Jim Lincoln wrote: It's the church that are the carriers of the Word, one reason that is no such thing as a state church,
So, no, John M., is a five-point Calvinist. (He really should be for Amyraldism
Jim: Trouble is that in your quote of MacArthur below he is slipping into the Arminian-Roman Style of the church having power of its own to quote "give increase" which contradicts the Bible.
But your affliction of being only up to four pointer illustrates the missing petal of "completeness" to Biblical TULIP. This is another sign of Arminian self salvation conviction. Removing God's work of "Limited Atonement" is opening the door for the Arminian believe of potential Universalism. Which as you know is heresy.
Christ's work on the cross in the hands of God's Sovereign power is complete and entire, not just for the future eternal life but also in God's predestination (to foreordain by divine decree or purpose) - of His Elect alone.
WCF 3/1 "God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass" Rom 9:15, 18; 11:33; Eph 1:11; Heb 6:17
Jim Lincoln wrote: John MacArthur said or, wrote: LESSONS FROM HISTORY This is a lesson evangelicals ought to know from church history. Whenever the church has focused on evangelism and preaching the gospel, her influence has increased. When she has sought power by political, cultural, or military activism, she has damaged or spoiled her testimony.
This MacArthur fellow of yours Jim appears to have a streak of Roman Arminianism in him.
It is NOT the "church" who gives increase - It is GOD alone who does that.
1 Corinthians 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
As for "political" "cultural" "military" - All things come from God, Man is just a servant and a sinner at that. Try and remember who is in charge MacArthur.
"â€˘God is sovereign over the entire universe: Ps 103:19; Rom 8:28; Eph 1:11 â€˘God is sovereign over all of nature: Ps 135:6-7; Mt 5:45; 6:25-30 â€˘God is sovereign over angels & Satan: Ps 103:20-21; Job 1:12 â€˘God is sovereign over nations: Ps 47:7-9; Dan 2:20-21; 4:34-35 â€˘God is sovereign over human beings: 1 Sam 2:6-7; Gal 1:15-16" (monergism.com)
From historic Reformed Christian Biblical Doctrine...
WCF 13/1. They who are effectually called and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified, really and personally, through the virtue of Christâ€™s death and resurrection,a by his Word and Spirit dwelling in them;b the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed,c and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified,d and they more and more quickened and strengthened, in all saving graces,e to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.f
a. Acts 20:32; Rom 6:5-6; 1 Cor 6:11; Phil 3:10. â€˘ b. John 17:17; Eph 5:26; 2 Thes 2:13. â€˘ c. Rom 6:6, 14. â€˘ d. Rom 8:13; Gal 5:24. â€˘ e. Eph 3:16-19; Col 1:11. â€˘ f. 2 Cor 7:1; Heb 12:14.
2. This sanctification is throughout in the whole man,a yet imperfect in this life; there abideth still some remnants of corruption in every part,b whence ariseth a continual and irreconcilable war, the flesh lusting against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh.c
a. 1 Thes 5:23. â€˘ b. Rom 7:18, 23; Phil 3:12; 1 John 1:10. â€˘ c. Gal 5:17; 1 Pet 2:11.
Doris wrote: Baloney!! You are talking utter trash.
Well since GOD, through Paul agrees with me, I guess I will just have to assume you are not a Biblical Christian. Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken ***YOUR MORTAL BODIES*** by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
"An unsanctified man cannot work the work of Godâ€”  He has no SKILL in it. He is altogether as unskillful in the work, as in the word of righteousness. There are great mysteries in the practice, as well as in the principles of godliness. Now the unregenerate do not know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven. You may as well expect him to readâ€”who never learned the alphabet; or look for goodly music on the luteâ€”from one that never set his hand to an instrument; as that a natural man should do the Lord any pleasing service. He must first be taught of God (John 6:45), taught to pray (Luke 11:1), taught to profit (Isa 48:17), taught to go (Hos 11:3), or else he will be utterly at a loss." (J.Alleine)
Doris wrote: But the body is not born again, and so your original statement was plain wrong!!
Rubbish! The suggestion that the body and the spirit do not both serve God's purpose in life is incomplete. The heart and mind are 'body' and when regenerated serve the Lord, whereas prior to saving cannot serve. In that respect both are regenerated to new life and purpose IN Christ. Re Heart and mind. In transition from 'dead in sin' to 'life IN Christ' a change is effected in the body which is why/how sanctification becomes a process in the saved sinner - and is obvious by its very absence in the reprobate. There is a requirement for the body of the saved to be affected by regeneration to counter the inherent and continued power and dominion of sin. This is called the struggle and is found within the Christian and their new life in Christ. Sanctification:- a) God changing me. b) What God does in me. c) Christ at work in me by the Holy Spirit changing my life, whereby the body is the 'Temple' of the Spirit. Regeneration changes all of me, by the immense power of grace and the Holy Spirit, not just the spirit of me. And whilst on earth I do not separate the body and spirit which God created with inherent power by and for divine purpose.
In relation to the original post below "Quicken" (made alive in Greek) the verse is... Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)" And others eg ... John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will." John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."
The UNsaved are spiritually DEAD. Therefore the quickening process is related to spiritual life - Life IN Christ.
The body then is the "home" (NB Temple of 'THE' Spirit) of our new empowered spirit 'regenerated' ie born again.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you" 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Mike wrote: 1) Me neither, but when you combine preselection with the idea that faith is given to believe which cannot be resisted, then yes, you are made to believe.
1) You Arminians always reduce sin to nothing of consequence. AND. Please Note! The Holy Spirit must QUICKEN that is make alive the sinner before the unregenerated body is born again. THEN 'faith" the gift of God provides the sinner with the alternative to a sin dominated heart and mind to receive grace, truth and spiritual life unto salvation.
But I guess Mike you want to do it under human control - OR "Give God permission to save."???
God is sovereign, omnipotent omniscient and creator in my Bible. Sorry to see your god does not have the same divine attributes.
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Fred P wrote: So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me. When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Fred That verse does not mean that men save men.
The verse is instruction to Ezekiel as "watchman" to preach and warn the people of Israel. But without God the mortal can shout all he wants and the listener can hear all he wants - without receiving salvation.
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Fred P wrote: Each one of you doomed americans is to blame â€“ you have every opportunity to come forth and warn your fellow man of their impending doom â€“ but you scoff and mock at any such notion! You hate your fellow man and you will curse your fellow countrymen for eternity in hell!
This all sounds like salvation by works Fred, are you Roman Catholic?
Election by God will take care of eternity for His True Believers.
Remember; 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Responsibility for eternity does not lie in the hands of sinners whether dead in their sins or otherwise.
Fred P wrote: And what perversions the country believes in!
Don't forget GOD commands in HIS WORD... About your government...
1 Let every soul BE SUBJECT unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore ye must NEEDS BE SUBJECT, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.