Jesus Christ baptizes with the Holy Ghost and Jesus Christ through the Gospel brought to light eternal life.

2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who hath **abolished death**, and hath brought **life and immortality to light through the gospel**:

Mat 3:11 I [John the Baptist] indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

" Herein lieth the problem. What would have happened to him if he died before then."
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First of all, you are forming a scenario that did not happen—he did not die before then. Second, the people that died in the faith under the Old Covenant, which was in effect until Jesus death) were saved without regeneration because the Holy Ghost not given until after Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. Obedience to the Law of Moses was the requirement under the Old Covenant—with circumcision, the prescribed sacrifices, and other commandments, ordinances, and statutes.

" Abigail,
Do you believe that Christians can lose their salvation? Cheryl over the years that I have known her here has said yes. She and I have had fought several bouts over that issue.
What say you?"
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There are many Scriptures that state one can lose his salvation, but I know you will not accept them.

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. (2Pe 2:20)

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (2Pe 2:21)

2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

"Abigail,
Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born of the Spirit, how could he then be born-again if technically he couldn't be regenerated. "
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Of course, Nicodemus could be regenerated, but not before the Holy Ghost was outpoured. He brought spices for the body of Jesus. He was no doubt among the regenerated Jews in the Book of Acts.

" Foreknowledge? Abigail I think I would rather have spent a day with Esau than with Jacob. Jacob is shown in scripture to be a cunning, dishonest man but God still loved him. Amazing."
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Jacob has been evil spoken of by many religionists. Jacob and Esau were in Rebekah's womb
striving and God gave a prophecy to Rebekah telling her that the elder would serve the younger. The process that followed was the plan of the Lord to further establish God's covenant with Abraham. Jacob was obedient to Rebekah in all that she told him to do. Why religionists find fault with Jacob I cannot tell. Even when Jacob served Laban, he was treated shamefully by Laban but religionists speak evil of Jacob in the matter. Jacob's name was changed to Israel and he was the father of the 12 tribes. Heb 12 states that Esau was a profane person. If you would rather spend a day with Esau than with Jacob, God have mercy on your soul.

" Yet Paul said "no man can say that Jesus is the Lord but by the Holy Spirit." (1 Cor 12:3) "
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Everyone can say with their mouth that Jesus is Lord. The Scripture states that no one can say that Jesus is the Lord but by the Holy Spirit in truth, because no one can make Jesus Christ Lord of their lives except by the Holy Ghost. The indwelling Holy Ghost is "Christ in you, the hope of glory". Christ is in no one's heart that doe not permit Him to be Lord. He will have all of our being or none of our being. He will not accept a divided heart that loves the world and the things of the world—or that has friendship with the world.

"Is faith a fruit of the Spirit and can one who does not have the Holy Spirit, one who has not been born again, produce spiritual fruit?
Be honest here. Can one who is lost in sin, one who does not have the Holy Spirit produce spiritual fruit."
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Your supposition is wrong.

When Jesus was preaching the Gospel to the multitudes during His ministry, He commanded them to have faith. The Holy Ghost had not been given, therefore they were not regenerated. He rebuked and upbraided them many times because of their lack of faith. He healed them according to their faith.

Faith that is a fruit of the Spirit is different from the faith that is given to every man. Rom 12:3 states that God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

"That is a flat out lie JD. There is only one regeneration, and that is the renewing of the Holy Spirit. You can only be born-again once, not like the Arminians like Abigail and the other Cheryl who believe that you can lose your salvation and have to be saved again and again. Until then one who does not have the Spirit of Chist cannot produce fruits of the Spirit, which includes faith.
Saving faith is not prodced by the freewill."
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That is a flat out lie, DB. Cheryl and Abigail do not believe that you have to be saved again and again. You Calvinists are full of lies and false accusations against all that do not believe your doctrine. We are saved and stay in a saved condition by confessing and repenting of our sins as Scripture states..

