US, you were diverting focus in 1/3/19 5:33pm. The matter was not what you state. John's forceful argument had arrived to a climax cornering the opponent into an undeniable place of reason, from which most decided conveniently to vacate through the back door, giving into mutual merry wishes and joking afterwards.
Christ's detractors, out of malice, hang on to his uterances to catch him in fault by his own words, Lk 20:20. This is a diabolical fault, and of this same people it was said that as a practice they eased up their guilty conduct with sanctimonious prayer talk, Mat. 23:13-15. People involved in this present thread, have partaken of the same strategy, and after resisting evidence, they eased by resorting to boasting and joking.
We are partakers of the divine nature if we are truly Christ's, or does the behaviour of some partake of the unregenrate nature displayed by Christ's detractors? This brings into question if such are born from above, not only by mouth, but by the sanctifying Spirit.
If one prefers to keep the season in spite of the evidence presented, fair enough, let him take it and explain so, rather that to affront truth
Sin definition, "him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin"
John UK wrote: ... here is the list of holy days in the CoE. Now you tell me which one is not sin and ought to be celebrated by all Christians. St Andrew St Thomas Nativity of Christ St Stephen St John Evangelist Innocents' Day Circumcision Epiphany Conversion of St Paul Purification of Virgin Mary St Matthias Annunciation of Our Lady Ash-Wednesday Monday before Easter Tuesday before Easter Wednesday before Easter Thursday before Easter Good Friday Easter Even Monday in Easter Week Tuesday in Easter Week St Mark St Philip and St James Ascension-Day Monday in Whitsun Week Tuesday in Whitsun Week St Barnabas St John Baptist St Peter St James St Bartholomew St Matthew St Michael St Luke St Simon and St St Jude All Saints Thanks
Answer, Regarding what the CofE does; it matters not to me. I'm answerable to God for what I do.
Regretfully, key challenges when coming up to the point are often lightly and conveniently dismissed.
It seems that the concept of sin in the evangelical population is fastly approximating the concept the Pharisees had, that to know what was right from wrong they needed a myriad list of specific regulations, as to how many miles one could walk in a Sabbath day before if was sin, or what measure of depth one could dig before ...
Sin is the transgression of the law, but also we read that whatsoever *is not of faith* is sin.
What commandment did David disobey when sinning against the Lord in censing the children of Israel? Or what commandment had God in mind when Scriptures state that Job sinned not by ascribing God his misfortunes? By the same rule, what commandment an individual is disobeying by adhering to substance abuse? There is no sentence or tittle in Scriptures stating 'thou shalt not take opiods'.
More likely, what John UK had in mind is the spirit of the law, as Jesus had: "I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
By adding to God's worship out of our whim we fail to obey the first command of loving him with all our strength, which means saying, "yes, Lord, all in your terms only and what is aiming to honour your intend".
Thanks for offering clarification, sir. Perhaps there are more angles than one from which to assess the whole. Nevertheless, dialogue in good faith is positive to human understanding. (No one of us understands as we should yet, the Scripture states). Yet it has to be agreed that there has been a mixture of many things, from foolish hermeneutics, careless banter, presumption to stuborned closed thinking. But, let's not forget also the gracious and positive interchange. Every blessing.
Land of cotton friend, Perhaps memory fails at times, sir, and things get muddled up in a long trail of passed recollections, but before generalizations and bland statements are passed, it is advisable to be accurate about where the main 'jangling' figured, as false witness is what a commandment focuses on. Take care
June A. Nadolny wrote: ... detractors ... adversaries The Lord bless you and keep you. 2 Tim. 4:3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine;" In Christ, June
Thanks again for your kind fellowship, June. Yeah, quite sad that negative words and verses as above have to be thought off in some situations.
In spite of the jesting taking over the thread, one is tempted to hope that besides the foolish talk (Eph.5:4) there might be some choosing to *ponder* true facts in the quietness of their hearts as Mary did in Luke 2:
"... all they that heard it wondered at those things ... but Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart."
May your year be replenished with the good things from above to serve Him.
"But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me." Isaiah 41:8 & 44:21
Banging on Sorry, but your own moniker denounces you. Please reconsider rereading the thread before ascribing ignoble motives. You are inferring what you want to see in my posts, but not what they actually intend. It seems obvious that your take is totally misguided by personal passion and bias. Then, regretfully contempt leads into unnecesary insult, and disdain which is forbidden scripturally. However, very differently, the describing of actual happenings, by definition, is never pernicious.
Open forums as this often reveal character beyond theology, the actual reality in this particular thread being that nay-sayers state their objections against the season out of conscience sake, and the other side does not like it.
Ad hominem practice having many antecendents in Scripture then occurs providing occasion for the flesh to act up: " they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake ..." so they attacked Stephen's person to death.
False hermeneutics regretfully turn up often also; while differently to the spotless Christ, the ultimate defence against oponents is to hurl against female participants, applying the rules of a church setting to an open forum, and human nature repeats itself.
The great benefit of all is the learning and growth element, which interaction provides, as iron sharpens iron, trusting Christ likeness may increase through it all.
