@Adriel, I donâ€™t know where you live, but I live in California, but I hope youâ€™re praying for the Christians in California, and for the souls of people in California.
And as far as Romans 1:26, that was happening when Paul wrote the book and before he wrote the book. I assume you live in a land where adultery, fornication, pornography, are not only legal, but also rampant.
And might I add that if the Holy Spirit was not restraining evil, every nation would be worse than California.
Jim, youâ€™ve made politics your god, in fact I think it is safe to say that your politics determines your Theological convictions, thatâ€™s extremely dangerous, you need to repent of your idolatry and sins. May God grant you faith and repentance.
Whoops. Well, I think that itâ€™s important to define what contemporary is and work from there. If we define contemporary as â€śnewâ€ť then there is a great amount of new Christian songs that are the real deal.
Of course, there are Christians out there that are so closed minded (and no, Iâ€™m not saying anyone here is closed minded) that they canâ€™t even consider that praising the Lord with a Guitar is holy (I happen to enjoy the guitar, ukulele, and banjo) or to write a new song is good.
â€śO Lord, what church shall I join?â€ť or "Must I join the Methodist Church?" In answer, he was told that "all religious denominations were believing in incorrect doctrines, and that none of them was acknowledged of God as his church and kingdom." All churches and their professors were "corrupt" and "all their creeds were an abomination in his sight."
Plus the fact the Mormons believe that marriage is fundamental to the fullness of the gospel, that is to say that the law of eternal progression hinges on marriage.
How inconsiderate that a group of people would passionately plead for mothers to not have their children butchered alive. Canâ€™t these zealously concerned individuals get a life and stop being a bother to society?
And the thought that they would show such love as to pray for the mother and her child shows a complete lack of tolerance.
@John, I thought you were a KJVonlyist, especially since the argumentation you utilized was much like the KJVonly camp, and your answers were like KJVonlyists, so it's easy how people could misidentify your position. Furthermore, the article you directed me to says that the KJV is the Bible that God gave to America. Another trademark of KJVonlyism. But I should've asked what your position really is.
And there's more than those three that the article mentioned, but since you're not a classic KJVonlyist it kinda is a point not worth pursuing (in my opinion), I recommend the KJVonly controversy by James White, unfortunately I can't spend anymore time on this, whether or not you'll see it as a retreat I don't know, but I've got a lot of catching up to do, I'm teaching a class this Sunday, I have to catch up on my personal studies, and I am putting together a series for my church, so I have a lot to do and I can't spend anymore time on this.
Thanks for spending time on this issue, I hope you have a good weekend, and may God's blessing be on your life.
BTW, I think Benjamin thought you represent the views of Dr. Sam Gipp
â€śNow Connor, it is easy for all to see that your gracious introduction and desire for a peaceable debate was nothing of the sort;â€ť
Sir, Iâ€™m sorry that you canâ€™t see that is my heartâ€™s desire. Iâ€™m afraid that youâ€™re indirectly saying that you know my heart.,
â€śyou actually want a fight. If not, why are you fighting, with all your might?â€ť
Sir, I donâ€™t want a fight, Iâ€™m not sure how you can say that. And sir, Iâ€™m not â€śfighting with all my might, I donâ€™t know why you think Iâ€™m fighting. This is what I meant that it never goes well.
â€śConnor, you do realise that no-one can prove anything about the Bible, don't you? Without the autographs, you have various options.â€ť
Sir, 2,000+ years ago, when Jesus was teaching the OT, are you seriously suggesting that He could not prove the OT? And not only Jesus, but the apostles as well?
So by fulfilling the OT He could not prove the OT? Because they didnâ€™t have the originals. Sir, your viewpoint means we could never know what any person actually said until modern times where we have original autographs, youâ€™re suggesting that we canâ€™t do any meaningful historical research on what people like Josephus actually said.
You are taking a Bart Ehrman type of approach to the scriptures. Furthermore you have failed to respond to my rebuttals.
@John Uk, I have to clarify something because I think you misunderstood me. Those questions were part and parasol to my previous question in respect to the differences in the Oxford and Cambridge. In other words, my last post was directly related to a previous post, thus it was not â€śoddâ€ť as you say.
