Jesus didn't quote from all of the OT and neither did the NT.
Where does the bible say that Gods words are always introduced by "It is written" or "Thus saith the Lord"? Jesus didn't use those phrases.
Is there a single ancient (BTW, how old is ancient?) document that contains all of the OT? Or are there fragments of documents?
The Jews believed and still believe in praying for their dead (Kadesh). Jesus was a Jew, he prayed for the repose of his dead step-father's soul.
Hebrews 9:27 only proves that men die and are judged.
Read Judith 9 again. Holofernes had come to destroy God's people. She isn't lying for personal gain, but to save her people. Didn't Jacob deceive Isaac? Didn't Abraham deceive the King - Gen 20:5? What would you do to save your family....pretend to cooperate with evil? Would you pray to God to be successful that your family could survive?
1) "If we confess our sins..." Resp: I do confess my sins to God. Is it 'Ok' that one of his servants is there to listen, give advise and assure me of God's love and forgiveness thru the power that Christ lent him?
2) "HE is God thru Jesus Christ our ONLY mediator..." Resp: I know that you meant to say, "our only mediator to God the Father", because anyone may be a mediator to Jesus, including you, me, Mary,....and Jesus.
3) "For there is one God and one mediator between God (Father) and men, the man Christ Jesus." 2 Tim 2:5 (KJV) Resp: Ah...there it is!
4) "Why is that so hard...?" Resp: I understand perfectly.
5) Why is it so hard for you to understand that asking a living brother or sister to pray for you is no more different than asking a Saint who stands in God's presence to pray for you?
6) Why since the Jews allowed 'circumsistion' and 'Bar Mitzfa's' for their children to become members of God's family, that God wouldn't allow the same kind of path for Christians ["be baptized....in the name of J.C. that your SINS may be forgiven...to you and your Children that the promise was made"-Act2:38-39],["you are now saved by a baptismal bath..."- 1 Peter 3:21]
May I remind both of you that the Jews may not be the best bunch of folk to emmulate, since they did reject Jesus. I understand they rejected the Deuts/Aproc becuause they were written in Greek and not Hebrew.
Lyn: About the worthiness of the Deuterocanonical books (re: Apocrypha). 1-There were at least two canons of scripture for Jesus' time. The Alexandrian canon and the Palestian canon, which came after Jesus. The Alexandrian canon refers to the city of Alexandra in Egypt where the Library of Alexandra was built to house all of man's written knowledge. All the then known Hebrew and Greek books of Judaism were cataloged. The result was the Septuagent scroll, which existed 200 years before Christ and was the only version of scripture that Christ and the Apostles knew. In fact over 75% of the bible quotes in the Christian bible are from the Septuagent. What you call the 'Apocrypha' was included in the Septuagent. The books known as 1 & 2 Maccabees were part of this compilation. They tell the story of Hannuka, which was a festival of Judaism. Since Jesus was a good Jew, Jesus' celebrated Hannuka, so don't tell me that Jesus didn't read and understand the books of the Maccabees [John 10:22-23]. The Deuterocanonical books were decided on by the 4th century and NO ONE disagreed until the Reformation. Even early copies of the KJV had the Deuts, until some flaming heretic had the nerve to remove them in the 19th century. We did not add, but you subtracted...t'is a sin...Lyn!
Lyn: The root of 'Kecharitomene' is 'Charis'. See "Catholicism and Fundamentalism" by Karl Keating, pp 268-269. Jesus is the 'Word of God', not a book produced by people.
DJC49: The writings of the Church Fathers, the Councils of the Catholic Church, the Cathecism of the RCC, The Nicene Creed, the Apostle's Creed. Where the Church Fathers unamimously agreed there is no room for speculation, only where they disagree, unless of course the RCC has already settled the matter by a declaration from the chair of St Peter (Infallible teaching).
