Mike wrote:
(1) Nothing in the verses about foreordaining to everlasting death.
(2) Remember the "thing formed" has to exist before it can say anything

Mike wrote:
Looks like it's WCF foreordaining to everlasting death for glory's sake, not me. As you know, methinks it is sin what leads to that, and there ain't no sin in a man before he exists. Not even Adam's.

Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Isaiah 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

1Pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father"

MS wrote:
Hurnes...My salvation rests on the finished work of Jesus Christ.
Grace alone..faith alone...through Christ alone.
Thanks for your pretended concern.

Surely you have more basis for your religious convictions and beliefs than that. After all the Bible has a little bit more to say than that!!

Mike wrote:
Tripe

Now the WCF is based upon the Bible, do you then imply the Bible is tripe?
The Reformed church, Calvinists, Puritans, and many other protestant groups for example the 16/17th century Covenanters fought for and died for the WCF doctrines.

In your theological expertise which you will confirm is guided by the Holy Spirit, do you condemn all these people - These "Tripe" followers, as you describe them, are all now in hell because of what you know compared to their ignorance?

The Calvinist connects the WCF with the Bible by his theological perception through his doctrine, which he also believes comes from the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Therefore how do you think we should judge those who cannot identify the Bible doctrine in the WCF?

MS wrote:
Nope don't find tulip in the scriptures.

Therefore can I advise you MS that salvation by works is neither Biblical nor does it actually work.

Calvinism and TULIP are found in the Bible by the discerning Christians. Strong historic Christians such as the Reformed Church, Puritans and Covenanters all followed this teaching and great names such as Whitefield and Spurgeon and Edwards and many others taught its Biblical doctrines.

Mike wrote:
Tripe is a dish best served with onions.

John UK wrote:
Hurnes, self-righteous Hurnes. Note,
Romans 3:19-26 KJV.....
By nature you are guilty before God, a child of wrath, even as others. You do not fool me with your ungodly talk. Take heed, lest your curses fall on your own head.

God's plan and purpose is to send most of the world to hell anyway therefore it is within HIS decisions already.

I, like Paul, and other Christians have a desire to be with Christ "which is far better."

WCF3/3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels [a are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others fore-ordained to everlasting death.[b
a. Mat 25:41; 1 Tim 5:21. • b. Prov 16:4; Rom 9:22-23; Eph 1:5-6.

mike wrote:
Let's see if I got this straight. Leave man out, man, cause you are totally excluded. Faith means complete trust in God, man. Oh wait, man can't trust cause he is totally excluded. Nevermind.

And this verse teaches you that human ability in regards to salvation does not even exist.
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Missing the point wrote:
It is some super secret call to your inner being that you are not cognizant of, you just know whereas once you were lost but now you are saved.

Thus a human mouth saves from the pulpit - The human ear saves in the pew!!!!
The Liberals and JW's do a lot of talking and listening - Are they saved too in your version?

Arminian to the core eh???

So you don't need God and Spiritual calling????

You don't need the Crucified Christ and the atonement????

Have you ever heard of the spiritual realm and the Holy Spirit in your religion????

I see now why you are supporting John UK he too is Arminian hearted.

You guys just carry on and save yourselves and leave the divine work to be done on the elect of God - By God!

Jacob Arminius you have a great deal to be sorry for.

Faith in God means complete trust in God for salvation to the total exclusion of man and any merits or abilities he thinks he might have. God saves. Man couldn't save a microbe never mind himself.

Missing the point wrote:
Really this is getting old, enough of this foolishness. Unless God spoke to you audibly there was the effort of man involved in your salvation.

Missing the point wrote:
(1) if you are indeed saved the first thing you should do is thank God that whoever shared the gospel with you

(2) Acts 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

This is what we keep finding on the site that the advocates of human works based religion always try to exclude God and promote the sinner.

Try and remember that God is totally sovereign and man is Totally Depraved ie under the dominion of sin.
"Totally Sovereign" in GOD means that HE does not require or use any human help in saving the elect.
"Totally Depraved" highlights just how dead blind and deaf the sinner is to the things of God. His will is certainly NOT free but in bondage to his sinful nature.

John UK wrote:
(1) now there's a thing, a covenant wifey receiving the wrath of God for a simple little thing like watching God's judgment.

(2)So, will God answer your prayer? Will he send fire and brimstone down on this little group you hate with

(3)venomous hatred,

(4) there might be some of God's elect among them?

(2) Yes God answers prayers. Yes God will punish the wicked.

(3) "Righteous" hatred. It was God's wrath first see Genesis 19. Or Romans 1:18ff. AND it is recorded for all to see at Lev 18:22.

(4) ALL God's elect will be saved by God alone, as taught in Eph 1:4,5, and Romans 8:28-30.

Whether you agree with GOD or not John HE will and does punish the wicked and HE knows who the elect are compared to the wicked and reprobate.
One of GOD's attributes is righteous justice.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

John UK wrote:
I never mentioned God's justice

John the verses you refer to in Luke 9 are about Samaritans who wouldn't accept Christ's decision. Fire and brimstone would be an over reaction to that incident.

BUT We are discussing Sodom and Gomorrah alive and evil in the western nations today. GOD's judgement of them was fire and brimstone and destruction. Apparently you disagree with God on this.

Are you one of these Liberals who think God is just a nice old guy who brings everybody to heaven because HE is nice?

If you get round to reading the Bible look out for the bits on righteous justice of GOD.

John UK wrote:
Hurnes, you need to begin reading the new testament as well as the old.
Luke 9:54-56 KJV
(55) But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

God created hell for the purposes of HIS perfect justice and righteousness. And over the centuries of history many and most of mankind have been sent to the fires of hell.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Psalm 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God

Bring on the fire and brimstone Lord and demonstrate your justice and righteousness upon Satan's minions.

Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.