You are listening to a message from Sound Words. To find information about our ministry, please visit our website at soundwords.org. You can also download our free app from iTunes or Google Play to access more great sermons. I have a couple of things I want to mention to you or focus attention on. Then I'll open it up for questions. I think I mentioned to you what I'd like to do as we move into the year. Mix things up. I have a few short studies I'd like to do. So I'll mix those in. It may take a week or two or three or four. And mix the questions and answers in with those. So we'll see how the year develops. Maybe I'll start off telling you a little bit about just a brief comment on our finances. The Board of Elders met this past week, and Carol came in and updated us to give you a more detailed explanation of the finances and have some charts. But that'll be around March when Carol's able to pull everything together in final form. But just a couple of figures I think you'll be encouraged with. We have about $325,000 we'll have here in the next couple of weeks as our loans that we still have. People have loaned money to the church, $325,000. But if you took the cash we have on hand and so on, really our net debt is down around $65,000. So when you think not too long ago, a few years ago, that debt was $3 million. You see what the Lord has done. So we praise the Lord for another good year, your faithfulness, the way the Lord continues to provide, and we look forward to a good year here. But we'll get more details on that as we have that, and like I say, as we did last year, we'll do some charts and that. Just wanted to encourage you with those numbers. The net debt is if we took the cash we have on hand at the bank and we keep a certain amount of cash in the bank for things that may come up. Now we could use that. We also have a line of credit at the bank. But if we took all our cash and paid off our debt, we would be getting down close to it all taken care of. So something to be thankful for. We sometimes talk about social issues and material I get at home. This is a, I guess it's a missions magazine. I'm familiar with the mission and at least the person involved in it. But it reminds me of what happens when you get into social things, they soon eat up everything else. And somewhere the gospel gets lost, but it's still like we're doing missions. And there's a magazine and I mean, what they do, this is from this mission, they reach out to particularly women who were in difficult situations in other countries, Bolivia. And certainly it's helped women there with their physical situation, their social situation, and so on. But in my going through, I don't think the name of Christ is mentioned once. And there's testimonies from different women and how they were helped. but it all is how I was being exploited and I didn't have anywhere to go. Then they came and helped me and taught me some skills so that I could, and you can order goods in here that are made by these individuals, different kind of items, like you might get if you travel to some of the Latin American countries. And nothing wrong with that, but is that really biblical missions? used to be that was carrying the gospel to lost people. I'm not against helping people like this, but is that really what we are called to do with missions? So I think what happens is these things start out and we're going to, you know, do these two things. But over time, the gospel gets lost. And so in a way, you know, it saddens me. And you got all these, here's this lady's story, and this lady's story, and then the different programs they have, and then another lady's story. But none of them have anything to do with, I heard the gospel and I trusted Christ, and he cleansed me from my sin, and the life that I had lived, or made me new, and gave me hope. The gospel is just not there. It's just a social program. It could be run by the government. So, it just concerns me when I read this. I don't care to mention the name of the mission, but it's got a good name. It sounds biblical, but it just doesn't have anything to do with what the Bible talks about missions. So, part of my concern on social issues when they... get worked in. If we're not careful, they eat things up. I'm not talking about individuals of us doing good things, helping neighbors, being good neighbors, helping people in trouble. But we want to be careful to keep our focus on what the ministry of the church is. Okay. I had a question. Could you define ultra-dispensationalism? And if I repeat myself, it's because I didn't remember that I did it. But ultra-dispensationalism really connected with a man's name of Bullinger. We're probably not as familiar with it. It's not as much a current issue. He lived primarily during the 1800s. He was born in 1837 and died a dozen or so years after the turn of the century into the 1900s. But what do ultra-dispensationalists do? There's two kinds of them. We're dispensationalists. They're ultra-dispensationalists. They make divisions that we wouldn't seem biblical. So they see the first part of Acts We have just a Jewish church. So they make a division in Acts chapter 9. you know, with Paul's conversion, and it varies. Some of them make it at Acts chapter 9, some make it at Acts chapter 13, but you can see. Then we will have a totally new church, a Gentile church. So it's ultra-dispensation because it's dividing and creating additional dispensations, if you will, beyond what normal dispensations would. The extreme ultra-dispensationalists don't have the church until after the Book of Acts as we have it. So they go, the whole Book of Acts is a different dispensation and then we get to the Gentile church with Paul's letters and so on. So that gives a different perspective on the Book of Acts, certain things going on, certain things that are acceptable to them and not acceptable. But it's not as prevalent today as one of those new things, and it was around, but it sort of has diminished. I didn't check to see how prevalent it is today, but it's that I come across in my general theological