Michael Hranek wrote: Just were do you find that THE CHURCH is a mixture of "tares and wheat"? Isn't that a Roman Catholic invention that some Calvinists have continued in? You do know the church is the redeemed born again people of the LORD and NOT a building
I honestly did not think that you could be this naive Michael. Or are you one of the "tares" working on a cover up to protect them???
Here for your edification is the Bibles take on the problem of "tares."
2Peter 2:1 "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways"
Now who do you think these pew fillers are who are called "many shall follow their pernicious ways."
And Peter is not referring to anemia here.
Matt 13.25ff deals with the specific reference to tares, the enemy who sewed them is the Devil and yes he will sew them in the church, whilst it is in the world. EG who do you think "sewed" the Liberals?
Mike wrote: #1] 1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
#2] 1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
#1] Thus Love is for the elect whom God has chosen and Jesus died for. Thus we perceive in this verse that zero human works initiate any divine response nor do they need to. Thus faith is the gift of God which we require, from Him, to respond to God's love.
#2] Thus God's love only comes to the elect and only then can the sinner respond with love. The verse teaches that God loves first - Thus it tells us that only after election we will be enabled to love God.
John UK wrote: #1 In the UK it has become a rarity for anyone to ask the question, "Can I be saved?" This is largely due to the lack of men ministering to sinners, telling them they *need* to be saved.
"largely due to the lack of men" = Doing something?
John is that not relying upon the works of men?
What is God doing just now with UK, US and the other western nations?
Are we to understand that we are on our own? No divine help?
We know from past history that a "Revival" (eg the Welsh one 1906) can make momentous differences to the response of people to evangelising. What does that tell us about the direct input of God when it happens. Alternatively what does that say about the current situation?
Mike wrote: What would be the point of speaking of election to a lost one?
But Mike it was you who brought the question up. All I did was look at it from our Sovereign Lord's point of view. As for "fatalism" that is from the dark path and abrogates freedom. Fatalism is in Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam. Thats not what I am talking about.
Whereas God's predestination is to the mercy, love and light of salvation in Christ. Divine providence liberates man to fulfil the destiny God created him for.
Mike wrote: True, John. They might be taken aback should they ask "Can I be saved?" and they are told "If you are elect, you're in. But if you aren't, bad luck, dude." That much honesty would never do.
"Can I be saved?" Fair question.
Mike suggests it is wrong to refer to election.
But Mike, election is taught in the Bible. Therefore do you imply that this part of God's Holy Word should not be taught - in case God cannot save the person being spoken too?
Does the "honesty" of God's Word prevent salvation when evangelising the lost? Isn't this just a little bit too much human works over God's purpose?
Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
Mike this being so does that mean that.... 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace
Are we allowed to be THIS honest when preaching and evangelising?
John UK wrote: Absolutely! This is also what I believe and hope for. And the glory will be far better than we can imagine......
It says that 'we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.' I don't need to understand the second part to glory in the first.
1John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."
candle lit wrote: Since man was created perfect in the Garden, wouldn't God in restoration bring man back to that place of perfection
Question do you want to be like the FIRST Adam or the SECOND Adam?
"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."
47 "The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."
"Bay City Manager Robert V. Belleman said a worker with Bay City Electric Light & Power placed a "limiter" device outside Schur's home, between Schur's electricity meter and electrical service, on Jan. 13."
Isn't capitalism wonderful?
(Neil will probably give me a hard time for saying that)
DJC49 wrote: The King James' translation of James 1:2 is unfortunate (bad). Where it mentions falling into divers TEMPTATIONS, the better and more accurate rendering would be TRIALS.
The word in James 1:2 "temptations" is the Greek "peirasmos" It is the same word at eg: Matt 26:41, the other verse used below.
Uses include; 1) an experiment, attempt, trial, proving a) trial, proving: the trial made of you by my bodily condition, since condition served as to test the love of the Galatians toward Paul (Gal. 4:14)
b) the trial of man's fidelity, integrity, virtue, constancy 1) an enticement to sin, temptation, whether arising from the desires or from the outward circumstances 2) an internal temptation to sin a) of the temptation by which the devil sought to divert Jesus the Messiah from his divine errand 3) of the condition of things, or a mental state, by which we are enticed to sin, or to a lapse from the faith and holiness 4) adversity, affliction, trouble: sent by God and serving to test or prove one's character, faith, holiness
c) temptation (i.e. trial) of God by men 1) rebellion against God, by which his power and justice are, as it were, put to the proof and challenged to show themselves
Matt 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. Luke 11:4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
On Matt 26:41 Owen says "There are three things in the words:â€” I. The evil cautioned against,â€”temptation. II. The means of its prevalency,â€”by our entering into it. III. The way of preventing it,â€”watch and pray."
Question::If temptation is a form of evil - how far is it from sin? Is it a bridge to sin? Thus connected?
Owen goes on to say; "So temptation is like a knife, that may either cut the meat or the throat of a man; it may be his food or his poison, his exercise or his destruction."
On the other hand
James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; 3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
Hopeful wrote: P.S. Not to appear flippant, I might add the Scripture that says, "One day is as thousand yrs., and a thousand yrs. as a day." That being the case, only two days have passed since that Scripture was given. If creation itself is tied to the 7 day week, then, we'd be in the 6th day, and the Sabbath day is coming - the time of blessedness and rest in the Kingdom of God. I think the pattern of 6 days of creation and the 7th day of rest holds as a metaphor for the time of man and earth and the curse and redemption and consummation. But, go ahead, rake me over the coals if you disagree.
Ive heard of that theory before. But surely the "thousand years" = 1 day, - is simply an analogical device to provide the (infinite) extent of God's perception, compared with mortal, rather than literal time?
For example Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night
2Pet 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
A true believer wrote: You are very much mistaken: A biblical ring would be more appropriate. Please familiarize yourself with the book of of 1st John among others.
More like the "Social gospel" Thats what Liberals go for to the exclusion of Scripture doctrine. This would be why Obama does not go to church on Sunday, - but goes there for political gain, as in this staged farce.
In my local town in 2004 a man was shot dead in the evening, on his doorstep. His family were in the house at the same time. The police have now announced that they have given up the investigation, because they cannot find the murderer, nor any clues as to why he was killed.
My son recently told me of a friend of his who phoned the police to report a burglary, happening at that time, at the house opposite. The police arrived 2.1/2 hours later by which time the thieves had well departed.
When I read an article such as this and consider facts like these, I can only be very very sad as to the way in which Britain is going. All authorities and institutions have become a mockery of what they once were.
This terminal disease has one simple name "LIBERALISM"
Rev. Ian Paisley said "I know there are many beliefs in this house and my belief in God is well known. But I trust that our whole nation will turn in repentance and cry to God for an intervention so that the calamity will not come on our children and the babes in the cots."
Regardless of the bleating of some of the sheep on this thread, that Paisley is not as righteous as they are. It is true what Paisley has called for in these perilous times. Not only for the generaton now but for our children and our childrens children.
Rev Paisley's words echo the Lord's.
Matt 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Mark 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.