Looking at our world from a theological perspective, this is the Theology Central Podcast, making theology central. Good evening, everyone. It is Friday, February the 23rd. It is Friday, February the 23rd. It is currently 10.55 p.m. Central Time. It is the year 2024. I'm coming to you live from the Theology Central studio located right here in Abilene, Texas. And obviously, I'm going to be talking about something where the date is very significant. It is February the 23rd, 2024. Is that ringing a bell? Is something coming to your attention? February the 23rd. Maybe February the 23rd isn't ringing a bell. Maybe nothing is coming to your mind. Okay, let me say this. February 24. It's February 23, 2024. But let me state the date, February 24th. Now, now does something come to your mind? Something very important, something very tragic. Let me see if I can help you. The early morning hours of February the 24th, 2022. It's February 23rd, 2024. It's about to be, it's 1056 p.m. now here in West Texas. Other areas, it's about to become midnight. Your clock, your calendar, your clock's about to say 12 a.m. and your calendar's about to say February the 24th. Well, it was the early hours of February the 24th, 2022. the Russian invasion of Ukraine began. February the 24th, 2022 was the beginning of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And probably there's a high probability most people, at least here in the United States of America, have already forgotten about when it started. Many of them may not even be thinking on a daily basis about the tragedies and the death and the destruction and the pain and the suffering and the displacement that has occurred because of this invasion. Some people just see it more as a political thing. And for some weird reason, for many conservatives and even many pastors from the pulpit, well, Russia is the hero in the story. Putin is the hero in the story. And Ukraine is the bad guys. That's been a crazy development to watch unfold. But it's been two years since the invasion of Ukraine by Russia began. Two years, again, let me state the date. It's February the 23rd, 2024, right? For some of you in just two minutes, it's gonna be February the 24th, 2024. And it was the early mornings of February 24th, 2022 when the invasion began. Now, during those two years, I need us to just be very brutally honest with one another. Over these two years, how much have you thought about the people suffering in Ukraine? Now, I understand it's very difficult because we have our own lives to live. We have our own situations, right? And I'm going to talk about that here in a minute, but just how much time have you given thought about? Here's maybe even a more convicting question. How much time have you prayed about the situation? How have you thought about the situation? Have you thought about the situation from a theological perspective? Now, for me, I feel that many times when Christians talk about tragic situations, talks about great tragedy where there's great loss of life, that Christians sometimes speak of it in ways that are somewhat baffling to me, philosophically confusing, psychologically damaging. It's almost like, you know, some horrible thing will happen and it'll be like, you know, well, our prayers are with you. Okay, well, I understand what we're saying, but you do realize in those situations, wait, we're praying. When we say that, you do understand we are praying to the very God who allowed that situation to occur. So for example, Have you prayed about the situation in Ukraine? Now in that situation, it's not necessarily that I'm trying to tell people that I'm praying for them. I'm just trying to pray for it to come to an end. But even that I struggle with philosophically because I am literally praying to the very God who has not intervened or has not stopped it to happen and knew it was going to happen before the foundations of the world. I struggle with that concept. But a lot of times it'll be some great tragedy and then Christians will hop on social media and just put, praying for everyone, praying for what? Praying for what? The shooting already happened. The people are already dead. Who are you praying for? And then Christians will say something about, you know, God, God is moving and God is doing this. And they will start talking about God's power or God's moving or look to God and God has this under control. And you're like, there's 14 people dead. Now in the situation in Ukraine, it's far more than 14. In fact, the numbers are almost frightening and staggering. And I'll give you some of those numbers in a minute. So how have you been thinking about the situation? Same questions could be asked about the situation in Gaza right now with Israel. Same situation. Death, destruction, displacement. Now I know there's always at the beginning we watch it and we're horrified but then sooner or later we have to go on with our lives and I understand that. This is not some like throw a guilt trip on everyone. I just want us to stop and think about how so many times great tragedy is occurring and we're just going on with our lives. Look, I'm personally convicted by it. There's situations going on in Gaza, situation going on in Ukraine, death, destruction, suffering, displacement, and I'm sitting here worried about how I'm going to make sure I can keep podcasting. I'm trying to worry about how my finances are going to work and I'm going to be able to pay my mortgage. Now that is a serious and significant situation obviously for me personally, but any of my difficulties, does that really Does that measure up to what they're going through? Now, I know you can't live your life that way because you can always find