readings, That would be ultra-dispensationalism, and they divide it into moderate or extreme. The moderate break it at Acts chapter 9 or Acts chapter 13, the extreme, at the end of the book of Acts. And that would mean you do some different things, have different views about baptism, its place, and some of those doctrinal things that they would say we don't see carried over into the epistles or emphasized. They also ask about neo-orthodoxy. I've talked a little bit about that. Neo-orthodoxy. Neo means new. It's the new orthodoxy. Probably the most familiar name, generally, is Karl Barth. And he came up as a reaction to the extreme liberalism going on out of Germany, that it was a corrective. He thought they had gone too far. So he came up with, he's viewed as a major figure this doctrine, but it's not biblically sound. Here was a reaction, and the liberals had gone too far, so there was a great response and thought, oh, this is great, he's calling people back to the Bible, back to the truths of the Word of God, but it was, it's not. I am amazed at how many evangelicals are interested in it and pay so much attention to them. I guess there's a place in studying the history of theology, I don't think he had anything to offer to evangelical, biblical Christianity. For example, they've talked about, oh, he had a different level. In other words, he had a strong emphasis on a personal experience with Christ. Well, say, well, that's not bad. We want people to have a personal relationship. Well, his personal experience supersedes the word. The word becomes secondary to that, and he redefines it. I've mentioned this before, but I use the resurrection as the example. It doesn't matter about the historical facts, like was Jesus bodily raised from the dead or not? It's not, it doesn't matter that much. What really matters is if you have a resurrection experience with Christ. Now you begin to say, well, I'm not sure I understand what he's talking about. Well, you're not scholarly. This is his answer. So it's not really biblical. He really redoes scripture. So it's not orthodoxy as we would think of it in being true to the Word of God. But it was a great movement in a sense to the direction we ought to recognize the Bible as authoritative. and so on. And it seemed well with the ultra-liberalism that had permeated German theology and so on, this was a call back to orthodoxy. Well, it's not a new orthodoxy. It's just a redressed liberalism in that it doesn't believe the foundational truths of the scripture. Can you have a, quote, resurrection experience with Christ if Christ wasn't raised from the dead? There is a super church, a super truth above just historical truth. So you go to that higher level. I don't read Karl Barth. I'm not a scholar, so I don't have to read it. And there's too much good stuff I like to read, but if you read very much in theology, there'll be people referring to Karl Barth. I'm sure he's viewed. I read some that said he is the most outstanding theologian of that period of time. But if I look at it biblically, I look for people who are true to the word of God. So I wouldn't put Karl Barth in the category of Christian in a biblical sense. That's my observation on that. So don't bother reading Neo-Orthodox material. You could read in any theology, good theology, that they'll give you a section on Neo-Orthodoxy because if you're studying theology you want to know something about that. Ends his book on theology. Others will bring in and explain a little bit about the details of Neo-Orthodoxy. Got a question about, should Christians use someone's preferred pronoun? For example, a man who prefers to be called she. Should we use their preferred pronoun so as not to offend them, or would it encourage sinful behavior? It's a day in which we live, isn't it? You feel like you have to ask a person, what are you, so I can address you properly. I'm not ready to move to call a man a woman. Now, he can refer to himself however he wants. I wouldn't be using those pronouns because God says what we are. I mean, we're in Alice in Wonderland. We're in the make-believe world. You can be whatever you want to be. And if you don't join this make-believe world, you're a bad person. You're a hateful person. I mean, it's all right when little kids pretend things, but if somebody comes walking in on all fours and says, I'm a dog, please refer to me as Bow Wow. I mean, am I really going to pretend this is reality? Now I realize the pressures get building on for us as Christians it could get worse very rapidly because certain things are not acceptable anymore and you're considered a hateful person if you don't join in this game but I'm not going to refer to a man as she or a woman as he it's a difficult situation you're in a classroom now they want you teachers to allow the student to be who they want to be where does it go? you realize sin makes you stupid and it is stupid if your little child wants to pretend he's a dog that's fine if your 20 year old wants to pretend he's a dog you say snap out of it But now we got adults playing this game. You're not allowed to put on a birth certificate in some places, whether it's a male or female. Because you don't know yet. They haven't told you. There's no anchor. And now you see how rapidly things deteriorate in our world, in our country. as any concept of decency, law and order, respect because everybody has become a law to themselves. So all that to say the Bible makes clear God made in the beginning and people who claim to be Christians claim that they can hold this. Jesus said in the beginning God made them male and female. So he puts his stamp on that. So you can't say, well, I don't believe Genesis, but I believe what Jesus said. Well, Jesus said in the beginning, God made them male and female. So I would not be comfortable using the pronouns. Now, if you're in a certain situation, your job requires something, you may have to do a little bit of finagling, call them by their name. So every time I had to refer to them, I'd refer to them by their name instead of she or he, I guess. Now