. So this area is really, this is the hardest area in our marriage. It's very difficult. And it's very, very difficult for me, because anytime I want to bring up, let's read our Bibles together. Let's have discussions around this. And I've always done it. So my children have all heard the gospel. My wife has heard the gospel. I've never been afraid to share those kinds of things. But they've all pushed back and rejected to do that. And every time I bring something up to my wife on these things, it gets very heavy and it's hard. It is not fun. It is tough. And I'll still do that, but I actually feel pressure. And sometimes I decide not to do it just because I don't want to deal with the heaviness of it. And it's not as if I'm denying Christ. I mean, that's already been made clear and explicit. But sometimes I choose not to deal with the heaviness that automatically comes, just a change in demeanor. You know, just, all right, so that's a real life situation I deal with regularly. Samantha first. Before you go there, I think there is, you know, something to consider that once we, You know, we've shared the gospel. In Brian's case, that's happened repeatedly. But once you share it, when you're living in close proximity with someone, like your wife or your kids, whatever, something when you see on a regular basis, there is a sense of which we do not want to just sort of beat on people. We don't want to do that. But on the other hand, we want to look for opportunities that you know, come about, that we have the courage to take advantage when they do open up. Maybe that's the point. So you're not haranguing people just, you know, every time we get together, it's what we do. But on the other hand, the other side of the coin, that you're, I'm looking for opportunities to, you know, to say something that would, you know, that would be, you know, more natural. Now that still may, end up with a heavy discussion. But you can never be accused of just sort of forcing it, like the bull in the china shop, which, you know, there are times when you have a limited period of time, you're not going to see them maybe again, and you just want to get something out there. We understand that. But living with someone's a different ballgame. Samantha? First, just kind of in relation to that, because it talks about when someone is married, you know, the passage where an unbeliever and believer are married because they got married as unbelievers, then the person becomes a believer, it says, you know, that they may be won over by your actions. So yes, you do need to share the gospel, but, you know, the Lord says, just by how you treat your spouse as a believer, that that might, that he might use that as a way to cause them to come to know him. Yeah, just the idea in this, I mean, in our immediate family, with my siblings, this has not happened. But the Lord has certainly brought this type of trial for you, dad, in many other areas. So it has not been the case in our immediate family, but it's the reminder that all believers, we're going to be placed in situations where you're gonna be butt up against people that when you are faithful and you share the gospel, they're gonna reject you. And they're gonna reject the gospel and often then reject you. And that's just, that is a normal aspect to being a believer. So. You're right. Yeah, I mean, in our particular family, there's no doubt about it. We are unusual in that all of the family members, my kids, their spouses, all seem to be real believers, which is unusual. I'm very thankful. But down the road, I mean, theoretically, we've seen this with other folks, pressures arise, and maybe one of them is going to, you know, begin to get, you know, stuck in sin, and they don't want to repent. Ah. You know, so you have to be prepared, at least committed ahead of time, that if this should happen, you know, is keeping my relationship with my son or daughter, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, is that more important? And the answer biblically is no, it's not. But it's like everything, it's the willingness to lose for the sake of being faithful, the willingness to lose. Now, lose what that means can change, but the willingness to lose, I think that's crucial. You have to be willing to lose when you pursue being faithful, you've just got to. I mean, Jay and I have laughed, we've talked about this, all this stuff we've gone through at the fellowship since August. And the answer is, you know, are we willing to have such reaction in the fellowship that we're gonna be a house church? And the answer is yes. And we've talked about it, the answer is yes. Because that's, whatever God does, he does. And there is that, way of saying, obviously we care, but it doesn't, we don't care about the response. Obviously we care for you deeply, but from that point of view, your response is not gonna dictate whether we're faithful. It doesn't. It doesn't. And if it does, then we're in trouble. Then we're counting noses as to whether we're gonna obey, and that's not good. Where are we at? Chris. I think too, um, our culture is just kind of in this societal norm where like everybody wants to equate their beliefs with each other. So like I just think of my mom, like she, I've given the gospel to my mom more than once, kind of like you were sharing, but she still wants to make her self, Like she's the same as me. Like she believes the same things as me. And then I have to get into that sort of battle that Brian's sort of wrestling with is like, do I bring it up again? Because we're not the same. But she constantly wants to make it like we're okay. And like we're okay, but she's not okay with the God of the universe as far as I'm concerned. And it's a, It is a battle. You don't want to fall into that trap of, it is a hard line to walk, I guess. So I'm sympathizing with Brian because I do need to speak up at times. But there is a time when not every battle needs to be fought, I guess. Yeah, I mean, we have it. We did that with my sister up in Wisconsin. If she's claiming to be a believer, and I said, I don't believe you are a believer. So the stage has been set. that if she, in another setting, let's say with my siblings, she wants to push that narrative that she's a believer, I'm obligated to speak up. I'm just, and she knows that. If she's gonna push when I'm there, I will, I have to push back because, you know, I do not accept, you know, her profession, I don't. But I've talked with her, she knows where I'm at, she doesn't like what, what I say, but, you know, that's, but if