Welcome to Watchman on the Wall, a daily outreach of Southwest Radio Ministries and SWRC.com. God is still on the throne and prayer changes things. Today, Donna Howell shares more details into what may have been happening before Genesis. And I have a special update on some exciting projects happening here at Southwest Radio Ministries. As we're getting closer to the Christmas season, be sure and visit the gifts section of our website, swrc.com. Gifts from Israel, as well as books and DVDs that will inform and encourage your family and friends. Visit swrc.com today. That's swrc.com. Author and researcher Donna Howell is back today, ready to continue revealing her research on what God's first enemy did to Earth in the days that it was without form and void. And what may really have happened during the days of Adam. In our previous broadcast, we were visiting with Donna Howell. She and Dr. Tom Horne have written a new book, Before Genesis, The Unauthorized History of Tohu Bohu and the Chaos Dragon in the Land Before Time. Donna, thank you so much for being with us once again. I'm really looking forward to this second program. Thanks for having me on again, Larry. It's an honor. You've identified Lucifer as a serpentine king-priest whose kingdom was and is earth, but a king has subjects also. So what pre-Adamite race was the king over in earth's earlier stages? Right, so to kind of collapse what I'm sure a lot of listeners are probably getting nervous about, we are not talking about a human pre-Adamic race. We're not, in other words, we're not talking about another race of humans that were made in the image of God that existed prior to Adam. I want to get that one out of the way because The word pre-Adamite tends to make a lot of people assume that we're referring to that. And Adam was unique in his being made with the image of God. No other creation of God ever shares that dynamic. That was unique. But on the other hand, the Bible to some degree does force the idea of A, race of beings alive on this planet before Adam. And I'll show you how really quickly. A, angels were created before Adam. B, all angels were beings of intelligence. C, a third of them fell. Most scholars see that straight out of the book of Revelation. A third of them fell and became evil. And when they did, D, Earth was their home. We also see over in Luke 4, 5 through 6 that Satan still has authority over all of the kingdom of earth. So he is a king and earth is his kingdom. And as far as the priestly garments, we do get this out of Ezekiel and Isaiah. It talks about how he's the anointed cherub who is covered in precious stones. Well, if the stones are literal, as many scholars assume that they are, then Lucifer had ceremoniously received the anointing that consecrates one to follow the Lord and lead others to do so in the same manner as the kings and the priests of the Old Testament. So with that in mind, looking at who his subjects might have been, the pre-Adamic idea, okay, first of all, the fallen angels, that one's the obvious one. But once we take out of the picture ancient astronauts and Darwinian monkey men and all of those things that belong to what many scholars in the 1800s were simply referring to as the era of the fossils because they contained unexplainable phenomena that science appears to be dating to way before Adam came into the picture. What are they? We can get into that in a moment, but specifically I want to address a couple of extra biblical writings. Eusebius, A very, very well-respected church historian said that this time on Earth saw the formation of all kinds of dragon-like monstrous beings. It's not difficult, Larry, to see the link between Lucifer, Satan, the Chaos Dragon Leviathan, and serpents and reptiles. So you have serpents and reptiles and all of this. What does that sound like? Well, what does the word dinosaur mean? It comes from the Greek dinos, which means terribly great or fearfully great, and sauros, which means lizard, lizard family. So their name literally means terribly great lizards or frighteningly great lizards. But science itself, even secular science, acknowledges that dinosaurs in the very, very beginning, were about the size of a German shepherd or a Saint Bernard at most, and that they probably were not even carnivores. They probably ate leaves. What do we read of God's creation? In Genesis 1.30, we read that God created beings, creatures of all different kinds, shapes, sizes, but they lived on leaves. They had trees and plants for their food. Suddenly, we get into this era that we can't explain, where God's creation, prior to the fall of Adam, if scientific dating of these dinosaur bones is correct, way before Adam was in the picture, these dinosaurs became carnivorous. that could not have been God's creation. So what were Luciferian subjects in the era of the with that form and void? These monstrous savage-like beasts that roamed the earth, they were the kings of the planet. They were reptilian