they can have their name whatever they want it to be. It's a world that's squeezing any room for Christians out because the whole world lies in the evil one. And you notice how quickly the world responds to sin and that becomes acceptable. And those who oppose that certain sinful behavior are the bad people. And we don't want them in our society. If you say anything against, we'll just leave it at homosexuality, I know that's become a pejorative term, but the various names they use for it, you're a hateful person. You're making them feel unwelcome. And then you're the problem. You should be removed. You know, what did the Russians do with people? They put them in mental institutions. How long will it be before they come knock at your door as a Christian? You are a problem. Joe and I lived in Washington State for many years, and that kind of lifestyle is open on the streets. My question, we came up Somebody asked me about it a few weeks ago here at church. And what my comment was is that there are no degrees in sin. So why do we look at homosexuals as worse than other sinners? Okay. I don't particularly view them as worse than other sinners in the one sense. Sinners are going to hell because they're sinners whatever form their fallen sinful nature manifests itself however it manifests itself unredeemed people are going to hell the most moral quote in our eyes upstanding you know this was the problem of the jews and the pharisees we're not sinners like other people we wouldn't do those particular things but jesus called them out In fact, those people you think are so sinful are going to get into the kingdom before you. Because your problem is you don't see yourself as sinful. So I want to be careful. That's why we don't make a big issue. These Christians sometimes jump on issues. And I don't want to give people the idea. I don't want, and I don't think, that's why I don't address it a lot at Indian Hills, because everybody here agrees. Sex outside of marriage is sin. Homosexuality is sin. So if I just concentrate on that, it gives the idea what? We think religious people who don't practice those things are with us. Conservative politically, and so they might oppose certain things, and we agree with, so they're just as much on their way to hell. So I want to be careful. I think that's a valid point. We don't focus on it a lot. I don't want to just pick out an issue that's the hot button issue, but I don't think anybody that's familiar with Indian Hills from inside or outside has any question about our position. The Bible's clear. Homosexuality is sin. They'll say, well, people are born that way. I don't disagree with that because we were what? born sinners. In sin did my mother conceive me. David said I was a sinner from birth. So in a sense you're right. And we maybe have certain different tendencies towards sin. I read an article from a man who was a Harvard graduate with a doctorate And he had a desire for what we call pedophilia. He says, I was born this way. Why can't you people accept that? There's a variety of sin. Everybody doesn't gravitate to the same sinful behavior. But it's sin. So I want to be clear on sin. Homosexuality becomes clear because it's an open violation of that which is, quote, natural. It's contrary to nature. Just like calling a man a woman and a woman a man. You know, our defiance becomes more open and more clear. There's just the determination, I will be God. But it's people who have lived in monogamous marriages and never done anything and never been drunk in their life, never been immoral in their life, went to church or mass or synagogue or whatever every day. They're going to die and go to hell. So I don't want to leave the impression, well, it's these people that are the real Bad people. We're reaching here with the gospel. People are lost. They're sinners. They're born that way. So if somebody says, it's not fair. I was born this way. I don't doubt you were born that way. I was born a sinner like you. I don't maybe have the same draw to the same desire to commit the same sins you do. But that doesn't make me any less a sinner. Because the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked above all things. So, you know, when we get to Romans 1, God gives emphasis to what we call homosexuality. But he lists all the other sins there too. All evidences of rebellion against God. So yeah, I think we want to be clear. Somebody asked me, do you think homosexuality is sin? It depends on who's asking. Because I wanna be careful I don't get led down a road that this person thinks maybe because they're not a homosexual that they're okay. They may say, don't you think homosexuality's terrible? Well, if that's a non-believer, a very religious person that is not a believer in Jesus Christ, I wanna maybe direct the conversation, you know? You know what's really terrible? The fact that we are sinners and rebellion against God and their sin is evident to me. But you know what? God says my sin is just as evident to him because he's looking at my heart. I don't want to get drawn into the, yeah, we agree. They're the worst ones. They're the dirty one. So I want to be careful that I'm not light on sin. But I'm not selective on sin. And I think the church has pretty well come to that. We don't view lying the same way we view immorality. When's the last time we disciplined somebody for lying? Immorality, well that's a bad one. Disobedient to parents, you know what you did in the Old Testament if your child wouldn't listen to you? Yeah. You know what they did? They took him to the elders and he was stoned. Well, it was a serious sin, you know? We want to be careful that, you know, we become somewhat self-righteous and we just like, that sin is so bad, I just, oh, that just disgusts me. But remember, God put up with you when you were lost. We were enemies, Paul wrote to the Ephesians. We were lost in our sin, dead in our sins. You know, sometimes Christians begin to forget that. So then we focus, these are the bad sins. I can understand how a person can lie, but I just cannot understand how a person