BUT They don't worship them like the Roman Catholics do.
Roman Catholic graven images... "First-Class Relics: Items directly associated with the events of Christ's life (manger, cross, etc.), or the physical remains of a saint (a bone, a hair, skull, a limb, etc.). Traditionally, a martyr's relics are often more prized than the relics of other saints. Also, some saints' relics are known for their extraordinary incorruptibility and so would have high regard. Parts of the saint that were significant to that saint's life are more prized relics. For instance, King St. Stephen of Hungary's right forearm is especially important because of his status as a ruler. A famous theologian's head may be his most important relic. (The head of St. Thomas Aquinas was removed by the monks at the Cistercian abbey at Fossanova where he died). If a saint did a lot of travelling then the bones of his feet may be prized. Current Catholic teaching prohibits relics to be divided up into small, unrecognizable parts if they are to be used in liturgy" Second-Class Relics: An item that the saint wore (a shirt, a glove, etc.) Also included is an item that the saint owned or frequently used, for example, a crucifix (Wiki)
"Rock music, electric guitars and even moshpits are luring more young people to church"
"luring more young people to" - LIBERALISM.
This musical trash is not accepted in real worship or real churches. Satan's chaos and confusion which is Liberalism appeals to the flesh and sin of the reprobate in his natural estate. Another source of satanic anarchy from the authority of God.
God's elect do not go there.
"...there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you:" 2Peter 2.
June wrote: you are intending to resist the implementation of any of the laws supporting homosexual behaviour. Your primary obligation is to uphold the Law of God"
June. (et al) Since you are living in a "Democracy" YOU have the same responsibility as the Christian politician has.
Therefore your allegation puts you in the same position. Voting in the government assembly of your country means, some say yes - some no. Being a citizen of your country YOUR representatives will have come to the same legislation decision, ergo the decision is MADE FOR YOU TOO! By the same token of majority vote win. YOUR participation in the democratic process of your country puts you in the same agreement as your politicians that of majority rules. By your citizenship you accept the legislation of your nation and political representation method.
NB Daniel in his prayers uses "WE" of Israel. Dan 9:5 "We have sinned"
"5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour."
Paul Forrest wrote: We know very well that our brother Ian has prayed and preached in addition to his political duties. That's all very well, but his gospel ministry has to suffer. Consider that he was a member of parliament, a member of the European 'Parliament', the leader of a political party, the moderator of his denomination, involved in various organisations (at one time, the leader in a semi-paramilitary group), the editor of a magazine, and contributor to other magazines. Did I mention that he was also the pastor of a large congregation? His level of activity can hardly be matched. But, paradoxically, therein lies the problem. There are only so many hours in the day. The vast amount of time he spent carrying out political duties meant that there was little time left for what was supposed to be his chief role--that of pastor.
Was God's purpose or work prevented, hampered, restricted or forestalled by the additional responsibilities Paisley took on?
Was God's providence NOT in evidence, in the parts of Paisley's life which were not specifically within church walls?
Is God sovereign in all of the life of His servant - or only in ecclesiastical duty?
June wrote: A) I repeat, PLAINLY SPEAKING . . God's Word prohibits GOSPEL MINISTERS from holding public office.
B) I meant II Tim. 2:4
A) Already dealt with and rejected this below!
B) First the battle for the soldier is spiritual. Thus everywhere! Second this battle is not against flesh and blood but spiritual forces of darkness.
Again this does not preclude the witness whether in - a factory - an office - a field - a garage - a house - a barn - OR ANY CIVIL COMMUNITY WORK!!!
The job of a politician is just a job, like plumber, electrician, accountant and candle stick maker. BUT there is nothing in Scripture that prevents the Christian from being involved in community work of any kind.
Lets trust in Jesus who declared ..... "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil"
If GOD protects you then why fear a few politicians???
June, your arguement here appears to be trying to establish that there are certain areas of community into which the Christian cannot go??? By this means you are barring God from these areas.
WCF "It is lawful for Christians to accept and execute the office of a magistrate when called thereunto" Prov 8:15-16; Rom 13:1-2,4; 1Tim 2:2.
June wrote: 1) God has plainly set forth his requirements for Gospel Ministers in His Word.
2) In Acts 6:4 and II Tim. 6:4 , He relegates their peculiar work to that which ministers to the souls of men. They are to be â€śseparated unto the Gospelâ€ť
3) (Rom. 1:1)
4) Christ, the exemplar preacher, went about â€śteaching and preachingâ€ť (Matt. 4:23; Matt. 9:35); â€śHe taught daily in the templeâ€ť (Luke 19:47) and the doctrine.......... did not meddle in politics
1) Bible does not exclude the preacher from civil community works.
2) = Acts 6:4 merely says that the preacher should keep up a life of prayer and preaching. Paisley did that.