she persists in bringing that up in, you know, our company when we're together, you know, then that's, that's the way it is that I have to respond. Just a second. Yeah, so I do think you care. Yeah, I do. You care, you really do, but you aren't willing to be unfaithful. Yeah. You know, in, in, you know, to make someone, And I think that's the challenge that we have as believers is that battling against that heaviness and the discomfort. Although in the close relationship, you do end up in the situation where, and for me, it's as long as the other unbelievers in my immediate family understand, where I am in regards to their position before God, then I just take whatever opportunity comes up to bring it up again. And so we've done that over the years with lots of different family members. But I've watched also families that as their kids came up, they weren't clear enough, and they let the kids, they found ways to let the kids have false professions. And then that caused a lot of family strife later on, and it's really a lot harder to come back from that. So that I would definitely discourage. We have three daughters, two are believers, one is not. I'm just really grateful that she isn't. But not grateful that she isn't, but grateful that she knows that we would not acknowledge a false profession from her. I remember, but there are plenty of places that want your kids to pray the prayer. And when our girls were little, the oldest two, they went to Oana and Every time they'd go to Iwana, when they'd come home, we had to correct that. No, you can't just pray the prayer. We had to correct that understanding. And of course, we live through, and we see it now today in other churches, the seeker-friendly environment and the stuff that came out of the Fuller Church Growth Institute in the 80s that encouraged believers to make unbelievers comfortable. And so culturally, we've definitely been challenged in that regard. Matt and Debbie, did you have something? Your hand was up, but I think we bypassed you. OK. Where are we at now? My self-esteem is low. OK. Where are we at? Oh, it's back to me. So go back to Matthew 10, pick it up in verse 37, because this is much more of an explanation, which is not in Luke 12, not in Luke 12. Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me. Anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. I think it's just that what that means is you're going to be faithful. Just whatever faithfulness means in that situation according to scripture, you're going to do it. And there's a price to be paid for doing it at times. That's the concept. I think that's the concept. Whoever finds their life will lose it. And whoever loses their life for my sake will find it. I mean, this is kind of radical, but then that is the Christian life. I mean, it just is. We take this stuff very seriously, and most evangelical churches don't take it really seriously, but we do, and without apology, we do. And so this is something that we all can identify with. There's a certain amount of, fear of man that we have to overcome in various situations. We all identify with that. Everybody does. But we want to encourage each other so we don't give into that. So hearing something like Billy sharing about sharing his faith or Brian sharing his faith, that's just terribly encouraging to the rest of us. And we appreciate, we need that. We need that. Jay? He mentions take up your cross and follow me before he went to the cross. Yeah. Yeah. And so he's basically saying you need to be willing to die for me. Yeah. It's like he doesn't stand before the firing squad. For me, he's not worthy of me. So he's asked, you know, that's what he's requiring of his followers. Yeah. In the book of Hebrews, where at one point they're just he's addressing these guys who are experiencing lots of persecution for their faithfulness, but now they're beginning to buckle. And his one point is, you have not yet resisted to the shedding of your blood. Come on, he says, it's not that bad. And it looks bad, but he says, come on, guys. You're not shedding blood yet. And the idea is the same thing that Jay said. It's the same thing. And so now, there's a couple of things. Question? Was that an idiom? No, that I know, but the idea of taking up your cross could mean all kinds of things. What it means is the price of faithfulness. Ultimately, it's your life, but it comes in incremental ways, the price of faith. We all know that because sometimes just having a loved one, reject you for your being faithful seems like overwhelming, but you have to be willing to live with it. Okay, we didn't delve into this, but the idea, at least from my point of view, maybe a guy's or a husband's point of view, that when your spouse, when your spouse is not encouraging you when you're trying to be faithful, and your spouse is not encouraging you. From a guy's point of view, this is really difficult. This is really difficult. You know, women have to submit, and that's true. But I don't think most wives understand how difficult it is for the husband to have to cross their wives, how difficult that is, to cross them and say, no, can't go that direction, because that's not biblically sound. We just can't do it. And from a guy's point of view, this is kind of universal, this is really hard. It's really hard to go against. That's why what we're seeing so much as a result of our culture, we're seeing guys who are just poor biblical leaders at home. That's what we're seeing, poor biblical leaders. They're just, you know, they're just, you know, I'm not gonna pay that price. to have to live with this woman after I've crossed her. I'm not gonna pay the price. Because when there's disharmony in the home, you can't get away from it. Disharmony in a fellowship, at least you go home. But when the home is a little rough, you can't get away from it. And that's really difficult. But it's the same thing. Same thing. So in light of that, there's two places our time is going up. There's two places I want you to look at. First is back to Luke, but go to chapter eight. This is someplace we've been before, but just remind you, Luke chapter eight, and we're gonna look at verses 19 to 21. Jesus is in the midst of doing his ministry, and we have this little snippet of statements put in here, verse 19. Now, Jesus' mother and brothers came to see him, but they were not able to get near him because of the crowd. Someone told him, your mother and brothers are standing outside waiting to see you. Well, the normal response is, drop everything. Mom and my siblings are