in their nature. They were dragon-like in their nature. Everything from their nature to the way that they are described as being carnivorous savage beasts floats right into being linked to the nature of Lucifer and Lucifer was here on earth and he was fallen prior to Adam. He was there in the garden when Adam was created. The Nakash or the shining serpentine figure was in the garden when Adam came onto the picture so something clearly fell before and Tom and I come from from this position. Jubilees 5 and 7 also acknowledge this and that all flesh on earth corrupted its way, man and cattle and beasts and birds and everything which walked on earth and they began to eat each other. And nothing ate meat in God's design. What on earth are we looking at here? Dead Sea Scrolls from Cave 4 describes a fallen era void watcher, Malkorisha, who is literally described as a viper, a venomous snake. modern-day scholars like J.R. Church of Prophecy in the news. He says that the warped, void-era creatures were designed with the DNA code of a reptilian race. And then, of course, there's legends from all over the world that also acknowledge, like the Native American Anasazi tribe's legend of a carnivorous reptile being who misled humanity. So this goes on and on and on. At some point in the historical timeline, as George Pember of Earth's earliest ages acknowledged, The fossil remains indicate pre-Adamite ages of sin, for they, he's talking about dinosaurs, may be proved to be the relics not of the six days of recreation or restoration, but of rather earlier creations, for as the fossil remains clearly show, not only were disease and death inseparable companions of sin, also prevalent among the living creatures of the earth, but also ferocity and slaughter. So he goes on and on. They must have belonged to another world and have a sin-stained history of their own. And this is really interesting. Now, Tom's theory, to round out your question and hand it back to you, Tom's theory, the Chicxulub crater that took out the dinosaurs, as science says, 66 million years ago, It's interesting that that name means the devil's tail. Chicxulub means devil's tail. And Jesus himself saw Satan fall as lightning from heaven to earth in Luke 10 18. So was Lucifer this Chicxulub crater? That's the question Tom asks. It's interesting. Very, very interesting. Well, as you point out, the dinosaurs were reptilian in nature, and if scientific dating is correct, they've been extinct since this Void Era that you've been talking about. Could Lucifer's fall be connected with the extinction of the dinosaurs? That is exactly the theory that I was covering a moment ago, but let me take it even a step further. This part's interesting. Lucifer as a fifth watcher. Now, when you're looking at the four watchers that are the representatives of creation from Ezekiel 1, Ezekiel 10, and Revelation 4, We see these creatures, they are directly referred to as cherubs. One has the face of a man, representing mankind. One of them has the face of a lion, representing wild, undomesticated animals of the lands, forests, and fields. Another one has the face of the ox, which represents the domestic animals that can be made to serve humanity. And then we've got one with the face of the eagle, which represents the part of creation that is aviation, or in the air. You notice that we don't have a representative of the last two remaining areas of creation, aquatic and reptilian. Well, if Lucifer and Leviathan, the dragon of chaos, that was, as many scholars believe, the very chaos dragon that the Holy Spirit was hovering over the waters of the deep in the very first two verses of Genesis to keep that evil contained. If that Leviathan is connected with Lucifer in nature, in literary form, in any way at all, then we might be seeing that the fallen Lucifer might have at some point been the representative cherub that was praising God and representing God in these verses, and he might have actually been the representative of the aquatic and the reptilian species. Right, so that gets covered. Well, friends, we are visiting with Donna Howell. She and Dr. Tom Horne have written a very well-researched and thought-out book before Genesis. The book claims to bring harmony to the Old Earth-Young Earth debate, and I think Donna addressed that just a few minutes ago. Our toll-free number is 1-800-652-1144. Donna, there are historical artifacts and archaeological sites all over the world, and I know that is a fact, and of course you do as well. They predate Adam's time. They point to serpent worship and silently testify of an early ancient intelligence on the earth. Give us some examples of this intelligence. To slam-dunk just a few examples, first of all, we have what is known as the Gate of the Sun in Tiahuanaco. That's one that gets less attention. But some archaeologists have dated this to between 12,000 to 14,000 years old. And they do that in part due to the archaeoastronomical nature. Archaeoastronomy