Unprofitable Servant wrote: Fine John keep the prophet but Apostles were eye witnesses of the Lord Jesus, they are only found in heaven
Bro, the problem with that is, why did Paul think every church ought to have an apostle as well as a pastor? How many apostles have you got? Last time I counted there were 17 named apostles in the Bible. How are 17 men going to supply every church?
Ephesians 4:11-12 KJV (11)¬† And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; (12)¬† For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Could it be that we've elevated the office of apostle far higher than we ought to have done, and ascribed unbiblical thoughts to them and who they were?
Ephesians 4:11 says God has appointed apostles in the church. And each church in 2019 needs to be an apostolic church, we take Paul seriously. Or do we?
Just thinking out loud, brother. __________
Doc, yes the Bible says that we should sing psalms. Far from being my preference or even my tradition, this is alien to me, and difficult to accomplish. But if God says do it, I do it. and rejoice in it. Now I have come to love it.
James Thomas wrote: I see what your after now and yes I did miss it. The faith of the Son versus the faith in the Son. Galatians 2:20 KJV I live by the faith of the Son of God Galatians 2:20 Geneva I liue by the faith in the Sonne of God Personally, I think both express the same picture as here. Same substance, same way,truth,life. 1 Timothy 1:14 with faith and love which is* in Christ Jesus.* 1 Timothy 3:13 in the faith which * is in Christ Jesus.* Looking elsewhere for the same picture, in Acts 14:27 Paul "opened" the Door *OF* faith to the Gentiles which I see as fulfilling the Isaiah 49:6 prophecy of "I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles." How did Paul open the Door of Faith? Acts 14:7 John 10:9 I am the Door
James, let us look at this question. Check the above for any typos on the texts.
How did Paul open the Door of faith?
Give me a while to read the passages and think about it. Later....
Unprofitable Servant wrote: My Bible has an admonition for Pastors (shepherds) to feed the flock of God; mine tells the man God called to head the ministry to preach the Word; mine says God gave the gift of Pastor and evangelist to the church ;mine give specific qualifications for church leaders who minister the Word; mine talks about elders being ordained in every church; mine talks about ministers giving account to God for those in their ministry‚ÄĒthat not in your Bible John?
Sure it is bro. If it is in the Bible, do it. If it is not in the Bible, don't do it. It's that simple.
One of the problems occurs when prophet and pastor appear in the same verse as teacher and evangelist and apostle. So we say, keep the pastor and evangelist and teacher and ditch the prophet and apostle. Sounds weird to me.
"Long before anyone was debating gay marriage, there was a softening of marriage norms among evangelical Christians. Many evangelical congregations and ministries have acquiesced to divorce culture, pornography use, sexual immorality, and lack of church discipline," Burk said. "Because of this erosion of evangelical integrity on issue of sexual morality, it was past time for evangelicals to get their own house in order. Evangelicals needed to recover and reassert what Christ's Church has always believed. And that is why we drafted the Nashville Statement when we did."
This is actually a good thing. And I hope it leads to other things which will benefit the church. To "recover and reassert" things like: festal days being pagan in origin and should not be a part of church life; the singing of psalms in worship which is most biblical and easily proven; the rejection of manmade ideas in the worship of Almighty God; the restoration of all-member ministry in the assembly; the obedience of the great commission; and many other things which, if you realise it or not, means we must go....
I have just read the Nashville Statement, and at a first read see nothing wrong with it as a statement of affirmation/denial of all things to do with the subject. I suppose it could be used as a sort of catechism for church leaders, as it goes into a lot of detail pertaining to 21st century weirdness, and maybe some pastors would not have the wherewithal to write their own statements.
But to my mind, if it is designed to be of influence in the world, then it puts the cart before the horse. The horse always has to be the gospel, up front. This is what is commissioned by Jesus Christ, not arranging petitions for signatories from various churches who divide from each other on other doctrines.
It is the gospel, and the power of Jesus Christ, which alone can do the job of transforming a life; anything else merely intellectualises Christianity, and produces unregenerate but religious tares to top up the pews.
Man is dead in sins, and unable to discern anything of a spiritual nature. It is the new birth, the spiritual rebirth he needs, and this is the work of God the Holy Ghost, ordinarily ministered through the appointed means of preaching the gospel to the lost and perishing souls all around.
James Thomas wrote: Hey John. I wish I had mention this earlier regarding the Galatians 2:20. I believe the first chapter of Timothy paints the same picture of which Paul says he declares *in me first* and should be considered as well. I'll look in tonight. Have a blessed day.