there. And of course, Jesus replied, my mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and put it into practice. Now, what is fascinating He doesn't say, are those who believe. Well, this is saying the same thing, but the emphasis is on the new heart because that's the proof of the pudding that you really believe. He says, those who hear God's word and put it into practice. Because you could substitute that for belief in this context. That's what really matters. And Jesus is just driving home the point. We are not going to be spending eternity with our biological family unless they repent and believe the gospel. This is a purely temporary relationship. Like my elder brother, the oldest brother, David, that I was legal guardian. He had memory, you know, he had head issues and he died defiant. This relationship is purely temporary. It's not going to be eternal. That's the way it goes, my parents, purely temporary, no evidence that they believed. So that's, so it really, when you read that, it should, it's just kind of, ooh. And then the other one is the very end of 1 John, very end, chapter five, the very last verse of 1 John chapter five, this is thrown in. And it almost looks like a tack-on at the end. Obviously, the Holy Spirit's controlling the apostle John to write this, so it's not a tack-on, even though it may look that way to us at times. His final word, dear children, keep yourselves from idols. And of course, anything that's more important than obedience is an idol. Anything. Spouse, children. Extended family, whatever. And this is what we're discussing today. And for all of us, it is, it's a sobering thought. Because we do, it is natural for all of us to view our biological family as the most precious thing we've got. But the Lord's just reminding us, no, it is not. No, it is not. So he grants, he gives you a family, If you're married, you have kids, he's given you that to make you more Christ-like, you're steward over the family, but if they don't repent and believe, this is a short-term relationship, and you're to understand that, that you're not to put all your eggs in that basket of their relationship, no. Who are my mother and brothers? Who? Only those. who actually believe. Put my words into practice, so. Questions? Dan. This is all very foreign to me. I can't relate to any of this. I know, Dan. This is a hypothetical. Hypothetical. OK. So. I agree with all that, and yet then there's this in 1 Timothy 5, 8, it says, anyone who does not provide for their relatives and especially for their own household has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. Well, that's true. So, I know, but it's, they do have a certain special place as believers, how we're supposed to treat them. Yes. but not as it comes to their faith. Right. You have to make a distinction in this that you have responsibilities. It's like kids at home or whatever, extended family members. You have responsibilities to care, take care of people. That's true. But you're supposed to then, there's something else you need to think about, something else that's going to affect what you say and what you do. It's going to affect it. And it's not an either or, it's a both and. It goes at the same time. That's a good point. Thanks for bringing it up. Anybody else? Samantha. Just kind of on those same lines, because then you go to John, the passage of John and Jesus' death on the cross, and he goes out of his way on the cross to say, oh, John, you need to take care of my mom. Oh, yeah. You're with him now. So before he even died, he made sure his mother was taken care of. Right. You're right. I mean, we talk about something, this is a little different, but we talk about, you know, as a person, we all wear a variety of hats as adults. We do. We wear a variety of hats. Spheres of responsibility. And sometimes people will talk, what's more important, this or that? The answer is all of them. You got to do them all for the glory of God. But you got to do them all. One is not more important than the other. You just have to shoulder all of your responsibilities from a biblical point of view. That's the way it works. We don't pit one versus the other. We don't do that. And, you know, are you going to do it perfectly? No. You're always kind of juggling. You know, you focus on one area, this area falls down. You focus on this area, this area falls down. You know, but that's, you just keep plugging away, and over time you get a little better, because the Lord has promised that sanctification is progressive. So the Spirit of God is going to cause us to get better at this. And in the meantime, you're unconditionally accepted because Jesus pays for all of your sin, which is wonderful. So you're not under the gun, as it were. You're unconditionally accepted, but because the Holy Spirit is now working in you, you are not content to stay where you are, which is a wonderful thing. And yet, at the same time, you're not earning anything, because it's been earned for you by the death of Jesus on the cross. So all these things are true, always. Final questions? Okay, this is what we desperately need to always care for each other, encourage each other. We thrive on encouragement as believers. And we sort of take turns going through difficult situations. And when you're going through difficult, you need someone else to encourage you. When they're going through something, you need to encourage them. That's part of why we do not forsake. Remember Hebrews 10, 24, 25. Do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together as some are in the habit of doing, but encourage one another and all the more as you see the day approaching. So we are, we have this debt of love that has been brought up that we owe to each other, and that's part of it. is to care for each other. So it's healthy for you to, on your drive home, who do we need to care for? Who do we need to care for? That is a healthy question to pose to yourself. Okay? Let's pray. Father, This idea of you causing divisions in our biological families is tough. But you warn us that this side of heaven, we are only here temporarily on your behalf to do your bidding. And then when our role is done, you take us home. And then we're with you forever with all those for whom your son died for on the cross. Help us to keep this perspective so that we can truly love our loved ones. Give us courage. Help us to overcome our fear of man. But thank you that through the work of your Holy Spirit, we are gonna make progress, but you always get the credit. Amen. Okay, announcements.