Greetings of peace and grace for the new year in the Lord's will to all in the like precious faith.
Land of Cotton subdit, Ad hominem is the reaction directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
The Urban dictionary explaines it as,
An attack upon an opponent in order to discredit their arguement or opinion. Ad hominems are used by immature and/or unintelligent people because they are unable to counter their opponent using logic and intelligence.
Dr. Tim wrote: No, these facts will be ignored ... Minds have already been made ...
Regretfully yeah-sayers produce no convincing answers to the facts presented by the other side, and often they present no valid facts for their case beyond pasting texts for the incarnation, which in biblical terms is God manifested in flesh over the period of 33 years in our era, not on a *single day-event* as many wish to believe.
This is where the confusion lyes, whereby Christ is regarded consciously or not, as a disconneted human being from the deity, applying to him the birthday wishes of our Western concept, or the merry-wonder-land good intentions of the occasion.
Emmanuel, God with us, speaks of the lamb of God eternally sacrificed, not of a petty event limited to a chosen date, 25/12 or 1/6, ... "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
The heaven opening in praise, in Lk.2:13-14, offers a glance of heaven's reality as much as Is.6, or Rv.5&7, which is glory pertaining in heavens to God, as much as pointing to its business towards men, say in that case the coming of peace and good favour to man through Christ's justification and redemption, Rm.5:1
John, What you talk about the seasonal oppression, even some in the world perceive.
June A. Nadolny wrote: "... No one enjoys being considered a fanatic; if they do, there's something wrong. No one enjoys persecution. But think how little persecution we face as Christians. Isn't it because we are inconsistent? ... We Christians often wonder why we are not persecuted today. The conclusion we often reach is that we would be persecuted if we were faithful. Why doesn't the world hate us? Isn't it because we are not challenging the world's thinking at the most crucial point _ the world's concept of what Christianity is? ... ‚ÄĚ 1) Is Christmas Christian? by Michael Schneider
Something to think about
TMC No inconvenient facts, simply things develop, they do not surge from nowhere. The Xmass concept is like that.
Jim Lincoln Re. Xmass there is not so simple cut as MacArthur states between the world and the believer who is often absorved by the materialistic side of the matter.
Stevenr Tender consciences of weak believers about foods and days sustained in the transitional period from Judaism to the New covenant do not compare to a festival of obvious magnitude, plagued with obvious objections, which do not totally fit as *doubtful* issues.
"Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to *doubtful* disputations"
Thanks for your kind words, June. As you indirectly point out, for a thing to be a blessing it should not wear people out, neither cause stress, which is what Xmass turns out to be.
One can tackle the flaw of the season from many angles, yet Xmass comes as a package, and this is the difficulty. Low key Xmass, or religious Xmass, still is Christmas. Every year comes and goes and as an unconverted shop keeper was heard remarking yesterday, 'such a waste of money!', of course, besides the waste of stamina, growth, effort, energy, time and even preaching time by the distraction of the numerous ditties in the churches.
At this time of the year the average Christian ceases from being consequent with principle and common sense, being carried away by the appealing: lights, 'family time', music, wrapping and spending, etc
Yet, let's be fair, the reality of Scriptures sung or considered can be a means of rejoicing, nevertheless, there is so much in Xmass that does not proceed from the Father, but from the world, that the package does not get sanctified by this.
The answer is separation, which value the average Christian is not willing to cling to, while pastors, and mature believers entrapped by self gratification can not make their minds and lead as they should.
US Clinging to straws again and fabricating new straw men. There is a difference between the birth day and a happy birthday wish in a western style. Christ does not need happiness wished from our part; he is perfectly happy, neither good wishes for the matter of counting years All man can do is to commend honour, glory, and praise to his name, but we can never add to his happiness.
John, true, far from being miserable at this time of the year as nay-sayers, or wishing to spoil others' joy as some suggest, there is a contentment of faith by approving what is right as a norm. The abstaining from the frazel and froth of the season is the fulfilment of the command to live soberly.
Christ avoided all improper fuss, propaganda, fame, misguided frazel or recognition. How can some imagine that he would share the throne of all the season's fuss with Santa if on earth, or the sacrilege of the mass at this time? Why then we imagine he is pleased with all from heaven? Would the season be stripped of all the regaling of the flesh, how less loud hails and hossanas would resound.
The author's lack of direction is obvious when placing the Ave Maria along with "Hark, the herald angels sing" and "Gesu Bambino". Again, another effort at sanitising the season, not from the religious position, but from the musical angle.
John, the one mentioned in the post is "Historical Overview of Christmas" These other you found are preaching about the topic.
June, thanks for the excellent quotes.
Mr. Tim Pasting on Scripture doesn't change the facts you wish didn't exist about the topic. It seems you are on denial.
TQC Please, no Happy Birthday for Jesus, the one who exists from eternity and by whom all things were made. It might sound a 'nice' little dittie coming from secularised minds trying hard to sanitise a humanistic event, but this almost borders affront. Surely Christ incarnation is real, but let's not forget that he is the Son of God and in this capacity *he is one* with the Father. By allocating an age to the Son we indirectly tamper with the deity in the trinity.