is the way that we understand how the ancients viewed the stars, equinoxes, solstices, how they studied what was going on with space bodies. and the way that they've designed this gate makes a lot of archaeologists look at similar findings in approximately the 12,000 to 14,000 years old in range. First of all, this gate features a round earth, not the flat earth of ancient thought. It details astrological phenomena in relation to equinoxes and solstices. It has the latitudinal position of civilization as it would have appeared on a GPS system at the time. It features the obliquity of the ecliptic or the axial tilt. In other words, it understands the alignments and the angles between the Earth's rotational axis and its orbital axis. It has complex mathematics, including the correct ratio of pi, square roots, degree angles, and their practical trigonometrical uses in construction and astronomy. This is extreme intelligence. And it's extreme intelligence that if we're even close to correct in understanding an understanding atom to have come around at approximately 4004 BC, This is so prior to Adam. Who built these things, interestingly, at these sites? And let me tell you about the top of the Gate of the Sun. At the top is Viracocha, also known as a different god, Quetzalcoatl, who is a sea-traveling serpent god who created the giants of Genesis 6-4 theology. We get into these weird moments where we're like, okay, first of all, who could have built this? Who could have known all of this stuff? Why are they evidently worshipping serpents in the iconography that they've left behind? Not only does all of that point to a Luciferian origin that we cannot explain, but Tiahuanaco is just under 13,000 feet in elevation. A human would not be able to live there for longer than three or four days because it is fatal to them. They would develop pulmonary or cerebral edema or other fatalities because of the high elevation. They're hyperventilating. They can't stay there long enough to carve all of this and yet we know that Tiahuanaco was inhabited for at least half a century. How? Now, I don't know if we'll have time to get into it on today's program, but the same could be said for some of the serpentine worship findings straight out of Gobekli Tepe. That one's famous for its serpent worship. Karahan Tepe, the sister site, has a half-man, half-snake character that watches over this room where, family-friendly show, I won't say what is in that room, but there's some things growing up from the floor that are very adult in their nature. And when the sun shines, Talk about the astrological importance, right? The sun shines directly up into the snake man's face and lights it up in a religiously ritualistic way. And experts of this site have even said that they believe this man is Enki, a serpentine Nephilim god and god of water again, going back to Genesis 6, 1 through 4. So, all of these ancient sites, they point to this over and over and over again. I want to point out that the Bible itself also possibly identifies these sites. Listen to this, in Jeremiah 4, 23 through 27, I beheld the earth and lo, it was, watch this, without form and void. So it's pointing directly to the Tohu Vabohu era of Genesis 1 and 2. And all of the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the Lord said, the whole land shall lie desolate." What? This is Tohu Vabohu context. It's context. What verse is that? I want to hear it again. Jeremiah 4. 23 through 27, that whole discussion is happening in that passage. So the question is, what cities are we talking about? When the land was Tohu Vabohu, that's very back in Genesis 1.1 and 1.2. The cities were broken down? What's he talking about? There's another one over in Isaiah 14, 16 through 17, "...they that see thee," he's talking to Lucifer here, about Lucifer here, "...shall narrowly look upon thee and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble and that did shake kingdoms, that made the world as a wilderness and destroyed the cities thereof?" Another one that is falling directly into the Tohu Vabohu context of the moment in time when our Earth was without form and void in English, Tohu Vabohu in Hebrew. So the Bible itself even addresses these ancient cities. The cities show incredible intelligence, so it boils down to this. If these cities are apparently Genesis 6-4 and Nephilim and serpent worship in their nature, but they predate the flood and they predate Adam, then what are we looking at? It seems to be that we're looking at way before the Nephilim of Genesis 6-4 came along. Lucifer had already corrupted creation in some way. And now we get into those weird Darwinian monkey man bones. What are those? They're not human. They don't truly connect to us. Even secular sciences say that they truly don't connect to us the way we hope that they will in our genealogical pool. So at some point, did something exist? I'm talking bipedal. They possibly walked around on two legs. They might