Thanks Lyn for your kind offer. Your understanding of God is like mine. It's the Calvinists that I have trouble understanding. My wife is a 5 pt Calvinist and we have declared a truce, but even with our differences we still have much more in common. It's when I come on SA that I think there is nothing in common between Catholics and Evangelicals.
Question: According to Calvinism, salvation is all about God. Therefore, if God doesn't want to save you, there is nothing...nothing...nothing that you can do to save yourself...right? Does this mean that God will save everyone that he can, which is everybody, or are some beyond God's reach? If it is all about God's power then no one should go to hell...unless God chooses to put them there. Why would he do that...isn't God just?
The Church is saying that the Vatican still wants to be able to preach against Homosexuality was a sin and a false life style without voting to allow the persecution and judicial lynching of Homosexuals across the Globe. Some of you 2-cycle mental giants may remember criticising the Catholic Church for sending certain religiously confused people to prison and death during the Inquistions while failing to recall the failure of Prot Churches and Prot Govt in Ireland and England. Why is that?
For anyone who is even remotely awake mentally, you will soon realize that some of those alleged Catholics that RULE CONGRESS are: Ted 'Lets take the bridge' Kennedy, John 'Heinz-57' Kerry, Nancy 'just washed by brain and can't do a thing with it" Pelosi, Joe 'The Smoe' Biden, any others, who support Abortion rights in defiance to their Church's teaching. Catholics don't Rule Congress....Socialist, Anti-American, Elitist, Obama-ite, nut-wads do!
Dear Banned: What planet were you born on? I wonder if you noticed the many headless Westerners what were murdered by the "Religion of Peace"? I wonder if you've noticed the many 'Suicide Bombers' spreading Islamic cheer throughout Israel, Kenya, North Africa, Iraq, the US, the UK, Asia? I don't care how they dress, eat, pray, or go to the potty...but I do care that they kill folks and that they kill cruely. The early Christians were Jews, the Messiah of the Jews IS JESUS, they just don't know that yet! While I agree that the US should follow its own interests in the Middle East, the security of Israel is currently in our best interest. Get Real!
Lyn: I read your last post...I have been trying to agree with that sentiment for several of my own. Yes, we sin when our thoughts go astray, but it's the sin that is to be hated and not the sinner. In no way will I accept homosexual culture, politics or activity...I will oppose them in any way, shape or form that I find them in my life and the lives of those that I care for. But we should be as compassionate as we can and yet oppose evil. Your misquote of me, made it appear that I believe that "thinking sexual thoughts about women" is not a sin...it is...once you make room in your mind to plant them and let them grow...when they first appear, they are only temptations.
Kenny: That fact that someone has a propensity toward an immoral act is not a problem so long as they DON'T ACT on that propensity. If they can't control that urge, especially when it comes to crimes like fraud, theft, violence, murder, and rape, we put them in jail. If we have a tendency toward viewing people as sex objects, we can learn to reject those thoughts. Just having them is not sin, but the cultivation of the thought patterns so that these thoughts return in frequency and intensity is. In NO WAY do I accept or condone homosexual acts, culture, or thought patterns. And if they interrupt my Church services I will be VERY ANGRY. But the people are still just sinners and not devils. Lyn: Can a ex-homosexual find redemption or should they all be handed over to the Devil? If you say that they can be saved then you agree with me that merely being a person with a tendency toward homosexual thoughts is not sinful...entertaining the thoughts and acting on them is. DJC49: "Trying to come up with a biological/materialistic explanation..." Resp: I agree, but some sins like addiction and some suicides have a biological cause. Which, doesn't excuse the act, but may make us say, "There but for the grace of God go I". Lyn:"thinking sexual thoughts about women". You miss quote me!
Well I guess that I shouldn't be surprised. I thought Bush 41 was against abortion...he wasn't. I thought Bush 43 was a good American...after his support for illegal immigration, Nafta, Cafta, the North American Union, support for interference of the Hague in American Legal affairs...I found out he wasn't. I thought that Bush 43 was an honest man...he has recently pardoned serval drug dealers and asorted bad guys, while leaving Ramos and Compean to rot in prison while their families suffer....he's not. SO NOW I FIND OUT HE DOESN'T BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE.....somehow....it figures!
