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Jim, you can either say, āMan I blew it, I was wrong, thanks for pointing out my errors.ā Or you can simply turn a blind eye to your errors...thereās probably other options, but Iāll have you figure it out.
Jim, I beg of you to listen with your ears, all denominations deal with this, it is not just IFB churches, whether or not you will accept that is on you, if you think itās only the IFB churches, then I cannot help you.
B.McCausland, surely you know that if youāre going to accuse someone of faulty logic...then you should point out the faulty logic.
Again, Christians arenāt worshipping glurg the god of essential oils, if you have a problem with decorating Godās tree with festive decorations, then donāt buy one.
And if you take your position to itās logical extreme, then you have to do away with wedding rings...because thereās no biblical warrant for them. So will you take your position to itās logical extreme?
I find it interesting that this thread shifted from an atheist billboard, to a rant on Christmas trees. Oy vey, please people, take a chill pill, if you donāt like Christmas trees than donāt have one, and if you are going to get in arguments with someone, please listen to the other side and put things in prospective.
Christians who have Christmas trees arenāt celebrating the birth of Tammaz the god of tree sap. Give thanks that they want to celebrate Christās birth, and that they love Christ. Take a gander at Dr. Timās post...it gives good prospective.
I think it would do us well to examine the worldview of atheism. Atheism is the belief that there is no God, humans are merely a meat bag that came by accident. We have no purpose, life is absurd and there is no afterlife.
Therefore, when the atheist says, āSupernatural Belief -- The Enemy of Humanity.ā Is this true? By what standard is this true? How do we know itās true? Who is the vicar of Nature to determine who and what is an enemy?
Even if we were to accept their claim, humanity is simply pollution that is harming nature, and the more humans we can get rid of, the better.
Connor7, ādo you have an overseeing authority above elders and pastors- which denominations do?ā
Yes and no. I have the authority by Jesus to confront the pastor if he teaches modalism, I have the authority to demand a church meeting where the members talk to the pastor about his modalism, I have the authority to call the churches that support our church and tell them the heresy that the pastor is teaching, and the members have the authority to ākick him outā (by the way, we would do this if thereās no repentance) and since we have another elder, we would still have a pastor.
āDenominations can have church conferences or whatever to rid a member church of an errant pastor.ā Yep. We can do that. And I hope to see conferences in the future.
āThis is not the case with Independent fundamentalist Baptist Churches.ā
See above rebuttals. Even my former IFBC would remove an elder if necessary (by the way, that IFB church had a plurality of elders) So Iām not sure what youāre babbling about. More to come...
I thank Dr. Tim for echoing what I said yet saying it better than I did, and Dr. Tim is pointing out that you cannot use double standards. And if I may be so bold, lumping all IFB churches in one mold is very childish.
Back to Jim:
āThe problem is Connor7 that IFBs are not a denominationā See point #2
āeven denominations have a hard time getting rid of an errant pastor if he's extremely popular with the cult members ie church members of his congregation.ā
Not sure how this is relevant or what your point is. But see point #3
āapparently with IFBs I guess they will have to have a standing committee, naturally an informal one who can prepare people who need to break off.ā
Youāre lumping all IFB churches in on pot...very childish.
It seems rather strange that some Christians wouldnāt want to celebrate His birth, Luke gives a very detailed account of His birth, read the beginning of Luke, heās writing to theophilus, and he wants to write down the account of Jesus, something that Theophilus had been orally taught but Luke wanted him to have a physical account.
And Luke is incredibly focused on the Incarnation, read it for yourself, the angels celebrated Christās birth, if Christ was not born, the prophecies could not come to pass, there would not be a second Adam, and there would not be a New Testament or the atonement...so the birth sounds pretty important.
I think we should celebrate His birth, (though it is not sin if you donāt, it is my personal opinion) but still, I think Christians should seiz the season, and show who the true Christ is, that Jesus is God, etc.
1. You did not answer my question, instead you tried to dodge the question.
2. The IFBC (for the most part) is a denomination, just like how the ānon-denominationā church is a denomination. IFBC usually only supports IFB churches.
3. Iām a member of a IFB church and we have 2 pastors, and both of them are fully accountable to the church, and are open to correction if correction is necessary. If our pastor were to start teaching modalism, or Unitarianism, we would confront him, and if no change, we would have him removed.
4. The article by Dr. Wallace is not relevant since we have a plurality of elders. I think we have maybe at most 50 people at our main service, so thereās no need for 7 elders.
5. Your keen ability to connect politics to ecclesiastical matters is quite amazing.
āPoliticians and religious fundamentalists are neither scientists nor scholars,ā
Appeal to authority. I may not be a mathematician, but I do know that 1+1=2 and that 9 to the 2nd power is 81. And likewise I may not be a scientist, I still know that there is only 2 genders, all Iāve ever seen is two genders, and these two genders can, in most cases, produce offspring.
Just as mathematics is grounded in the fact that there are numbers, and that there is truth, likewise is the fact that there is only 2 genders. Iāve never heard of a case where a woman produced a child that was neither male or female, science deals with observation, and all we have observed is male and female.
Not all IFBC are created equal. Sure there are cultic IFB churches, ever heard of Steven Anderson and the IFB churches that fall into legalism (you must wear suit and tie, you must go down to the altar call, you must only use the KJV, and Calvinists are going straight to Hell, itās our way or the highway, etc)
Like all other denominations, you have the Solid IFB, and then the...not so solid IFB. As to the allegations, it is to be innocent until proven guilty. I think overall all the comments have been good, although I am curious Jim, how many IFB churches have you attended?.
And whether Christmas is a pagan holiday, a Catholic holiday, or a Tammuz Holiday, we should seiz this moment to spread the gospel, this is the time where people are somewhat interested in the birth of Jesus.