have even been some level of intelligence, but they certainly were not human and they were not made in the image of God. But we might have a biblical answer for what those Darwinian monkey men and dinosaurs and everything else were. When you're talking about the serpent, I think part of the curse was that the serpent, the snake, would walk on its belly. If it's going to walk on its belly as a result of the curse, what was before? So intelligent creatures, they had legs. Snake had legs. I mean, I'm putting all of this together, and this is leading kind of into a new part of the woods. I've never been here before, but I'm following you. Is that kind of where you're going? Well, I'll tell you one thing, if you look at these Darwinian monkey men and you look at their bones of how their face is shaped, yes, you can see a monkey in there, but you can also see the blunt-nosed viper, and a lot of people don't talk about that. These bones, first of all, I know that they're not human, the Bible tells me so. Nothing before Adam could have been human made in the image of God. But were they there? And are they a real thing that existed? And did they worship something that wasn't okay? I think that the Bible makes that clear collectively. That's very fascinating. Well, does the Bible say anything about all of these archaeological ruins? They're all over the world. I know some of the films that you guys have made and so forth, they're there. So what does the scripture say about this? One of the final questions I want to ask, give us the outline of the book. What does it cover, and how does it do it? Right. We broke the book into three parts. The first part is called The Great Debate, and it covers a lot of the popular questions that arise between the young Earthers and the old Earthers. To list a couple of examples, the day-age conundrum. When it says that God created something in a day, did he mean day, or did he mean age? That's addressed. when God created, that's the Hebrew word bera or bara. Is it one or the other? One means created out of nothing. One means created out of existing matter. That is addressed in the book. So we cover a lot of the popular things that are in the Great Debate, including what science, secular sciences, have to say about the Old Earth. And then part two talks about supporting evidence of the Old Earth. like scientific dating methods, old sites like Gobekli Tepe and Baalbek, out-of-place artifacts, artifacts that show intelligence that are so predating when that intelligence is supposed to be around, as far as more topics on what could have been the pre- Adam, race is alive on the earth, and then part three closes out the book with more details about the Serpent King and what the void really looked like. What was really going on during Earth's without form and void era? Who were the key players during that time and their biblical descriptions? Lucifer, Leviathan, fallen angels, and what English theologians like George H. Pember, who was author of The Groundbreaking Earth's Earliest Ages, what he called the era of the fossils. What was really going on in that particular time? So the book rounds out and closes out that direction. And the last statement made in the book is, listen, There is so much division between denominations in the church right now. Larry, brother against brother, fighting every day. If we could just respect another view, you don't even have to believe it, but if you can just respect it, we could see a big harvest coming. The church could explode. Why wouldn't we want that? I remember my work with Noah Hutchings for many years. He liked the Pilgrim study Bible, and I think some of the notes reflected some of Pember's ideas, and I've often found that very interesting because, You know, I just, I didn't question anything. I just thought about it. But Donna, thank you so much for being in the studio with us. These two shows, we of course do a lot of telephone interviews, but I love having you and your mom here right with us. So once again, friends, the title of the book, Before Genesis by Donna Howell and Dr. Tom Ford. The complete two-day presentation by Donna Howell is available on CD. Simply call 1-800-652-1144. That's 1-800-652-1144. What occurred between God and Lucifer before the time of Adam is explored in the brand new book entitled, Before Genesis. Dr. Tom Horn and his research assistant Donna Howell have waded through thousands of scholarly journals, books, articles, videos, and other media to present an astounding work like none other. Let me encourage you, make sure you order yourself a copy of the brand new book, Before Genesis. simply call 1-800-652-1144. That's 1-800-652-1144. Or you can order at our website, swrc.com. Before Genesis by Tom Horn. 1-800-652-1144. Today, across the world, it is known as Giving Tuesday. It's a perfect time then to give you an update on some exciting projects that are happening right now at Southwest Radio Ministries. I have three projects that