Mh: When 2 Tim was written, there was no New Testament. So Fundi's don't need the NT to be complete and equipped for every good work...Huh? Please note, the quote says complete for every good work...not complete! A few things that you might not know: 1-Holy Tradition is the word of God as taught to the Apostles and later to their replacements. 2-Holy Tradition can not contradict Scripture, as the RCC understands scripture. 3-While Scripture is God's word, Jesus didn't come to write Bibles, he came to set up the Church. Hence, the Church is to use the Bible as its own hand book and follow it's commands, but Jesus' oral teaching as well, under the guidance of the H.S. 4-God is not the liar, but rather the men who twist his words. Lyn: To say that Moslems worship the one true God, does not imply Catholic approval of their core beliefs any more than our belief that Protestants do. JPII has been seen kissing the tarmac at 100 different airports...does this imply that these are Holy too! Protestants and Catholics are both Christians and share 2000 years of history, but it's a fool who can't tell his friends from his foes. Max: (Silence + the chirping of crickets)
I have no problem with Scripture, I love Scripture. Mary is in Heaven with her God and Saviour, why would she read Scripture. But, if you will recall the Great Debate between "Sola Scriptura" vs Holy Tradition and the Lord's promise to send the H.S., who will lead us in all truth, then you will remember that Catholics believe that not all of truth is written literally, some truth is implied in scripture, and some truth comes from the spoken words of Christ to his Apostles, and some is revealed by the H.S. through prayer and over the fullness of time. No where in Scripture does Scripture claim to be the entire library of the faithful; this is Protestantism's great man made tradition (little t). The Immaculate Conception, which so many Fundi's love to mock, is implied in Luke 1:28. The Greek word 'kecharitomene', is found in only one place in this form, it implies an intensive and extensive transformation and perfection of grace in the early life of Mary that lasts thru her whole life. If in God's view, one is 'Full of Grace', then one has no lack of grace, therefore, one is perfect in God's sight, his work in Mary was completed. Only Jesus could claim the same level of grace and he was God. Believe it or not God has more wisdom in store up for man, than is written in man's books.
DJC49: That "Satanic Whore" that y'all wontonly slander is venerated by millions of actual Christians, evidentially "Not So!" with the sterile Fundi's of SA, nor those "Guardians of Truth", the half-blind Moderators who tend this site like toothless Junk Yard dogs. So be it! There is not a Biblical Mary and a Catholic Mary, there is only one. It was the Orthodox and Catholic Christians that she spoke of when she said, "All generations shall call me blessed...". Catholics have always only worshiped the Trinity and Mary is not God. The Masses in her honor do not worship her, but merely remind us of her special place in God's family and her nearness to the Savior that he should save his Mother from degradation. Missing any Sunday or Holiday Mass on purpose is a mortal sin. Missing a Mass due to circumstance beyond your control is not. I would gladly shed light for those who can see. You SAY that you see, but your sin remains. MH: You foster a lie when you say that the RCC holds the Islamic faith on the same level as it regards Christianity. Please recall that Catholics and not Protestants have always gone against the Moslems to save Christianity[Crusades, War against the Moors in Spain, Defense of France, Defense of Europe agains the Turks, Battle of Lepanto].
Moderator...please note: The post by Max of 11/30/08-8:26am. The use of the term "Satanic Whore" to refer to what Orthodox, Catholic, and some Protestants believe is the Mother of Jesus Christ is an offense. If you will censor me, surely you will act against this outrage!
Lyn: Unlike you, I am willing to give most people the benefit of the doubt until all doubt is removed. Not all Moslems are killers. Those who are killers worship no god at all, but only do the Devil's bidding. Those Christian Fundi's who preach hate do likewise. I do recognize Islam as heresy and I reject it. I've made my choice to follow Jesus.
MH: It is not up to me to research every iota of the theology of Islam and condemn all Moslems. However, I have determined that I want nothing to do with Islam and have resolved to watch them as a dangerous and war-like group. "By their fruit you will know them", so far their fruit looks alot like so many severed heads. Friends and family know me and what fruit I bring too well to be fooled. The sheep will recogize his voice and avoid a stranger.