could do this. David committed adultery and then kept it off with murder. Want to be careful, so. We believe sin is sin, and there are varieties of manifestation of sin. But the root problem, and the Jews wouldn't grasp this, remember the Old Testament problem? You have to have your heart circumcised. Until you deal with the inner condition, you haven't dealt with anything. That's what Jesus said. The Pharisees, these religious leaders, they cleaned up the outside, and they were like a whitewashed tomb. Inside, it's pretty ugly. You know, decadent, decaying body in there. But you cleaned up the outside. I sometimes get concerned in the evangelical world. We go to town on specific big sins. And they get narrower because the world accepts more. We don't want to be soft on sin. But sin is sin. And it has its same source in our fallen nature. As believers, we've been redeemed. But that old man has not yet been removed. That's a future thing to look for. A little mini-sermon on sin. Is Abraham really a Jew, given that it was Jacob who was named Israel and the nation came from him? Yeah, the name comes, but the covenant comes with Abraham. So the name that gives specific identity, you have Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And Jacob's name, you remember, was changed to Israel. But the covenant that establishes the uniqueness begins with Abraham. And it's the Abrahamic covenant that marks Abraham off as set apart as the unique father of the nation of his descendants. So I think that makes the distinction. Later, the name is given. that will clarify it just like later circumcision will be the sign of the covenant but you know there's a process that goes on so it begins with Abraham and we have to be careful with the Muslim world you know they try to blend things sometime and people do well we are you know we're talking about we're the family of Abraham what does it matter that you're a descendant of Abraham You have to be a descendant of Abraham through Isaac, through Jacob, through the 12 sons of Jacob to be in the line of the promises of the Abrahamic covenant for the physical descendants. So the Muslims aren't in that line. I know they try to redo some of the Old Testament, but we're faith people. You know, you get all these terminologies. We're faith people. Everybody is a faith people. Everybody has faith. The atheist has faith. I talked to a man recently over the holidays and sharing the gospel with him, and he says, I know I've shared the gospel with him before. It's another state when we were out of state. He says, you and I disagree. I believe when you die, it's blackness, it's over. It's done. I talked about faith, he has strong faith in that. When they die, that'll be it. He has faith. He's a man of faith. But it's not the faith of the scripture. It's not the faith that saves. I'm going to be careful. This terminology, we're people of faith. And we want to get people of faith together. And we're usually talking about at least religious people. And we don't have any more in common with religious people, as we use the term, than we do with atheists. secular humanist, whatever terminology the division is between those who have their faith in Christ and the rest. I mean, the whole world lies in the evil one. Where we were until, by God's grace, we placed our faith in Christ. All that to say, Abraham's the father of the nation, and the Jews recognized him as father, and it's the covenant with Abraham that everybody goes back to. It will be reiterated with Isaac and with Jacob. And Jacob's name is changed because we're coming to now a broadening. We've come from Abraham to Isaac to Jacob. Now we're going out into 12 sons. that will form the 12 tribes. So now we're beginning to see a true nation begin to develop. It'll still be a family, won't be until they go through Egypt, but you can see the foundation for that nation has been laid with the 12 sons who will be the heads of the 12 tribes and all of their descendants, physical descendants. That's different. It was not all of Abraham's physical descendants. It was not all of Isaac's physical descendants. But now, Jacob's 12 sons, you see the expanding of the line, and so that would fit with the changing of the name, as now you're moving out beyond the scope of before. Gil, a question over here on your right. Over the right, okay. Expanding on the concept of eternal existence instead of just going away. Say that again. Expanding on the concept of eternal existence for all of us. Okay. Okay. Before the foundation of the earth, God put our name in the book of life, those who are elect. At what point for a believer, for any individual, do you think their soul was created? Okay, I think the soul, this is the Traducianism argument, as it's called, that was settled in church history. That doesn't mean it's biblical, but I think they did make a biblical decision there. I think when God created Adam, with that comes the creation of the soul. So, when life is passed on, the soul is passed on, it's not God directly creating, because that brings in the difficulty, is sin present going back to Adam, or is every individual new person. Is that getting to where you are? I see the sin is passed on from Adam and that's why David could say, in sin did my mother conceive me. The sin nature, which is part in our immaterial part of our body, which we call the soul, is passed on. So I think in that sense God is not creating new life. when a baby is conceived. In that sense, we are creating new life. Obviously, it's under the plan and authority of God, but when he created Adam and Eve, it was with that intention and plan. So I think the soul is not a new creation with each one. So I would think what was settled in church history, 3-400 AD, it's been a while. Some of you have studied it more recently. But they settled that that would be the biblical view, and I think that was correct. Without that, you have either God creating a sinful soul, or you have the soul is not sinful until it would reach an age of accountability and then become guilty of its own sin. But we are sinners