Thank you bro. We can look at that afterwards, if you wish, but at the moment I don't think you saw the difference between the KJV and Geneva Bible, which Bible I know you appreciate. The Geneva has my faith in Christ, the KJV has Jesus's faith in (something). That's the problem. I always read "the faith of Jesus Christ" meant "faith in Christ" until a Dr convinced me otherwise. But I was never happy with it since. Do you have the answer? ___
Thanks TMC, now I got it. I can just picture John 8:32 walking into the local store in his Faraday space suit and getting on national TV. What a great opportunity to give some testimony. ___
Thanks Christopher, I didn't know about that. These criminals are getting clever about how to extract your dosh. Not a bad plan to invest it all in heavenly things, where thieves cannot break through and steal.
Frank, you got my drift precisely, and yes we are in agreement concerning that. If I say to you, "I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God," and you say to me, "I also believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God," then that is our confession of faith.
And you can then say to me, "Blessed art thou, John UK of Wales, for flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto thee, but my Father which is heaven." And then I can say to you, "Blessed art thou, Frank of USA, for flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto thee, but my Father which is heaven."
Buckeyes wrote: (TMC) @John UK ‚ÄúThe problem is, that the RFIDs are going to be injected into our body, either in the hand or forehead.‚ÄĚ Well, if that happens then the Tin Foil Hat Society will be all the rage! ... On the other hand, I‚Äôm not really sold on a literal ‚ÄúMark of the Beast‚ÄĚ. I‚Äôm more inclined to think it denotes a person‚Äôs thoughts (forehead) and actions (right hand) being ruled by Satan; somewhat similar to the symbolisim of rabbinical phylacteries and God‚Äôs law.
TMC, what is this tin foil hat joke? It must be an American thing.
With the "mark of the beast" I keep continually an open mind. But if our guv ever makes an injected chip compulsory, I shall be going off grid myself.
Buckeyes wrote: (TMC) @John UK 1. We are non-denominational as well, for about the same reasons. 2. Given this situation, in my opinion, the Nashville Statement is a long-overdue declaration of orthodoxy and a move to clear up error on this and related subjects within Christ‚Äôs Church.
I‚Äôm afraid I still don‚Äôt understand how the Nashville Statement re-affirming what the Bible says on a subject is ‚Äúadding to the Word of God‚ÄĚ (i.e. Sin) but the WCF, LBC, or JUKSF are all fine?
TMC, amen, I guess it has a lot to do with the statement, "I am of Paul, I am of Apollos" which can be extended to "I am of Calvin, I am of Barnes, I am of Clark, I am of Ravenhill, I am of Ryle, I am of Wesley, I am of Cennick, I am of Lloyd-Jones, I am of Spurgeon, I am of Arminius, I am of Whitefield, I am of Rutherford, I am of Paisley, I am of Waite, I am of Henry T Mahan, I am of Bunyan, and add as many others as you like. When I first attended a church after conversion, I was taught more about human men than about the God-Man.
2. Have you considered that I may be wrong about that? __________
I'm glad to see the other thread closed, as it was filling up with anonymous trolls keen to abuse myself and the ladies. Well done, SA.
Buckeyes wrote: (TMC) ‚ÄúTMC, are you suggesting we all live in a Faraday Cage?‚ÄĚ Nope- just any RFID chips you happen to have. The nice thing is that plastic wrap and foil are exceptionally cheap! Oh, and it works for cell phones too!
Sister, it all sounds good to me.
The problem is, that the RFIDs are going to be injected into our body, either in the hand or forehead. This is so that we can go shopping, because without the chip you cannot buy nor sell.
All dogs in the UK already have a chip, humans are next in line.
Buckeyes wrote: (TMC) @John UK You yourself have quoted the WCF and LBC many times in the last month alone. How are those any different?!?
TMC, sister I will answer as best I can.
It is regrettable to me that the church of Jesus Christ - which is in one body only - should be so fragmented in many pieces. I do not believe this to be biblical, and it is to the shame of us Christians that we permit such a thing to be.
I do not believe a denomination is a biblical thing having warrant. Therefore, in keeping with my beliefs I am non-denominational. I have distinctives, for sure, and some of those distinctives are not held by others in my fellowship, but they are not cause to separate; that is exactly how denominations begin. So you see how I can maintain fellowship with you and your family, despite differences.
The correct creed is THE BIBLE. For sure!
That is where I stand.
Now if James gets back to me, I may develop the doctrine of how I live from scripture, and if I write that down and teach it to others, that is the beginning of mine own confession. "JUKCF"
But these interchurch documents are not for believers to benefit by. They are political, making a point to the world.
Buckeyes wrote: (TMC) As a former KGB officer, in a country where political dissidents and journalists have a tendency to ‚Äúdisappear‚ÄĚ, and witnessing can land you in jail, I‚Äôm sure Kirill is rather familiar with ‚Äúthe collection of user data‚ÄĚ even without an ‚ÄúAntichrist‚ÄĚ on the scene. https://world.wng.org/2018/10/one_state_one_church
Wow, just look at those bishops with their glad rags on.