people who are suffering and then you'll never be able to live your life. You'll never be able to do anything. So there's gotta be a balance here. And I never know exactly what that balance is. Trust me, I don't know. But when I realized, wait a minute, it's about to be February the 24th, and then all of a sudden, in fact, for some of you, it is now February the 24th. Right when I realized, wait a minute, it's about to be February 24th, 2024, the two year anniversary, and I'm just gonna be honest with you, I've kind of already forgotten. Now, initially I subscribed to every podcast that gives daily updates about the situation in Ukraine. I don't know how many I subscribe to, five or six, and I used to listen to them on a regular basis. I probably haven't listened to some of them in months. I've already kind of moved on. Look, I'm not sitting here in some high-minded, judgmental way. I'm just trying to challenge all of us how quickly that can happen. So I want to talk a little bit. about the situation and I just I grabbed a piece of paper right here and a pencil and I just wrote down a couple of things but let me start with well a news story that was just literally just released. This is from PBS, pbs.org. Russia's invasion of Ukraine two years later, a week before the second anniversary of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, the eastern Ukraine city fell to Russia. And it gives the name of the city. It was the latest development of war that is now entering its third year. Frontline has covered the conflict since the February 24, 2022 invasion began, including by documenting possible war crimes and the grim toll the fighting has taken on civilians. A two-year update report released this month by the United Nations Human Rights Office puts the number of Ukrainian civilian casualties and almost 10,600 people killed and nearly 20,000 injured. So that's just civilians. Almost 11,000 killed, 20,000 injured. But the UN notes that the actual number of casualties is likely significant higher. Now, I don't know what significant higher is, but you're talking, I think it's safe to say, oh, well over 11,000 civilians have been killed. 11,000 civilians have been killed. Millions of Ukrainians have also been displaced by the conflict, with many former residents of besieged and bombarded cities forced to seek safety in Western Ukraine or abroad. Almost 6.5 million people, the vast majority of them women and children, have fled the country, while almost 3.7 million people remain displaced within Ukraine's borders, according to UN data. I mean, that's, I mean, I could go here and read some more numbers. Absolutely difficult to even comprehend how many people have been displaced and millions of people just like trying to figure out life at this point. While it's difficult to know the exact number of soldiers killed in the war so far, a recent New York Times report said the Pentagon estimates the Russian military has had nearly 300,000 casualties, 60,000 of them fatalities. U.S. officials have estimated that as many as 70,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died, and twice that number have been injured. In an effort to shore up its troop numbers, the Ukrainian government is considering whether to lower the minimum age from 27 to 25 for those being used in the military. So I want you to hear that. Over 300,000 casualties, 60,000 fatalities of Russian troops, and over 70,000 Ukrainian troops. as human beings who have died. Civilians, over 11,000 civilians have died. Millions are displaced. Suffering, pain, war, I mean, there's no, I mean, some people may want to turn it into a political football and, and I don't know, say crazy. Remember, we were reviewing a sermon where some things were said, and I got so mad that I turned the sermon off, because just, I mean, you can turn it into that, but, or we can stop and just remember, these are real human beings created in the image of God with human, with, with eternal souls. going to go to heaven or hell and try to wrap our mind around that we're supposed to love our neighbors or stuff. We're even supposed to be loving our enemies. So what do we do with that? What do we do with that? Well, a podcast that I subscribe to, Haven Today, They have something set up to talk about this. I think the episode just dropped a little while ago. And when I saw it, I was like, oh, they're talking about the war in Ukraine. They're talking about the anniversary because it started on February the 24th, 2022. It's getting ready to be the anniversary because, well, for some it's already February the 24th, 2024. All right. And so all these thoughts just started pouring into my mind. So I thought, I'll hit play. So I hit play on this for just a few seconds and immediately, well, immediately my mind really started struggling. So I'm going to play it, just a little of it, and then we're going to come back and I'm going to talk about some of these things that I have here written down. Here we go. We aren't just fighting for ourselves, we're fighting for a world in which it's safe to live. Words coming from a Ukrainian historian who still lives in the capital city Kiev. Two years, February 24, the second anniversary of Russia's invasion. It was supposed to be over in three days, that initial Russian invasion of Ukraine. But this was no blitzkrieg. That's never been Russian warfare. Wear them down, and in this case, Western support will wither. That same historian says Russia likes to kill the defenseless and helpless in the middle of the night. If you can't win at the front, launched missiles at hospitals, high-rise apartments, train stations and schools. Literally millions displaced, families separated, children