by birth and by choice. And Romans 5, with Adam as the head of the race, and in Adam all die, I think fits the passing on of the soul. I think the names being in the book of life is God selecting, determining, choosing before the foundation of the world those who would hear and believe the gospel. So I think that was settled there. But we were still born sinners. So we have to be careful. We are sinners. I think this gets into the whole issue of the atonement. And I think it gets dangerously close to saying believers were never really lost. Because in effect they say the effects of the death of Christ are brought about by the death of Christ. So the death of Christ saved us. Well, but we were dead in our trespasses and sins. I wasn't saved till I believed. So the death of Christ did not save me. It made provision for me to be saved. But I wasn't saved by the death of Christ. We were dead in our trespasses and sins. Paul told Titus, you remind them you were just like those filthy, deviled sinners that you may be looking down on. You were one time just like them. So the death of Christ didn't save me. It made provision for me to be saved. Now I think in God's work of election before the foundation of the world, he had made a choice that at a point in time I would be drawn by the Spirit to faith in Christ. But the death of Christ saved no one. I think that gets into the whole doctrine of limited, unlimited atonement as we talk about it. I don't think the death of Christ saved anyone. And I get concerned when I read some of this that there seems that the position they're putting themselves in is the death of Christ had to be effective. What do you mean had to be effective? Of course it would be effective. to save those that God had chosen. But it saved no one. I wasn't saved until I was saved by faith in Christ. So that gets into that whole thing of election. I believe the doctrine of election and our names were in the book of life and the foundation of the world. And God in Ephesians 1 in eternity past chose But we're still responsible. And as I've shared, I can't put that all finally in a nice package. But apart from that intervening grace, none of us would have believed. So it was God's grace to provide a savior and then select from fallen men some to be saved. So it's not fair. The only thing that has to be dealt with in fairness, is it fair for God to save anyone? Remember the angels. The angels sinned. God never provided a Savior. That settled their doom forever. The fallen angels can never be saved because there's no Savior for fallen angels. Hebrews addresses that. Christ didn't become an angel. So, fairness has to do, can God credit me with His righteousness in a way that's consistent with his righteous character. Well, my penalty has to be paid, so provides the son. So I think you say it's fair. The question is not could God be fair in sending people to hell, the question is can God be fair in saving anyone and bring them to heaven and be consistent with his character. Romans chapter three develops a little bit of that. Can't remember if we've asked this one or not, but do you see a division between soul and spirit? In other words, is man two part or three part? You know, the more I read about it, the more I don't know. I tend to make a distinction between the immaterial part of man and the material part. So in that sense, I am the two-part person, not the tri-part person. The Bible talks about body, soul, and spirit, but it's hard to make a distinction that I am able to say is consistent with Scripture. I know some think they do, but at least I haven't been comfortable with it. I don't know what the distinction between soul and spirit is. Some say, well, the spirit is the part of man that's made alive and can relate to God. But, you know, there was a person, they were dying and their soul was departing. But James says the body without the spirit is dead. Well, it seems to equate the spirit and the soul. It talks about the old man and the new man within me in salvation. So I'm hard-pressed to make a decision what the distinction is between soul and spirit, if there is a distinction. I realize the body in the Thessalonians talks about body, soul, and spirit. But what that distinction is with clarity, I can't say for sure. I don't know. The body without the spirit is dead. So I can't say, well, the spirit is limited to this, just our ability to relate to God, because the spirit is my immaterial life. When I, as a person, my immaterial part of me leaves my body, I'm dead. You know, I wouldn't go to the wall and say there's not such thing as body, soul, and spirit. The scripture mentions it, but it seems to me the spirit and the soul can be used somewhat interchangeably. So I tend to say, well, there's an immaterial part. When you die, you as a person will leave your body. Now, you call that the soul or the spirit? Yes. I'm comfortable with either, because the Bible seems to refer to it as either. Some would say, well, animals have soul. Humans have spirits. The soul is the life principle. But again, there are passages that talk about our soul in the context like I mentioned. Jesus said, you don't fear those who kill the body, but you fear those after he's killed the body is able to cast body and soul in hell. So that's sort of where I am on it. I'm probably a dichotomist, two part, who isn't close to there being three parts, but the two parts seem to me to merge. Another question, what are some of the indications that someone has reached the age of accountability? You know, I think there's probably a reason God hasn't told us. Because I told you, our kids, when they were little, they're in the What'd they call it? The crib. Sounds like an animal term, but that's where they were. You know, I didn't babysit a lot, but I wasn't good at it. When I was in, I'd go in and talk to them, explain the gospel. Now, they're laying there on their back, and I'm spinning the little thing over them, and I'm saying, you know, you don't quite understand this, but I want you to begin early to hear and walk through the gospel with