My initial point was to show that Joe can be reeducated about 'Abortion' (or 'Sodomy'). A simple medical factual tract might suffice, yes it is that simple.

A bonus Christian tract might educate him that there is a God and change those state indoctrinated opinions. Even better the Lord might sovereignly choose to work in his heart!

Methinks unevangelised pagan England needs men like Carey:

'Carey was spending every weekend, several evenings a week and the entire rain period when the factories were closed, walking some 20 miles a day through pathless jungles to preach to the two hundred villages in the Company’s district.'

Methinks Spurgeon has a word for us today:

Awake! Awake!

Sinners are dying in the street by hundreds; men are sinking into the flames of eternal wrath, but they fold their arms, they pity the poor perishing sinner, but they do nothing to show that their pity is real. They go to their places of worship; they occupy their well-cushioned easy pew; they wish the minister to feed them every Sabbath; but there is never a child taught in the Sunday-school by them; there is never a tract distributed at the poor man's house; there is never a deed done which might be the means of saving souls.

They hear a congregation choosing to meet in the midst of a large peasant estate. They picture persecuted believers- the locals defaming those religious bigots. Ask for directions they expect all in the darkest neighborhood to know exactly where the burning light shines for Christians are always known! Instead they see shiny suits and polished new chariots (cars). They hear of modern puritans and reformers...keyboard warriors whose main action is to join with Christian groups to sign petitions to present to the government. None in the neighbourhood has heard of these 'Christians'. What would your Puritans think?

John UK wrote:
the doctor's magic pills, because the queue up to the door will be over a mile long.

I guess 'Class System Info' will either be far too intelligent or too handsome to be the first in the queue.

According to my own lower class Daily Mirror (the one I shave in)...I am already too handsome!

You were mistaken. Some council folk are far from being uneducated peasants!

Why I used 'Joe Bloggs' is that it is 'Mr Average' I refer too. We agree the average man in England is far from being 'middle class'. We agree that disciples like Peter and John (fishermen) were seen as uneducated common men (Acts 4: 13). I hope we agree that the Lord chooses the lowly despised (I Cor 1: 28)

I mentioned council house/middle class only in the context that my nearest Reformed church meets in a school in the middle of a council estate, but never evangelsing the dwellings of the apparent 'uneducated' and possibly even a fisherman or two? See any problem?

The Lord does save uneducated council peasants. He saved me. Whether you like it or not the council peasant rarely meets a Reformed man and ends up in a brethren assembly or some place where the lowly are welcomed.

When the Lord came to this world it was the brainy Pharisees who appeared to run the church and the lowly were hung out to dry.

A local church should be evangelizing the neighbourhood of peasants and is usually made up of all classes.

One Reformed I appreciate that visits council estates

http://www.knightswoodchurch.org/

If the BBC state your case then please explain how every school child in England between the age of 7 and 14 has a Government grant free laptop and free internet access offer therefore such households have not took up a FREE...yes FREE laptop with FREE internet? REALLY?

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/free-laptop-grants

In my own street of 8 houses, seven families were all unemployed. Six had children. One with a newborn baby and hadn't worked since school and now 26.

All had a laptop! All live on facebook!

It is a rare council house without a TV, telephone, or washing machine and Fridge Freezer, then why do you think they will not have a computer or laptop offered FREE? Would they refuse a FREE TV and Licence? No!

It is almost certain in England that every 7 year old and upwards has a free laptop if on benefits.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/free-laptop-grants

Free Laptops for some 'Joe Bloggs'- unfortunate sinners who live on a Council Estate. We have a laptop and we KNOW HOW TO USE CAPS!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_house
"a substantial part of the UK population still lives in council housing."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_large_council_estates_in_the_UK

A list of council estates with a residential social housing population of over 10,000. One London Borough has 100,000 residing in council housing.

Methinks some Christians need to live in the real world..some might yet have to experience unemployment and a spiral downwards to 'social housing'. I wonder how appealing such would be to some 'poor' sinners who presently enjoy so much more than most?

http://www.tentmakerpublications.com/biographies.html

Get yourself a copy of 'Amazing Conversions' from the above supplier.

class system info wrote:
Problem; Council Estate Joe Bloggs doesn't have a lap top.

Having lived on a council estate most households have children-therefore a government gift of a free laptop. They might have no interest in politics, but they know about the realities of death and sin just as much as you; they certainly know how to fire up a laptop to get onto facebook and Ebay at the very least.

My point was that if such as you and I were fired up Christians then the average household might have an opportunity to hear the gospel. Some towns are mostly council estates...a good baptist from Liverpool was a great help to me personally as a babe in Christ, like me he was on benefits and lived in a council house.

If it wasn't for the JW's coming around my own council estate, then I would never have been challenged to read a Bible. I am still waiting for any one from a local church to proclaim anything.

The sad thing is that some Christians have more interest in their super size 'telly'; hobbies like 'golf'; or 'supporting' the missionary in Africa who they have never personally met, than evangelistic hearts to reach the beer swilling ciggie stinking sinner in the sink estate right on the churches doorstep.

concerned about the carnality wrote:
what utter nonsense!!rc's are more open to the gospel than they ever were. more than can be said of bigoted prods.who have to a great degree turned their backs on GOD.