captured and disappearing into Russian motherland. At the same time, in the middle of the war, Christ has been at work. People reading the Bible like never before. People meeting Jesus like never before. So even as war continues, Christ is on the move. It was shortly before 5 a.m. in Ukraine, 2 February 24 ago, when Russian troops first crossed the border and invaded the nation that once belonged to what was called the Soviet Union. On 21 January 1990, over 300,000 Ukrainians organized a human chain for Ukrainian independence between Kiev and Lviv, The people voted overwhelmingly by referendum to become an independent state after the communist country collapsed. Since then, war broke out two years ago. This is a special haven today that we're calling Gospel Progress in Ukraine. I'm Charles Morris, and with me again in the studio... Now, there were two phrases that jumped out at me. God is on the move. Christ is at work, I think is the way they put it. God is on the move, or maybe they said God is at work, Christ is on the move, something along those lines. I should have written them down, but something along those lines. They were putting forth this idea that, hey, war may be going on, but hey, God is at work. War is happening, but God is on the move. Christ is at work. And as soon as I heard that, I was like, oh. Christians, sometimes we speak to tragedy in really heartless ways. Think if your family is in Ukraine. Just think if your family's in Ukraine, you decide to tune into a Christian program. Oh, and by the way, all your family has been killed in the war. All your family is dead. Your family has died. You're here in the United States. Your family was in Ukraine. They've all been killed by Russia. And then you turn on a Christian radio program and say, hey, this war is horrible, but hey, God is on the move. Christ is at work. The gospel is working. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So this is the first thing I wrote down. God moving? God is moving? Now, to me, in my mind, if God is moving, the only thing I want God doing is bringing an end to the war. allowing people to be able to go back home, healing those who have been injured, raising the dead. I mean, if God is moving, that's what I want. I want there to be peace. I want there to be people safe and secure. I want this to end. I want the conflict to end. I want all the fighting to be over, not only the physical fighting, but the ideological fighting happening here in the United States of America over people suffering and dying. If you tell me God is moving in a war zone, then I want the war zone to now be a place of peace. They're happy that God is moving. And we'll talk about that in a minute, but I'm just seeing if, you know, hey, hey, hey, hey, look, I know, I know that over 11,000 civilians have died, but hey, God is moving. Hey, I know over 70,000 of your military have died. Hey, but God is moving. Hey, I know, you know, when it comes to Russia, I can't remember the number. Let me see here. How many? Over 60,000 Russian troops have died. Hey, but God is moving. God is at work. What? Sometimes we just say language because it's so, it's like built into Christianity, but we don't sometimes think of those implications. Hey, I know there was a massive school shooting and 20 people died, but hey, hey, God is moving. God is at work. You won't believe what God has been doing since, but the 20 kids are dead. Hey, but God is moving. Okay. well, why wouldn't God move to stop the shooter? Why wouldn't God move to stop the war? And I know you're not supposed to ask those questions on a Christian podcast. No, no, no, no, we're not. Why wouldn't we be the ones asking those questions? We should be the ones struggling. We should be the one facing these difficulties head on, because it is sometimes hard to understand there is a sovereign, omnipotent, omniscient God, and like, all I need right now is to stop that war. All I need right now is to heal that kid who's in the hospital tonight dying with cancer. All I need right now is, you know, on this Friday night, there's probably someone laying in a hospital bed who was hit by a drunk driver. Lord, Lord, please heal them. Right? That sometimes it's hard. So when you tell me, you know, Hey, we're, we're, we're, we're going to talk about how the God is moving in Ukraine. Okay. Well, they're going to make it a positive thing. Now, maybe, maybe it won't all be positive. You can go listen to it, but at least that right there at the beginning is like, they're trying to be more upbeat. And I don't know, I have a hard time with that. So I struggle with God is moving, but then I started thinking about a very important theological question, and I don't know if I have the right answer here, because I'm gonna struggle with this. So first, God is moving, I put a question mark down. Then second, I put peace or salvation. So let me throw this out there. Is the salvation of some worth 60,000 Russian troops, 70,000 Ukrainian troops, over 11,000 civilians, and millions displaced? Like if you say, hey, because of this war, now the gospel is moving. Because of this war, God is moving. If somehow God is moving because of the war, then is the war worth the salvation of some at that cost? Let's say 5,000 have become Christians. 5,000 now have a new faith in Christ, and it's arisen because of the war. Well, is that worth? Those? Could God not bring them to salvation without the war? I mean, did God need the war and all this death? Because sometimes that's how it works. Hey, hey, these horrible situations, but hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, look at the good. 5,000 people got saved. 