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I have witnessed that one can see how the scriptures came to be in English if one we're to read up on one William Tyndale. Yes there were many other moving parts and I believe you will see them while reading a biography of Tyndale. David Daniell wrote an excellent biography of him which I would recommend to anyone.
Kev wrote: Excellent comment DD. It is amazing the picture of Godâ€™s love some draw. They see God loving countless people who He will not call with His Spirit and slip off into hell. You ask the arminians what Godâ€™s love means for mankind and he will tell you something that equates to God helps those who help themselves. As you said the love of God is effectual and your understanding of the God of the Bible is precise and sound. I believe that God hides His word from many especially when they will not submitt to the word of God. It is refreshing to hear your comment while these threads have wearied me.
Don't get weary bro... I have yet to find that term arminian anywhere in scripture or Calvinism for that matter so why bother debating what's not there? Blessings to you bro!
Christopher000 wrote: Thank you, US, Lurker, and Shane (ordered by comments)..I really appreciate the responses! I have to admit that I was getting just a little down wondering why I was so often looked right over in some discussions. I also understand though that you're all on a mission on some topics, and trying to get each side to understand and grasp. I would do well to just listen and not interject at times because no matter how many times I read a thread, I don't quite get what the core issue is, which is why I wondered if there's a disconnect at times. Thank you all for your friendship.
Chris, I appreciate you sharing some of your past in the last 3 days or so. Reading through some of your post inspired me. I see the compassion you have for others which is a wonderful trait you have. It's my experience that an open heart is required on both ends of a conversation so that learning take place on both ends....iron sharpening iron if you will. But when traditions of men are imbedded with an unwillingness to put them to the test...nothing new can be discovered. Blessings to you bro
It is The law of Faith in Isaiah 2 as spoken of in Deut. 6:5 as well as Romans 3:27. It is also on of the two ministries being compared by Paul in 2 Corinthians 3. One is death the other is life. Jer 33 written on hearts His Law will be.....not written on stone. Be blessed!
I am thankful for this wonderful thread which has so many great contributions already. As I read through this thread the picture I kept seeing was one of Potter and clay as to the topic at hand. John 9 has a good illustration of this topic in my opinion. I think verse 14...Jesus made the clay....and I washed.
Kev wrote: Hey James nice to hear from you as well! I like that verse. Hope all is going well.
It is going well Kev. I was reading through the posts and saw you made a reference to his verse.
2 Cor. 3:3 ... written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 2 Corinthians 3:6-7 (KJV) 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones...
From the above I believe we can see what is written in the fleshy tables of the heart and what is purged?
Hebrews 9:14 (KJV) 14 How much more shall ***the blood of Christ***, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Romans 5:1 (KJV) 1 Therefore being ***justified by faith***, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Romans 5:9 (KJV) 9 Much more then, being now *** justified by his blood***, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
I agree with your post MS...I have as well. Blessings to all!
Greetings Bros. I like seeing the many wonderful verses describing His love toward us which gives us that assurance. Perhaps here is one more that could be added to that list. I believe that is a great question Chris and hope you are well. You too Kev! Good to see you posting.
1 John 5:13 (KJV) 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; ***that ye may know*** that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Watcher wrote: One last thing. Ask any pilot if they are constantly adjusting the altitude of the plane to account for the curvature of the earth and they answer no. Hmmm...I wonder why?
The point of reference that determines altitude constantly changes as they fly. Keep the same point of beginning aka a constant or a known....then the variable can be found objectively. Here is an example.... Flying from Jacksonville to San Fran. The point of reference that determines altitude changes each second the plane moves. Once the plane leaves Jacksonville we change the definition from the original point of reference from altitude to distance. The difference between altitude and distance is perspective. In my mind I thought of the flashlight coming over the table as a sun rise....light hits all the table at once yet Australia is dark as I type this. I do the same on a basketball something different happens than on the table example. Also. Where is a pic of the edge?
There is a clear compare and contrast presentation in 2 Corinthians chapter 3. Two ministrations are compared. One is Life and the other is death.
Again this same comparison is made where Paul clearly says in Romans 7:23...But I see ***another*** law..... One is life and the other is death.
Again compared here in Colossians 2
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was ***against us***, which was ***contrary*** to us, and took it ***out of the way***, nailing it to his cross;
Death was taken out of the way.
Col 2:22 Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are ***to perish*** with the using; after the commandments and doctrines of men...
perish = death
Isaiah 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for ***out of Zion*** shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
The law of faith was the law that came forth from Zion.
Then there is the law of Moses which came from Sinai.
Galatians 4:24-25 identifies them as covenants.... Gal 4:26 Jerusalem which is above is free. Free from what? Death. Paul goes on in Gal. 5 and speaks of liberty...liberty from what? D
I must admit I am struggling to follow your opinions and how you arrive at them. I mentioned the law of faith and 1 John 3:21-23 and Lurker referenced what a stony heart is as well as God's covenant with Israel.