= II Tim 6:4 - There is no sixth chapter in 2Tim.?
3) Rom 1:1 - Paul again merely states that he is separated unto the Gospel. This statement does not preclude him or anyone else from other tasks in the community.
4) As for comparing Christ and His short period in the Jewish community with a modern preacher living his whole life in a democracy; - NOT relevant! Since Christ lived under Roman military rule. And was an ITINERANT preacher.
YOU said. "PLAINLY SPEAKING . . God's Word prohibits GOSPEL MINISTERS from holding public office."
June wrote: Preacher . . Politician . . a Conflict of Interest:
I see you have no answer to the points I raised. All you have done is reiterated the same old "half-truths information" relating to government policies which come from Stormont and ALL other western governments about the abomination.
As has been stated before the Westminster Government initiated and ordered the funding of homosexual interests; - and this is not the fault of Paisley nor any other one person.
We all know that politics in ALL western nations is anti-Biblical and anti-Christian, so is 96 per cent of the population of these nations. So common sense tells you that the legislation brought about by anti-Christian reprobates, who are in the majority in ALL western nations, is going to be - (Yes you've got it) - anti-Christian.
Prov 29:2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.
Prov 19:21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand. AND 21:30 There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD
June wrote: God's sovereignty (Rom. 13) does not absolve a man of his individual responsibility to keep the commandments of God or to act in accordance with His will as revealed in His Word.
June I just have to ask. At what point and how can man disobey God's sovereignty? Or which commandment is not covered by God's sovereignty?
Western governments impugn and contravene Holy Scripture all the time! And have for centuries. After all they are only human and invariably reprobate unbelievers.
But This is also the case in all society.
Therefore are you suggesting Christians should remove themselves from nations/societies which transgress Holy Law?
Jesus prayed "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil."
Now thats practical sovereignty.
WCF 23.2 "It is lawful for Christians to accept and execute the office of a magistrate when called thereunto; in the managing whereof, as they ought especially to maintain piety, justice, and peace, according to the wholesome laws of each commonwealth, so, for that end, they may lawfully, now under the New Testament, wage war upon just and necessary occasion."
Prov 8:15-16 Rom 13:1-2,4 2 Sam 23:3 Psa 2:10-12 1Tim 2:2......etc
June wrote: 1. Let's be clear . . These are not my words, but the words of
2. Therein lies the problem friend. In the words of Pastor Ralph Ovadal, "But ministers of the gospel should never simultaneously be ministers of the civil state.
1. Yes June. We can read.
2. You (and the Pastor) are still NOT dealing with nor receiving Romans Ch. 13.
Either God is in sovereign charge - or there are bits of quote "authority" unquote, which are independant of God. Which is it to be?
Also are you implying that the god of mammon is the provider referred to in Romans 13? Does *YOUR* Bible read; " For there is no power but of **Mammon**: the powers that be are ordained of **Mammon.**" ??
June wrote: For years, the Rev Ian Paisley's voice spoke up for Biblical Protestantism, at home and abroad. He claimed to be the voice of evangelical Protestantism as he thundered against apostasy, ecumenism, republicanism and Romanism.
Only "claimed"??? Oh well it doesn't matter what he did afterwords does it?
Democracy is the method of government in Ulster whether you like it or not. This means all people are elligible to stand for office in parliament regardless of the religious preferences of some.
Now if the church in Ulster could come together in support of the same views, then we could attack the politicians. But of course they do not.
We can see this exemplified by the "perfect" Christians who keep attacking Ian Paisley since he left office. Hypocrites!!!
Paisley, like all the politicians in office at Stormont did what their master in Westminster dictated, as they were obliged to do.
Thats democracy for you. If you had any other form of government - then you would still find something to complain about!!!
Stop griping and get on with living in a world where YOU??? are not supposed to belong to.
Discerning Believer quote "The reason you won't answer is that you can't because you don't know the answer."
Ah so it is the formula your after! And of course if it does not equate to your own then mine will be wrong.
You quoted 1Peter 3:15 Then tellingly added "Have you been born again?" - Already you are my judge and jury.
The next verse states 16 "Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ."
You speak evil of me Discerning, and falsely accuse me.
Read 2Cor 5:1-8 on assurance.
For we walk by faith not by sight.
It was the Puritan Thomas Brooks in his book "Heaven on Earth" who said "The sixth proposition is this, That the certainty and infallibility of a Christians assurance cannot be made know to any but his own heart."
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised) 24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
You asked "How sure are you that you are one of the elect?"
If I was to share that certainty and its proof with you, and you were not of the Elect, - would you comprehend or argue with me?
How "sure" were the church people addressed in Matt 7:21-23? and in Rev 2 and 3?
See 1 Cor 9:24 to 27.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.