10,000 people are reading their Bible. Isn't that worth it? And it, no, I don't, that's where I struggle. I don't know. Is the salvation of some worth the physical death of others? because then it gets really complicated. Now you're trying to calculate it from some, I don't know what kind of math you're using, right? Because many of those who died, what if they went to hell? So they go to hell so that others can be saved? I don't know. I think a sovereign God can work salvation and he doesn't need a war to do that. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. He can bring salvation. He doesn't need a war to do so. And if you say, well, no, sometimes people won't listen unless tragedy strikes. So then the tragedy is worth the fact that some now will listen while others are dying? I struggle with that. Sometimes this is where Christians would quote, hey, these people got saved and all things work together for good. Work together for good for whom? The people saved, not the people who died? I mean, look into the face of a child and say, hey, your father just died in the war, but hey, I want you to know because of this war and your father dying, there's some people who became saved. I don't know if they're going to... See, we say these things and I don't know if we really mean it that way. I struggle with that. I don't know. I struggle with that. On one hand, I understand the value of a human soul for eternity. I do understand that. But God can't get someone to eternity without thousands of people dying, without a war where people suffer. I don't buy that. I believe God can work salvation and he doesn't need a war to pull it off. Now, some people say, well, he doesn't need the war, but isn't it good that good came out of the war? Well, I guess if you want to measure good, yeah, that's good that these people got saved, but what about the people who died? I don't know how I measure that. We're going to talk about God moving and I'm like, okay, it's great that God is moving, but move to stop it. And then, well, people are getting saved. So is it peace or salvation? What is more important to you? That peace comes to Russia and Ukraine, hostilities stop, people can return to their homes, the rebuilding can begin, and the war comes to an end? Or let the war keep on going as long as the gospel now is moving? Is it the blood of humans in wartime that somehow fuels the gospel's movement. I just, I don't, I, that just seems bizarre and horrible to me. And I know we don't mean it that way. I know, I know Christian ministries don't mean to sound that way, but we don't sometimes hear what we are saying. You find out on social media here in the next 30 minutes that someone's in a panic because their child was just hit by a drunk driver, and they're barely hanging on in the hospital, and people are like, okay, okay, we're praying. Now, I do appreciate that, but then on the other hand, it's like, well, wait a minute, you're praying to the God who let him get hit by the drunk driver. I struggle with that. That's where I struggle with prayer, and I've already talked about that before. I'm not gonna sit here and lie and pretend, no. I cannot say that the salvation of thousands is worth the killing and the murder and the death of tens of thousands. Now, on one hand, I know, well, that eternal soul, that's more valuable than the human body. I do understand that. But those people who died, they also had an eternal soul. Now, if every single person who died went to heaven, and then as a result of their death, other people went to heaven, okay, then that's a, you know, then everyone wins. The people who died go to heaven, the people who are saved, everyone. Okay, but you know, and I know it didn't work that way. So number one, God is moving. Number two, peace or salvation. And number three, I am truly, truly baffled. by how many in the conservative world, you can listen to conservative talk radio, many of them will put forth Christian ideas or try to act like they're connected to Christianity and talk about the moral decline in this country and we need to get back to God and they'll talk about all that and then at the same time Putin is the hero, Russia is the hero and Ukraine is evil. How dare we do anything to help those people in Ukraine? Who cares?" And you're like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. A country invades another country and people die and then our Christian response is, well, you know, I guess they had it coming. I don't know that the Ukrainians are the Nazis and Russia is the, I don't know, the people coming to, you know, free everyone from the concentration camp. It's so weird how everything has flipped upside down. And I'm sitting there going, on the morning of February the 24th, 2022, Russia invaded another country and killing people. may not understand all of the politics and all the history but that is an act of aggression upon another sovereign country. Now you say well maybe they don't believe it's a sovereign country because they don't recognize their independence. Okay well then you know maybe Mexico decides to attack Texas because they don't recognize our independence that we declared on March the 2nd. How about I don't know people from Europe come back to America and say, we don't recognize your independence. It's just weird. I don't understand the whole thing. So God is moving, I guess. Everyone's saying God is moving, Christ is moving, at least some Christian ministries are, but yet war continues. We're at the anniversary. hey, salvation is happening. And it's like, well, are we happy about the salvation? Now, maybe we can be both, broken and crying out to God that he would bring peace, at the same time rejoice over the salvation. Maybe there's