SteveR wrote: I have enjoyed this discussion you have shared with my dear brother in Christ John Uk. May I ask, what background of teaching do you draw upon for your responses? Creeds, catechisms, statement of beliefs that you feel best express your faith. Thank you
Whole Counsel of God. KJV. Reformed and Protestant. Biblical Calvinist. Presbyterian. WCF, L/C. Canons of Dort. Three Forms of Unity. Reformed Creeds.
John UK wrote: Acts 8:35-38 KJV 35 Then Philip..... Would you censure Philip for baptising this new convert? Or Peter for baptising
John You picked two miracle workers for your theory. I'm sure they were very able to read the grace working in the early converts. They clearly required special abilities in God's eyes since that is what HE provided them with.
Philip a miracle worker... Acts 8:6 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done
And of Peter it says... Acts 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people.
Best stick to normal mortals for this discussion John.
John UK wrote: 2. weigh up very carefully the evidence of grace 2a. Now you can either say that grace does NOT evidence itself 2b. you take away from God the glory due unto him for his miracle of grace, 3. some tares will slip through. 4. the Presbyterian way of baptising all children 5. parents really ARE believers?
2. Ah now there is the problem isn't it John. Do you use a human ability to weigh up? Or do you read the heart as God does? The flaw in the process is being a mere human which results in your point 3. below. 2a. The positive nature of grace in Christian life emerges over time. For example when we become familiar with the individual witness of another person. This as I say takes time. 2b. I don't think any sinner can quote "take away" the glory from God. HE certainly does not require glory to come from sinners in the first place. 3. Tares being baptised is the point I would make to you. Your confession based baptism ceremony is no less dependent upon election to "catch" the elect than paedoBaptism is. We both rely upon God alone for full effect. 4. PaedoBaptism is according to Scripture, as far as age is concerned it is 'specified' in Gen 17. 5. Usually over 'time' ie experience of their personal witness among us.
John UK wrote: Baptism is related to "dying with Christ". And it is related to "rising with Christ". And it is related to "the new birth". And it is related to "repentance and faith". If you baptise anyone who has experienced none of these things as yet, you give them a false hope, because as yet, the Lord has not called them
Has the Baptist church ever baptised a non elect person?
John UK wrote: At least we PB's believe in election, and try very hard never to baptise the unregenerate and give them a false hope.
John How do you give babies false hope??? John How do you give unregenerate false hope???
"For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."
8/15/12 5:04 PM
