Just a FYI wrote: The link you posted is to this article not to a sermon
Thank you so much for the FYI. I'd only listened to the beginning of the message and didn't realize what I was suggesting in total. I didn't sleep well last night as a result.
On the Lord's Day I'd heard a sermon on Social Media and it was very convicting. It suggested Christian Conference was to be preferred. I'd much prefer it but it is not available to me at this time.
I prayed this morning the Lord would show me what to do, and I was comforted to know He'd already taken care of it. Again thank you for letting me know, I can rest this day in His loving watchful care for poor infirmed sheep.
The sermon I posted made some points relative to the present discussion. I did not know exactly where the brother was coming from in everything he said, until further investigation. I cannot agree with him in all points for that reason. I will say it seemed to me, he did not make a distinction between the visible Church or Covenant Community and the invisible Church or the election of grace that are known only to God.
If we are to recognize a true Church by their doctrine according to the Scriptures of truth, a lawful ministry and the Scriptural use and understanding of the two and only two sacraments of the NT, then these things are essential that we should know and then that we consider as Christians those who also know these same truths or are open to being convinced of them from the Word, Spirit and a lawful ministry.
I was considering these things this morning and read Ephesians 2:12-22. Then there is Galatians 4 and Romans 11. Ephesians 2 speaks of the merging of the Church into one body in Christ. Yet, what appears to be for the sake of clarity, Paul speaks of his nation and the religion of the patriarchs, to distinguish that a larger number of such will be called at a future time when the Gentile Church is emerging from spiritual decline and the combination of the two will be life from the dead for the nations of the world - Gentile because not national/covenant bound Jews.
It reminded me of America. How many at this point can say they are a German or Brit etc. ? They may have been primarily influenced by that culture or religion but they have a mixed genealogy by this point. Isn't a Jew in Paul's mind a nation under covenant vows to God and the sons of Shem with the promise to Eve and Abraham -the promised seed Christ? Yet it is by faith he is more then one externally, he is a believer in Messiah who has come.. I think Romans indicates in the not too distant future we will see a greater conversion of Jews, who will be national Jews and Christ's by election.
Lisa wrote: The term jew is not clearly defined by the bible. ...
I respectfully disagree. If the word of God does not define a Jew how would we know who are those worship the one true and living God in either Testament? The Scripture states we recognize one not by externals like circumcision. God knows the heart we do not. They exercise the faith of Abraham, in the veracity of the Word of God, and not dependent upon the things of sense. Faith is by grace. Abraham saw Christ to come by faith in what was revealed in the OT and rejoiced to see his day. Christ call the professing Jews of his day children of their father the devil. Was he being unloving?
Neil wrote: I consider a State Church as one controlled by the government,
I think a State 'Church' is either controlled by the government as an oppressive tyrant over the consciences of men, i.e. China; or by flattering promises and preferment it encourages the people toward the Church that will best serve its agenda.
On the other hand a Church State would in my mind have to be a true Church and I believe as Luther did that Rome is the Great Whore of Revelation 17. She like the apostate Jews did commit whoredom (idolatry) against their Husband Jehovah/Christ and in Hosea, she was given a bill of divorce. Lisa, Define a Jew. Jehoshaphat was rebuked by Jehu: Shouldst thou love them that hate the Lord and help the ungodly? A true Jew recognizes Messias. This is not private vengeance, it is zeal for Christ.
“the clock is ticking” and called on them to approve an extension of the national borrowing limit-quote
China is a State Church upholder and now they are a voice in the House of Representatives? Sounds like they are not the only State Church upholders. "And the beast that was and is not is the eighth and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." Rev. 17:11
Neil wrote: Indeed, the Roman Church-State is like a Black Hole, attracting even those who do not identify themselves as Christian
I would think the RCC more of a State Church than a Church State and modern 'evangelicals' more like China's 3 self movement under the secular state. The Three Self there's a new name for them. Nothing new under the sun.
10/25/13 12:03 PM