a balanced way, okay? Maybe there's a balanced way. Just sometimes I feel like we don't add the layers and the nuance. And then I don't get how Russia has become the hero in this. I just do not understand that. And I guess the last thing, I didn't write this one down, is just, I don't know the proper balance and how to look at the suffering and tragedy happening all around me, happening in the world, and yet, at the same time, live my life. I have to live my life. I have to. I mean, you have to. You gotta be able to go on with your life. You have fun, you laugh, you cry, you love, you do all the things that a human being does, and you struggle with your own difficulties, and the suffering in other places does not negate your own struggles and your own feelings and your own emotions. It doesn't do that. We should never preach it in a way that says, hey, other people have it worse than us, and so we should just be happy, happy, happy, happy. I mean, we can try to say that, but all you really do is damage people psychologically. It doesn't work that way. Other people's suffering does not negate your, does not make your suffering somehow less than. I think we got to be careful with that. But at the same time, We sometimes do need to take a seat, a step back and look and go, man, my situation may be bad, but it isn't as bad as that. At least, I'm not saying it changes your feelings, but at least hopefully it tries to make us a little bit more grateful and appreciate what we do have, because obviously it can all be taken away relatively quick. Maybe it's not about making me feel like, well, my problems are so small compared to their problem. I think it's more about just being grateful for what I do have. doesn't mean I still don't get struggle with, you know, I struggle with the situations I'm currently facing. I'm been struggling, you know, not being able to sleep and I've been, you know, man, I've had actual physical issues because of everything, mental, emotional. been just like in turmoil through all of this. I want some kind of peace. I want some sign. I want my problems to go away. But then at the same time, compared to that, they're nothing. But at the same time, my feelings are real. But at the same time, maybe I should be grateful for what I do have. I don't know that balance. I don't really have, I don't really have answers for any of these, but it just hit me hard that right now is the, for many of you, it's already the anniversary. It's February. Well, I mean, it's the same day. It happened at 5 a.m., but then you can look at that time zone for your time zone. So maybe it's already, the anniversary has already begun for many. But you know what, tomorrow, I'm just going to be honest with you. Tomorrow, because it's still February the 23rd here, but so tomorrow, February the 24th, 2024, I'm just going to be honest with you. You know what I'm going to be doing tomorrow? I'm going to be watching a big professional wrestling event that is happening in Australia in just about, I don't know, four, about four and a half hours from now. So I'm going to watch it about noon, and people are going to come over, and we're going to have food, and we're going to have drinks, and hopefully we're going to have a great time. And then after that, who knows? I don't know what else I may do. I may check out and see what's going on in the world of college basketball, or maybe a check and see if there's any boxing going on, or any UFC, or who knows? I may read my Bible. I may listen to music. I may read a book. I may read comic books. I don't know. I'm going to live my life, and I'm just being honest with you. Now, I'm not saying that we shouldn't do that. that. But while I'm doing all of that, there's going to be people suffering. And I don't know the balance there either. I just know this, when as Christians, when suffering and tragedy happens, we got to be, I think, sometimes thoughtful when we say things like, God is moving! God! Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Just how is that? How does that sound? And I think we got to be careful when we almost say, hey, I know this great tragedy happened, but salvation came from it. Yeah, but How do you measure that? Because people died. People are dying. People are going to continue to die. And then how did Russia become the good guys? I don't understand that. And then how do we find that balance between our life, living our life, and the pain and suffering of those around us in the world? I don't know. I don't have it figured out. I don't. I know pastors love to pretend that we have it figured out. We don't. No, Christians don't. We're just struggling. We're sinful people trying to figure all of this out like anybody else. So at this late hour, I just wanted to turn on the microphone just to say, hey, it's the anniversary of a horrible, horrible thing that's still unfolding in real time. Russia invaded Ukraine and people continue to die. some believe it may be getting closer and closer to the end and that Russia is going to win this and then I guess then we just move on and be okay well Russia took over and now Ukraine belongs to Russia again okay and all these people died and all right we'll just move on I guess that's I guess that's how we just that's how life will go I guess I don't know but to be honest be fair the situation in Israel and Gaza. I've kind of moved on with that as well. You can email me your thoughts, newsif at yahoo.com. Newsif at yahoo.com. That's newsif at yahoo.com. Newsif at yahoo.com. February the 24th, 2022, at about 5 a.m. in the morning, began the Russian invasion of Ukraine. February the 24th, 2024, is the two-year anniversary. Thanks for listening. God bless.