Do the Jews worship the same God that we do? Do the American Indians? If some people call me by my first name, and other people call me by 'GG'. Am I not the same person? If you call me 'GG' and you believe that I live in a hole in the ground, but others think I live in a house...you both know who I am, but some of you are badly misinformed. I understand that the Moslem's accept the Bible as an inspired book. They accept Jesus as a prophet, Mary as his mother, they even believe in angels and Satan. Unfortunately, like Protestants, somewhere along the way they bought into a lie.
Lyn, you make amazing leaps without my having any input. Could you not put words and false beliefs into my mouth. 1) There is more to... People who acknowledge Abraham and who worship one God, surely must believe they are worshiping the one God of their ancestors faith, however they choose to twist it.
2) Not every one who is... I agree. I never said that Moslem's are children of God in the same Christian use of the term.
3) Do you honestly... No, they will pay for their crime on earth or in Hell.
4) Are you will...just because... We don't side with any apostate religion...theirs or yours. But, we are commanded to preach the Gospel to the whole world. It's really hard to do that while you are condemning your audience to fiery Baptist Hell.
5) May God have mercy... Thanks and on yours as well.
6) You are truly ignorant... Not at all. I think that we should oppose Militant Islam wherever we find it...not just with force, but with education and justice.
I know exactly who and what Moslems are and I am not defending them. I am only pointing out that there is more to their faith than you are willing to acknowledge. I intend to resist militant Islam as long as I am able, but to be fair I must acknowledge that Ismael was a son of Abraham and Arab Moslems are decended from Ismael. To do this much is simple justice. The God of the Vatican is most definitely the God of the Bible, to say otherwise is to plant a kiss on the lips of the Father of lies. Something which you and HR don't seem to mind doing.
I think that Christians, Moslems (who trace themselves to Abraham) and Jews all believe in one God...the same God. But, I at least understand that the differing faiths have differing beliefs about that one God and I reserve the right to reject those beliefs that I believe are false. Belief in the one God is not a saving faith, a belief in Jesus Christ is the only path to Salvation regardless of your faith system. However, a firm belief in the one God could someday lead to a revelation of the true Savior of mankind...provided some preachers of Gospel can be found...and they don't chase the sinners away with their unchristian attitudes.
We must hold out the hope that not all Moslems are intent on a Jihad against Christianity; at least until proven otherwise. The fact at a few militants can cause you to demonize all Moslems is proof that you are too immature in the faith to lead children much less adults in any responsible direction. The only people talking about God these days in Europe are the Vatican and the Moslems. Perhaps Europe will awaken from their coma before all of her religious sites are turned into living quarters for horses. Actions do speak louder than words, and Moslem silence speaks loud as well. Perhaps God sent the scurge of Islam to stir Europe back into faithfulness. We must hope and pray so.
If there is anyone who is more ignorant of both Islam and Catholicism than Lyn and HR, I would like to meet them. While Islam, Christianity and a few other faiths can be deemed monotheistic, that does NOT imply that their understanding of the ONE creator is held in common. To the extent that the Moslims see themselves as offspring of Abraham, we must acknowledge that they are corrupted believers in the one God of the Bible. That does not imply that their view of God is in any way correct or admirable. In fact, I would rather see all foreign born Moslims banned from the US as dangerous aliens. The threat of the rise of Sharia Law in the US must be met with the fiercest Federal Judicial resistance. The RCC can engage peaceful Moslims in dialog and open doors that have been shut for centuries. While the Catholic faith is not a part of the apostate circus known as Reformation Christianity, it is still the Mother faith of all Christians and founded by Christ himself.
The article speaks of Moslims as having introduced the topic of 'God' back into European circles of discussion, after a long absense. This does not mean that Cardinal Tauran is recommending Islam in any fashion, other than to acknowledge that Moslim's have put 'God' back on the European radar screen...nothing more.