Also, you talk about a â€śbase modelâ€ť this is not logical nor biblical because in that framework we cannot examine the KJV in light of the Greek. Thus the Greek is almost, if not, irrelevant.
You seem to think that Iâ€™m arguing the same case (in essence but differing in content) but Iâ€™m not. And sir, if I may point out, you are arguing like a Mormon missionary. They pray and ask if the Book of Mormon is the word of God, and they believe that it is due to their prayer. So thatâ€™s not a consistent argument, and your argument is not valid because someone can ask God if the NASB is the word of God, and they believe that it is, that makes the NASB the word of God.
Your whole post is based on misunderstanding, inconsistent reasoning, a faulty and unsupported framework, unsubstantiated assertions, and a sort of subjective epistemology. Iâ€™m sorry that you fail to recognize (or donâ€™t see) the flaws of your argumentation.
@John Uk, the KJV is based on Greek manuscripts. And my question is a question on which KJV translated it correctly, if there are differences, which is right? And which KJV do we say "is the word of God" and by what standard & authority do we decide? That's the question.
@Dr. Tim, that's a very pragmatic view, and we've discussed this before doc, you're setting up the KJV as the standard, that's not how it works.
Again guys, I don't mind disagreeing with you guys, you're my brothers in Christ, I've prayed for you both before, that God would continue to use you guys to advance his kingdom.
I've seen where this topic leads, it leads to no where. I wish that this topic could one day be discussed calmly and respectfully, but it never seems to be the case. I'm done with this thread.
I was a bit hesitant to even get in the KJV discussion, because every time it is addressed it seems to go nowhere, I tried to raise issues in a respectful way, it was a simple question,
but then it hopped from endorsing various versions for starting a fire; & Benjamin, I must say that you are not showing respect towards Dr. Tim, even though you disagree with him & for what he says, that doesnâ€™t give you the right to mock or ridicule Dr. Tim. We all need to work on being respectful.
Dr. Tim, you & I have discussed the KJV topic many times, and we have our disagreements, and I suppose thatâ€™s fine, and I respect you for your evangelistic zeal and for your concern of the authority of scripture and the purity of the scriptures.
But Doc...I am young in the faith, but I caution you on what you call some of the versions, because if indeed the NASB, ESV, NKJV, etc are the words of God, you will give an account to God on why you called His word inferior, a peashooter, and recommending that they be used for doorstops and for starting a fire.
Steven Anderson burned NIVs, pouring lighter fluid on them and then throwing a match on them... I truly hope you donâ€™t endorse that, that would very much grieve me.
Furthermore, he slanders and misrepresents pastors and ministers such as Pastor John MacArthur, Paul Washer, Jeff Durbin, James White, the late R.C. Sproul, calling them false prophets.
He butchers logic and reason in the below link, and he denies that God sends hurricanes, famines, and plagues because he doesnâ€™t believe that God is sovereign, he seemingly doesnâ€™t see that God uses anthropomorphic language to communicate a truth,
and it seems as if he has never read the book of Genesis, Exodus, Daniel, Malachi, and pretty much the whole Bible, because it was Godâ€™s will to send a famine to Egypt, send 10 plagues to Egypt, to have the Babylonian captivity, etc.
â€śPastorâ€ť Anderson believes that repentance is not part of the gospel even though the Bible teaches that repentance is part of the gospel message. He says repentance is a meritorious work and therefore not the gospel because the gospel is through faith alone;
Yes the gospel is through faith alone, thatâ€™s why you forsake the world and flee to Christ, so repentance is not a work it is part of your faith.
He teaches that Jesus went to Hell (very blasphemous), he said in a sermon, â€śGod destroyed Sodom and Gamorah with fire and brimstone as we wish God would destroy this filthy gay parade in Phoenixâ€ť
That is against the teaching of scripture in respect to wishing that God would kill certain unsaved people. (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FP0mZ6C8b8I)
So to summarize, he preached a false gospel, he teaches that Jesus went to Hell for 3 days, he teaches that homosexuals should be killed, yet he is a solid Bible teacher?