them. Now, if I knew they were safe until they got to be 20, I'd say, well, we don't have to push this. We'll wait until they're, you know, along the way. We present it as early as we can. You know, you look for Scripture. What is it? Well, you go to the Old Testament. Only those 20 years in age and older were enrolled to go to war, men. That and when they were responsible and accountable. It doesn't tell us at what age rebellious children could be stoned. So I don't know. I think it could tend to be a little older than we think. Was it six years old? Is it 12 years old? Only God knows. Safest thing is I want to present the gospel as early as possible. Make it as clear as I can and encourage the kids to believe it and explain it to them and pray for them. You know, Lord, only your grace will touch their heart. Being raised in a Christian home doesn't make a Christian kid. And, you know, it's not, oh, if they had been better parents, they would have got saved. You know, it just doesn't work that way. God was the best parent to Israel you could have. And Israel was a total failure, disaster. Yet he said, I was your father. It's in the Lord's hand. So I be careful about making a guess. I don't think a three-year-old would qualify because we don't hold them accountable. You know, we recognize they're not yet in that position. But that's why we start early here at church. You know, we want the kids to be in classes where truth is presented to them and be reinforced in the home. I think in the home we want to model as best we can, but only God's grace touches a heart. Jesus brothers didn't believe in him until they evidently had a post-resurrection experience. That doesn't mean that Joseph and Mary had failed as parents. Jesus wasn't a good brother who didn't have a good testimony with his family. Things we accept, but as far as age, I don't know what to say. You know, when they're old enough to understand, I'd want to tell them, you know, you can understand the truth. You're old enough to understand you're a sinner. That's why you struggle with being obedient. That's why we have to discipline you. And the Bible does tell. But I want to be careful we don't put the kind of pressure on our kids that they have to do this to please us because that won't save them. You know, I want my kids to be saved, my grandkids to be saved, my great-grandchild to be saved. That's our desire, but I want to be careful. I do want to have a proper pressure. I want them to know how important I see this is, and I want to model the kind of life that they should see what the Lord's done in my life. But I also realize they may go off on their own in total rebellion, Lord, they're in your hands. They've heard the truth. Pray that somewhere along the line, you'll bring someone into their life. What can you do? You can't pound it into them. We can't pound it into them at church. That's why we quit baptizing until they became adults. Couldn't make their own decision. And some people were offended. You're saying, my child's not saved. We're just not saying they're not yet. So for that, in our society, it's somewhere around 18. I guess when you can go sign up for the military. I've used the example of my brother. He wanted to join the Marines and wanted my dad to sign so he could join at 17. My dad said no, because my dad had been in the military. He says, because you won't like it, then you'll blame me for signing. So my brother, on his 18th birthday, went down and signed. And dad was right. He didn't like it. But, you know, so there we want them, when they give a testimony, to be able to be responsible for their testimony. But that doesn't mean a 12-year-old can't be saved. but a 12-year-old probably not in the independent state. We don't discipline, give church discipline to 12-year-olds, but we would to a 18, 20-year-old, something like that. How do you help someone who is thinking about suicide? You know, And I'm gonna be careful here. Suicide is not the unforgivable sin, as I would understand it. I'm gonna call it self-murder. Well, David murdered, but he was a saved man. I guess you wanna focus their attention on what Christ has done for them. Often suicide comes when we do get absorbed in ourself. And if a person's not a believer, there is an emptiness to life. We may do a study of Ecclesiastes, because it's good for that. But there is an emptiness that's there, and if you begin to focus on that, there's a despair that's there. You know, you find healthy people committing suicide. You have people who are unhealthy, who are struggling, who would love to have that healthy body. You have people that have lots of money who commit suicide. And you have people that don't have much, so they're struggling just to make ends meet. You know, there's not a rationale to it. So I just would take person to scripture and say, you know, you are in a hopeless, helpless situation if they're not a believer. If they claim to be a believer, then I want to walk through them what God has provided. And you know, discouragement, depression, difficulty, is part of God's plan for his children to mold them, to shape them. So your life is not without purpose. And what, you know, I want to help them do is accept the purpose God has for them now. And that concludes even things like depression. And, you know, as we talked about, depression and things like that can be caused by a variety of things. You know, you read some medications, and this can cause depression. If you have suicidal thoughts, you know, there can be a variety of things that become influential, and you'd like a person to talk about it. Sin is irrational, and it can be irrational in the believer's life. I say that because I don't think we'd say, well, I don't think a true believer could commit suicide. What do you think, a true believer could commit murder? Well, David did. I want to be careful, but I'm off track in any kind of sin as a believer. Now I want to be careful because when I get off track as a believer, it can be frustrating. Because now I have not only that frustration of whatever's going on, but