Buckeyes wrote: (TMC) @John UK "RFID- the dreaded word." Faraday Cage- the solution!
TMC, are you suggesting we all live in a Faraday Cage?
I attended a church in Somerset not far from Taunton. I was recuperating from a serious illness, but was still determined to do some evangelistic work, even if only a little. So I determined to hit the streets every Saturday and give out 100 tracts. That was my aim, and I believed it was realistic. Now, being submissive to the church elders and pastor, I asked them for a meeting, where I could put my proposal to them, and get their approval, so that I would have church backing.
Subsequently, we all met in a cafe in Williton, Somerset, where I discussed my proposal. I had with me two of my tracts, both written by J C Ryle. They asked to see the tracts. After reading the tracts, they all said to me, "You CAN'T give THESE out!"
I enquired as to why not.
The elder said, "Because there are two Bible verses on the back page."
At that point, I began to feel dizzy and bemused and somewhat disappointed. But the Lord came to my aid and said, "Leave the church."
I said to these elders, "I'm sorry but I cannot walk with you the road you are on. So I am leaving the church."
You should have seen the look on their faces.
So don't be surprised when sodomy takes over Somerset; Christians aren't bothered.
I'm not sure what fellow believers hope to achieve with all these declarations, statements, and on and on. Where in the Bible did they get the idea for that?
Oh, I know, it came out of their own brain, and added to the word of God. What a state the church is in today. And still they say, "I am fine, my church is fine, all is well, our committee is fine, our statements are fine."
And whatever happened to the great commission which IS biblical?
James Thomas wrote: In Galatians 2:20 Paul said he lived by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Seems simple enough to me.
James, help me out here, please:
Galatians 2:20 KJV (20)¬† I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Galatians 2:20 Geneva (20) I am crucified with Christ, but I liue, yet not I any more, but Christ liueth in me: and in that that I now liue in the flesh, I liue by the faith in the Sonne of God, who hath loued me, and giuen him selfe for me.
It is a great text, and one of my favourites. But if we take both of these verses literally, they say two opposite things concerning the life we now have. How would you go about arriving at the correct interpretation? ________________
I see there are some (who prefer to remain anonymous) who are going about gnashing their teeth without good cause. Maybe they are communists who just want to close down freedom of speech. Or maybe they are Christians who have no reply to the proposition, and are worried about how they tell their wife - Xmass is out next year!
B. McCausland wrote: John, are you talking about the Free Presbyterian church of Ulster, or Scotland?
I wouldn't have mentioned it, Sister B, but you've asked, so I shall answer. The Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster (as you probably know) has daughter churches abroad in the rest of the UK called Free Presbyterian Church of England and Wales. It was at one of these churches in England, and the pastor's name was Kyle Paisley, who is Ian Paisley's son. It was a really big shock to me, especially as I had struggled to move up there on a shoestring, just to belong to that church, thinking it to be the business, and being so disappointed. I loved the people there, I loved Kyle, did whatever I could to bless the fellowship, but it was all to no avail. The Christmas Tree in the sanctuary was the final straw for me. Since I left, others in the fellowship also left, even officers of the church, although I know not their personal reasons.
June, that is so sad. I met Ian Paisley when he came up to his son's church for the weekend, and he ministered. He was so loud there no need for a PA system. It was the only service I've attended where two armed plain clothes security men were in attendance.
June A. Nadolny wrote: Thanks John. So all those Protestant churches in displaying a "Nativity scene" are displaying their blatant disregard / contempt for God's Word and their members are indifferent/ oblivious to it all.
The ones I have spoken to about it, are for sure either indifferent or oblivious to it all. They see themselves as the ones in the right, with no intention of seeking counsel from God's word.
I was in a Free Presbyterian church once, at this time of year, and I asked, "What is this big Christmas Tree doing in the main body of the building, where we have our worship?" And what did I get by way of a response? Laughter. Chuckling at me as though I was some spiritual party-pooper come out of an asylum.
June A. Nadolny wrote: John-UK wrote: "Nativity scenes? Can't think of any Bible verses for that one." ‚ÄúYou shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments (Exodus 20:4-6). John . . Is not the statue of the "baby Jesus", who never ceased to be God a violation of Ex. 20:4-6? John Gill (18th c.) ‚ÄúNo image of God was to be made at all, since no similitude was ever seen of Him, or any likeness could be conceived; and it must be a piece of gross ignorance, madness and impudence to pretend to make one; and great impiety to worship it.‚ÄĚ
Ah yes, June. I thought you meant Bible verses in support of such practices.
So Amen to that, God's commandments give us clear direction, as Geoff Thomas (SA broadcaster, now retired from his church) told me when I asked him face to face.