I want to tell you about and ask you to pray, and if so, led to support financially these special projects. Up first is the post-production that's taking place on our Israel films. You may remember the end of August, first part of September, a team went from Southwest Radio Ministries and traveled to Israel and Jordan. There, they took a professional film crew and filmed five episodic television series, two documentaries, and a number of short features, all teaching God's Word in the land of Israel and Jordan, including Petra. Well, thankfully, the team was able to return safely to the United States a mere few weeks before the war broke out in Israel. Well, now we have all of this wonderful, professionally filmed footage of the documentaries and the television series, and they need to be edited. They need to be placed together properly with the correct B-roll footage, the correct imagery, graphics, and all of that. It's called editing, and another way to put that is post-production. And so, that costs money, of course. Thanks to a very generous gift from a supporter of Southwest Radio Ministries, we were able to travel to Israel and hire the professional film crew. And now we need some additional financial support to be able to finish the post-production, to finish the editing, to finish putting all of the footage together to be able to release it to you. Last week, we debuted our very first film project from that trip in Israel, and that was the DVD, Heritage Under Attack, with Larry Spargimino, Josh Davis, and Avi Lipkin. And that was filmed high atop overlooking the city of Jerusalem when we were there just a few short months ago. We have many, many more projects that we would like to release and that need to be released, and we can do that with your help. So please be praying, and if you feel led, to financially support this effort to help get these projects edited and put together in post-production so that we can then release them to the public as quickly as possible, that would be greatly appreciated. So the Israel Post production, that is one big project going on right now here at Southwest Radio Ministries. Another one I want to tell you about is our video podcasting studio. Again, thanks to the generosity of a number of people, we have been able to begin and get quite a ways down the road on a video podcasting studio. What is that? Well, so podcasting is the audio version of this daily program and other programs that we have in various forms of production that we're waiting to release. Video podcasting is exactly what it sounds like, where we film the video part of the host presenting their information in the form of a podcast, hence a video podcast. The studio is almost finished. It's time to finish putting up the walls, putting in the carpet, and the most important part is providing the needed equipment. The cameras, the microphones, all the cording, the computer software, the switcher, all of those types of pieces of equipment are needed, and for that, It has a pretty price tag on it and so we're needing some funds to be able to finish out our video podcasting studio. So just one more awesome item for you to be praying about, the video podcasting studio. And then finally today I want to tell you about another great project that we've been working on and that is a complete overhaul of our website. SWRC.com. It is in great need of being updated, of being refreshed, not just from a cosmetic standpoint by meaning the way it looks, but also its functionality so that we will be able to bring to you all of our podcasts, this daily radio program, brand new podcasts, and to be able to easily provide our articles, our publications, some brand new audiobooks, and to be able to present to you the ability to digitally download from your computer, your smartphone, your tablet, all of our video resources. With this new website, you'll be able to download to your device all of the different videos, and we have thousands and thousands of teaching videos that are available. Well, right now they're available in DVD form, and a lot of people like that, and that's great. But we've heard from you, and there are a number of folks, quite a few in fact, that have said they would like to be able to digitally download that. Well, to make that happen, we need to overhaul and update our website. And we can do that, but it is, again, an expensive proposition to make happen. What occurred between God and Lucifer before the time of Adam is explored in the brand new book, Before Genesis. Order Before Genesis by Tom Horne today when you call 1-800-652-1144. That's 1-800-652-1144. Or you can order at the website swrc.com. Tomorrow, Carl Gallups will begin a deep dive into God's threshold covenant. Be sure to tune in on your favorite radio station or by subscribing to our daily Watchman on the Wall podcast. Watchman on the Wall is a production of Southwest Radio Ministries and is supported by faithful listeners like you. Visit SWRC.com.