I have the weight of thinking I as a Christian shouldn't be in this condition. And so sometimes it seems like I'm worse off as a Christian, because if I wasn't a Christian, I could trust Christ and get saved, and that would set me free. But I know I've trusted Christ, and so all I can do is take them to Scripture, and maybe they need somebody to walk with them. I want to just have them talk about their problems, because that's part of the problem. The more I focus on me and my problems, the more down I get. So I want to help them focus your attention on the God who loves you, the Savior who saved you, and what he says he'll do for you. He doesn't say he'll remove the cloud of depression, but he says he'll give you the grace to walk through that, and he won't leave you alone. You know, some of those things come, and so if I'm dealing with an unbeliever, I want to bring them to the Word of God. Because the reality of it is, you do have a miserable, hopeless life that is going nowhere. And this is as good as it'll get, but I want to tell you, if your life ends without Christ, the worst is yet to come. And there's no reason for you to go there. Maybe God has brought you to this point. So you realize how much you need him. You were created for fellowship with him. So you could walk with him. So he could care for you. I want to start there probably. Are you a believer? But I believe believers can get depressed. I believe believers can and do commit all kind of sins. Now, something like suicide has a finality to it. But a believer can get irrational in his thinking and think, you know, I know I've trusted Christ. I know he loves me. I know that's settled. And if I could end his life. And there's an element of truth to that. The problem is God's way is always best. But I wouldn't tell them, you know, if you commit suicide, that probably means you're not going to heaven. I could tell them, if you commit suicide, you're going to miss what God has for you here. He's not done with you here. If he wanted you in heaven today, he could take your life. So you will miss what God has for you. And you will realize that then. I'm not saying God won't accept you. So, you know, you want to encourage them, not add to their discouragement, not beat on them. Well, if you're a Christian, you wouldn't have those kind of thoughts. I can say, I believe a Christian can have any kind of thoughts. I want to be sure he is a Christian. But if a Christian's off track, you know, where does sin take you? It takes you to despair, even as a believer. And I emphasize that as believers, it can add to our despair because we know we shouldn't be out here. We know we shouldn't be doing this. And it just makes it all the worse. Lord, I've failed you. But the solution is not. To take it into my own hands, you're just adding to the solution is Lord. Here's my life. It's yours. I'm your slave. I can't take my life because it's not my life, it's your life. You're not your own, you're bought with a price. So encourage them along that line and help them walk through it. It'd be what I would say, the Word of God, encourage them to be in the Word. If there is sin, and this is what I often ask, is there sin in your life? And sometimes they're reluctant, but there's a, well, I have been doing this. I've been involved in this. Nobody knows about it. I said, well, there are two people that know about it. You know about it and God knows about it. Now I know about it. Well, naturally, sin. The wages of sin is death, so it's a downward spiral. So even if they're believers, you want to find out if they're secretly taking drugs, if they've been involved in immorality, if they've been embezzling money at work, I mean, mistreating their wife and kids, and you know, it's making them miserable. So sin makes you miserable. And when you're miserable, you just sometimes want to quit and give up. And sometimes people make a decision that they can't undo. It's the way I would deal with it. First, find out if I think they're a believer. And tell me, you know, you claim you have all the right answers. Tell me the evidences in your life that you are a believer. I'm not saying you're not a believer just because you feel like you want to kill yourself. Let's talk about that. Try to bring them to the word. Okay. Someone asked me, is the resurrection part of the gospel? This is a series. I thought maybe I could do a study and we might do that. The resurrection is part of the gospel, the bodily resurrection of Christ. That ties to what I talked about with neo-orthodoxy. I don't think anybody who denies the literal, physical bodily resurrection of Christ can call themselves a biblical Christian, because Paul says if Christ wasn't raised from the dead bodily, our faith is worthless. So if you don't believe that Christ was raised from the dead, you don't believe biblical truth concerning Christ, that's what the gospel is. So I believe the resurrection is part of the gospel. Christ's resurrection, now we're not saved because he was raised, but his resurrection is proof and evidence that the work of redemption was completed. And without that, The gospel would not be complete. He had to be raised from the dead. Old Testament prophesied that, as Peter brought out when we were talking this morning in Acts 2. His body wouldn't be left to decay in the grave. So it's an essential. You wouldn't have the completed gospel without the resurrection. And that guarantees our resurrection. That's Paul's point in 1 Corinthians 15. Christ is the first fruit, guaranteeing a coming resurrection. So there is bodily resurrection. There is bodily resurrection for believer and unbeliever. So the body of the unbeliever will too be raised, but it will be raised for condemnation. Jesus talked about that in the Gospel of John chapter 5, when there will come a day when those who are in the grave will hear that call. And some will be raised to a resurrection of life, some to a resurrection of condemnation. The resurrected body is an indestructible body. For the believer it's called a glorified body, but the unbeliever's