Perhaps this will help...
2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Liberty from what? The the ministration of death says 2 Cor 3:7.
Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto LIBERTY...by Love serve one another.
A study of 2 Cor. 3 references what is described as the ministration of death.
John UK wrote: And none of them kept all those ten commandments, because of being born with a sinful nature and original sin; guilty from the womb, having sinned in Adam. Lurker, you're going to have to read between the lines if ever you want to grasp God's eternal plan for his elect. Until you see the effects of the Fall, you'll always be a dispensationalist; that is, you see God trying out different ways of dealing with men, hoping each time for a better result, never getting it. There's only ever been one way, and it involves blood.
John. Seems to me that you assigning an incorrect label of dispensationalist to Lurker is your way out when hard questions come. Why not just ask questions to probe further on the things that are not adding up to you? Seems to me your post is nothing but you throwing dust in the air to escape dealing with it.
John UK wrote: But having been set free, now what? This is my point..
Not to answer for Kev but I would think the answer to your question would simply be obedience to the law of faith referenced in Romans 3:27. And obedience seems to be defined by these most wonderful words.
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
The purpose of Erasmus and his work was to correct the corrupt Latin Vulgate. In 1516, he published a Greek-Latin Parallel New Testament. The Latin portion was not the corrupt Vulgate, but his own fresh rendering of the text from the more accurate and reliable Greek which had come from the manuscripts that escaped from Constantinople in 1453 of which he had six to work from. All were dated from the 12th Century or later and was the work of scribes in Constantinople from copies of what had been housed there from the time of Eusebius of Caesarea in the 4th century. Eusebius was the benefactor of receiving from Origen his private library which Origin had given to the Christian community in Constantinople. Origin was the greatest textual critic of the early Church, directing the production of the massive Hexapla ("Sixfold"), an Old Testament in six columns: Hebrew, Hebrew in Greek characters, the Septuagint, and the Greek versions of Theodotion, Aquila of Sinope, and Symmachus. This was an immense and complex word-for-word comparison of the Greek Septuagint with the original Hebrew Scriptures and with those other Greek translations. Herein lies the DNA of what we today refer to as the TR.
What made the revision of the NT in 1534 an improvement over the 1526 NT was the inclusion of translating from the Hebrew. While Tyndale's 1526 NT was a translation from the Greek only, Where the Greek New Testament writers quote from the Old Testament, Tyndale in his 1534 version of the NT, would translate from the original Hebrew into the English rather than from the Greek. Tyndale translated in 1530 the Pentateuch. He also translated from Joshua to 2 Chronicles as well as Jonah. What he found to be true about the relationship of English and Hebrew in performing this work is spoken in Tyndale's words here:
"The Greek tongue agreeth more with the English than with the Latin. And the properties of the Hebrew tongue agreeth a thousand times more with the English than with the Latin. The manner of speaking is both one; so that in a thousand places thou needest not but to translate it into the English, word for word; when thou must seek a compass in the Latin, and yet shall have much work to translate it well-favoredly, so that it have the same grace and sweetness, sense and pure understanding with it in the Latin."
From the first edition of 1560 Geneva Bible and its last edition in 1644, 160 editions, totaling around a half million Geneva Bibles, were produced. And for the first time common people could not only understand the words in the Bible, they could actually own one. Its widespread use first solidified the English language among the common people, not the 1611 King James Bible as many assume. Actually, the King James Bible required decades to surpass the popularity of the Geneva and supplant it from the hearts of the English speaking world and only achieved this by making it illegal in 1616 to print any other copy other than the 1611 KJV.
Tyndale used Erasmusâ€™s Greek text (third edition) to produce the first printed English New Testament in 1526.
He later revised his New Testament and it was printed in Antwerp, Belgium, in 1534. Despite living as a hunted criminal, Tyndaleâ€™s work was exceptional and so accurate that the later widespread Geneva and King James Bibles would utilize more than 80 percent of his exact wording. In fact, much of the vast influence attributed to the Geneva and King James Bibles should be attributed to one man whom God used for His purpose â€” William Tyndale
It succeeded because other versions were banned. The Geneva Bible continued to sell and in huge numbers. Indeed, the Geneva proved so popular that in 1616 the King was forced to ban the printing of the Geneva Bible by any English press. Although people continued to import copies, eventually the ban worked and the AV became the default English translation.
Also...It was a revision not a new translation. James ordered that it be based on the text of the Bishopsâ€™ Bible of 1568. James instructed that the new version was to be â€˜as little altered as the truth of the original [i.e. the Bishopâ€™s Bible] will permit.
Thankfully the translation of William Tyndale NT and what he was able to translate in the OT before being murdered is what you mostly read in the bibles that came after his death.
Tyndale, as did Erasmus, benefited from the influx of Greek manuscripts that had come from Constantinople which had been residing in the Greek speaking culture for a thousand years.
Here is a link to a good read on the subject for those interested.