Or should I call you Dr. Harsh? Let me address the text and some of your misconceptions first.
As you point out, a disciple is a follower. However, people first decide to follow Jesus before they learn to observe all that He has commanded us. Discipleship is a process which starts with trusting in Christ.
1) Go 2) Preach to make disciples 3) Baptize 4) Teach
You have people saved before baptism which is wrong.
â€śHe that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.â€ť â€â€Markâ€¬ â€16:16â€¬
You canâ€™t be saved unless you have been baptized into Christ. In fact, you donâ€™t belong to God if you havenâ€™t been baptized.
â€śBut ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.â€ť â€â€Romansâ€¬ â€8:9â€¬ â€
Now the question of whether the disciples of Christ ever could baptize.
â€śThen laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because t
There is no other way to be saved then to be baptized.
â€śWhoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.â€ť â€â€Markâ€¬ â€16:16â€¬
So itâ€™s not that saved people ought to be baptized, it is that they are baptized already.
So Christians arguing about the mode of baptism is silly because there is no mode or ordinance to it.
Why is baptism singled out as something different than things which are to be observed?
â€śGo therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."â€ť â€â€Matthewâ€¬ â€28:19-20â€¬
Go, make disciples, baptizing, and teach to observe all that Jesus commanded.
â€śJohn appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.â€ť â€â€Markâ€¬ â€1:4â€¬
It was to prepare the people for the Messiah.
â€śI myself did not know him, but for this purpose I came baptizing with water, that he might be revealed to Israel."â€ť â€â€Johnâ€¬ â€1:31â€¬
So why was Jesus baptized by John the Baptist?
â€śJohn would have prevented him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?" But Jesus answered him, "Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he consented.â€ť â€â€Matthewâ€¬ â€3:14-15â€¬
Jesus was submitting Himself to the command of God to be baptized although He had nothing to repent of. It was to fulfill the righteous requirements of God.
2) The Eunuch was a Gentile believer and was either wanting to be baptized with Johnâ€™s baptism as a testimony to his belief in Christ, although it wasnâ€™t necessary. Or he wanted to become converted to the Jewish faith because he believed in Jesus. Remember at that time Peter had not yet had his vision of the unclean meat and Christianity was thought of as a sect of Judaism.
Very good link, I think everyone should read it! However, I think he is still wrong. Although I donâ€™t agree with everything he says about it, Jack Cottrell wrote a very good book on the subject also. Entitled, â€śBaptism A Biblical Studyâ€ť.
One of the things that Jack points out in his book that Rugh misunderstands is:
â€śAnd Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."â€ť â€â€Matthewâ€¬ â€28:18-20â€¬
The order is go, make disciples, baptize, and then teach them to observe. Why is baptism of a higher importance that it should be singled out if it is just another thing to be observed like communion? Baptism, in fact, cannot be observed (not what Jack Cottrell believes, but nonetheless).
There are landmines all over South Korea. When I was stationed over there in the 90â€™s, someone in my battalion had the unfortunate experience of stepping on a percussion landmine which shattered the bones in his foot, but thankfully he survived.
I know someone who used to be a nurse and swears that used to happen. She said someone would come in and seem like they were going to make it and be okay and the next thing she knew the person was dead and they were harvesting organs. She told me not to be an organ donor, at least not on my license!
We are saved by Jesus, not ourselves, but it is our choice to open the door or not.
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. Revelation 3:20
Faith is an act if obedience.
Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that oneâ€™s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16
You can obey your flesh or obey God. None of this I can't believe if I have the opportunity to nonesense. God wanted the Pharisees and Jerusalem to believe but they chose not and some people choose to place their trust in Jesus for salvation. Nobody will go to Hell because they didn't have an opportunity or ability to believe. You sound alittle fatalistic my friend!
The gospel enlightens and brings about conviction of sin.
For â€śwhoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.â€ť How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:13â€-â€¬14â€, â€¬17
After hearing the gospel and believing is when one is sealed with the Holy Spirit.
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13
The "quickening" that you talk about only happens when a believer is placed in Christ.
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, Ephesians 2:5â€-â€¬6
People put on Christ after they believe.
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Galatians 3:26â€-â€¬27
Putting on Christ is what makes us son's because He is the Son.
Faith isn't a work of salvation, but it is what we must do to be saved.
I believe they happen simultaneously at baptism. At baptism a person is made alive and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
Putting on Christ?
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. Galatians 3:27â€, â€¬29
The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. Romans 13:12â€-â€¬14
I also believe God quickens sinners. So does this happen before they believe or after? Obviously AFTER!
Now, how can people know spiritual things if they don't have the Spirit of Christ within them convicting them? The sinner can only know of Jesus Christ through the preaching of the gospel which they will receive! Then when they are filled with the Spirit they know the things of the Spirit.
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13
Notice the order? Hear, believe, and sealed in the Spirit.
My second point was bizarre because it is the logical conclusion of your viewpoint! If dead people have no ability to believe because they are dead then they would have no ability to sin either because they are dead. However, their guilt shows their ability to believe because they don't.
The third point was bizarre to you because you think you are now righteous because of your innocents before God, but you are not righteous.
I also believe God quickens sinners. So does this happen before they believe or after? Obviously before!
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 2 Corinthians 5:17