resurrected body is indestructible. It is suitable for suffering in hell for eternity, but the fire won't consume it. But it can suffer pain and agony and torment. We see something of that in Luke 16, the description of the rich man in Hades, tormented in this fire. The spirit body, and when the spirit leaves the body, it either goes to heaven or goes to Hades, which is a place of torment. And it can suffer torment. So when the body leaves, then later, for the final judgment, those bodies are raised from the grave, reunited with the spirit, not to be separated ever again, either in torment or in hell. There's a spiritual resurrection that goes on. That's where we have to keep the details specific. Romans 6, and this question refers to Romans 6, that we are identified with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. to new life. And spiritually a transaction occurs where I die to sin with Christ when I believe in Him. And that's a supernatural spiritual transaction that I'm identified with Christ. And that's what breaks the hold, the power and control of sin over me. The wages of sin is death, but I died. When did you die? I died when I placed my faith in Christ and the Spirit identified me spiritually with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. And I experienced at that time the baptism of the Spirit that placed me into the body of Christ. So there is a spiritual transaction and a spiritual death and resurrection. Because that's where the root issue of sin is. It's inside. It's the immaterial part of me. So that source of sin is taken care of. Now that old nature is not removed, but its authority over me is broken. And that's the picture of Romans 6. That we were slaves of sin, now we are slaves of righteousness. So it is out of character for us to go back and sin. Why would you go back to that? But it's still possible. Because the sin nature has not been removed, but it's authority has been broken. So there's that spiritual transaction. So we've got to keep these issues. There is physical bodily resurrection, Christ's physical bodily resurrection. There's a spiritual resurrection that occurs for us in our being identified with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. That occurs when we place our faith in Christ. And then there's the bodily resurrection that comes for all. When those who are in the grave, wherever they are. Amazing you think about the power of God. To call back bodies that have been burned to ashes and distributed and thrown to the world and all the... But that body is called back. He's God. And we will live again, and we will live again in these bodies. They'll be glorified bodies. And part of what we have done on other occasions, if I'd done the study on this, we'd look at the characteristics of the resurrection body. We see it's like Christ's head. He's the first fruits. So it was an actual body. He could eat. He sat down and ate fish in his resurrected body. So it's not just a spirit body. It had nail prints. It had the wound of the sword. You could touch it. You could feel it. It had bones. He said a spirit doesn't have flesh and bones. Now it's probably not sustained by blood because in this physical body the life of the flesh is in the blood. But Jesus said concerning his resurrected body a spirit does not have flesh and bones. but it had substance, but he didn't say flesh and blood. So most take that to mean the resurrected body will not be sustained by blood as this body is, but it will be flesh and bones. So even though he could pass through walls, So, I don't know if I understand this. I'll have to see it. Me too. But I know it's going to happen. He did it. So, we'll be able to eat. Evidently, that resurrected body will have perfect absorption. Something for us to look forward to. So a little bit of an overview of that. It's not a detailed study like they may be, and there were other good questions here that would perform a study. Our sanctification, they ask about, is based upon our spiritual resurrection. That's the Roman 6. Now present your bodies as instruments of righteousness to God. That's the life of sanctification. But until the spiritual problem of our nature is dealt with and we are identified with Christ in his death, burial, and resurrection, the power of sin is not broken. Understand, Romans 6 says, the sinner is a slave to sin. Everyone is a slave in the world. Everyone is a slave of sin unless they've been set free in Christ, and then they become slaves of God and of righteousness. Romans six, so the spiritual resurrection is the foundation for a life of holiness, sanctification, a life set apart for God to obey righteousness and please him. Okay, thank you, appreciate the questions. And along the way here, I don't wanna promise when, but I wanna do a couple of studies on some different things and we'll mix the questions in, see how the evenings go. And I see how the mornings go, too. I'm just as interested to see what happens as you are. Let's pray together. Thank you, Lord, for your grace, your blessings. The riches of who you are as God have been unfolded to us in your word. Lord, apply to us in the wonder of the salvation that we have in Jesus Christ. Lord, these truths are amazing and we've just barely scratched the surface of the wonder of it all. The glory of the fullness of the salvation that we have in Christ that is yet to be our future experience. Lord, we want to live every day and in preparation and anticipation of the coming of Christ and our being gathered into your presence to be presented as holy, blameless, and without spot because of Jesus Christ. Bless the week before us. Lord, may we be faithful. May we honor you. May we be slaves of righteousness in every place and in all we do. We pray in Christ's name, amen. Thank you for listening to this message from Sound Words, a ministry of Indian Hills Community Church. Make sure to download our app from iTunes or Google Play for more messages like the one you just heard. If you would like to contact us, please email soundwords at ihcc.org or give us a call at 402-483-4541.