I think that some people are born homosexual. That their brains are not touched by the proper hormone while they were being developed in the womb. Some, women are lesbians because of sexual abuse, and some men are raised with too strong a female influence in their lives and not a strong male influence. Then there are people who are bounded and determined to practice every rotten act that fallen man can conceive of, just because it's depraved. I think that having homosexual thoughts is not sinful as such, until they are enjoyed and dwelt upon. Thinking sexual thoughts about women is not a sin until we welcome the thought and give it a place to thrive. Hell is full of people who loved sin more than God...only some of those people are gay...the rest broke one, or several, of the other commandments.
Behavior is a large part of sin, and the evil thoughts that are not immediately vanquised from the mind, are the other. Thus, we are left to discuss whether homosexuality is merely an adopted life-style of sin, or are some people born as homosexuals. In the immortal words of President-elect Obama, "That is above my pay grade".
I wonder if Ashlar is aware that both of the Bible quotes that he/she gave, have to do with homosexual acts, or having pleasure in there action, and not the tendency toward homosexuality. There is no sin in temptation until we submit to it. God's grace is sufficient.
What a shame this Muslim lawyer won't come to Texas. We have a way of handling Tin Horn Dictators. We break all their toys and send them back home to mama! Them that stay, wish they hadn't. Where is the spirit of Harold of England, who when asked by Sven Fork Beard for land, promised Sven 6 feet of it? These scum are the new invaders of Saladin...may England send them back to the rocks they were born under, with their lousey religion! Huzzah!
Resp: Yes they do. The work is Jesus' and not ours, the power is given by him not within ourselves. Jesus commands us to be baptised and baptize the world. He commands us to "eat his flesh and drink his blood". The Church is commanded to offer Christ's forgiveness to sinners for their errors for which there is sincere sorrow and a firm purpose to avoid sin in the future. In short, doing God's will and following Christ's commands are absolutely necessary for salvation. But, at the Last Judgement, it is Jesus himself who will decide if we enter into paradise or damnation.
The trouble with accusing Catholics with "Works Salvation" is: 1)- It's a Calumny against us and a lie from the Devil. 2)- We don't believe that works save us, only Jesus will, and not our membership in any Church. 3)- We believe that God gives us the grace to do all of our good works, hence, the good works are his. He is merely rewarding his good work in us. 4)- However, faith without good works is dead faith and will not save. This is why we insist that "Faith alone" is wrong. Another reason is that the only place where "Faith alone" is mentioned int the Bible is in James 2:24, "...a person is justified by his faith and NOT BY FAITH ALONE".
"You've hit upon THE major issue..." Resp: Then let me make sure that you understand clearly our POV. We are saved by God's Grace, through faith....but NOT BY FAITH ALONE, rather we were saved by Faith, Hope, and Charity. We were saved when Christ died, we are being saved every day, we will finally be saved when we get to Heaven.
Lyn: I thought everything in the Bible was the word of God. Now you're saying some of those words are sinful...huh...Who'd a thunkit? But, I see that you would condemn someone for doing all in their power to save their people from a Holocost. I'll bet even God would understand her plight, but not you. Forgive me, but I'll take God's mercy over man's everytime.
DJC49: "where you got the idea..." Resp: From these few facts: 1)Jews have a history of praying for their dead. 2)Jesus' Step-father died. 3)Jesus was the perfect Jew. 4)Jesus prayed for his father's soul.
"...commenting on...Luke 1:28..." Resp: The Greek is "Chaire kecharitomene hou kyrios meta sou". Most Prots and Catholic bibles render kecharitomene as "Highly favored daughter", which is not strong enough. It should read: "Joyful greetings to [you who has been perfectly and completely graced from the past and will be graced perfectly and completely forever] the Lord is with you".
Jim...Jim...Jim, how long must I correct your total lack of understanding and woefully faulty research. Anathema does not call down God's curse in order to send you to Hell, not like you did to BXVI, but it cuts you off from the graces available from the RCC. As we both know, this is something that you would gladly do 20 times an hour.