1Jo 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

" Abigail,
You said "Faith is believing the Word of God and acting on it."
Wrong, Faith is believing the Word of God alone. Acting on it is pretending to have faith.
Why don't you believe Romans 3:20"
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Why is Romans 3:20 the only Scripture in the bible you believe? Your whole theological system is based on Romans 3:20!!

You manipulate all other Scriptures to agree with Romans 3:20 instead of harmonizing the Scriputres so that Romans 3:20 is rightly interpreted.

" If you hold that line Abigail how do you deal with "Jacob I loved Esau I hated"?”
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Foreknowledge. God knew Esau was a profane person (Heb 12:16) and his descendants would be enemies of the Saints. God is a jealous God and He is angry with the wicked every day.

Psa 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry [with the wicked] every day.

"Abigail you have not read 2Peter3:9 in context. Yes all of the letters were written to believers and they must be read with that fact in mind. When Peter says that "God is longsuffering to uswards, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" He is speaking to the believers about "us" not willing that any of us should perish, and that the full numbers of "us" believers should come to repentance. It's plain English."
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You are messing with your theology on that one. If God's desire is for all to come to repentance, you're admitting that you can lose your salvation—or—if it states that that it is His will for the elect to come to repentance, it is redundant, because He has chosen them before the foundation of the world, and they are saved without regard to their own merits.

It is God's will that none should perish, but that all humanity should come to repentance. What a wonderful and merciful God who loves all His creatures. Not a sparrow falls without His caring, and how much more does He care for the lost world of humanity that Jesus died on the cross to save.

"Abigail,
How do you define faith?
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The bible states that faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen. Faith is believing the Word of God and acting on it. Faith is inward assurance of God's trustworthiness and knowledge that what He has stated He will perform. Faith is the ingredient that opens the door to communion with God. Faith pleases God and brings answers to prayers. Faith is the mainspring of salvation. Faith believes the Word of God and adheres to its tenets. Faith is placing all your confidence and trust in God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Without faith it is impossible to please God, for he that cometh to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him.

" Belgic Confession (1561), Art.24 con'd
"These works, as they proceed from the good root of faith, are good and acceptable in the sight of God, forasmuch as they are all sanctified by His grace. Nevertheless they are of no account towards our justification, for it is by faith in Christ that we are justified, even before we do good works; otherwise they could not be good works, any more than the fruit of a tree can be good before the tree itself is good."
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Romans 4:5

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The hearers of the law are not justified before God, but the doers of the law (Rom 2:13) We are justified by grace (Rom 3:24), by faith (Rom 5:1), by works (Rom 2:13; Jam 2:24), by our words (Matt 12:37)—all of these work by the Spirit of God unto salvation.

Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Sin is transgression of the Law. We are not under the law but under grace.
Rom 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

"Last time I read my Bible, when Jesus looked on the multitude he was not filled with fury, but rather compassion. So I think the caricature that you loathe may be closer to the truth than what you want to admit.
The sovereignty of God does not annull his compassion and his earnestness to see people saved. If your theology allows you to make such a dichotomy, then you may have an incorrect perception of what sovereignty really is.
If we are going to brag about how much God is sovereign, why not allow him to trully be sovereign by accepting only what the Bible states rather than these imaginations that we think to be so brilliant."
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Jesus mourned and wept for the souls of humanity.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

There it is again—free will of the people—"ye would not"? They resisted the Savior of their souls—the God of their salvation.

"Our works in our lives, are witness to others if we are in Christ. To those who are perishing the Christian smells of the fragrance of death, to those who are made alive in Christ, there we are a beautiful fragrant aroma of life. We are saved by grace through faith, that no man may boast. Yet we are either a slave to sin or a slave of righteousness. We either will be working works of death in speech and in deed, or we are speaking and practicing the life of Christ.
"a tree is known by its fruit"
Matthew 12:33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit."
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A sweet perfume, Jessica!! Amen!!

" This may seem like a minor difference of opinion but it drastically alters one's perception of God. One of the two camps are worshipping a false god in transgression of the first commandment. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will not forgive this sin. "
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Wrong Lurker. You cannot prove your stand by any Scripture in the Bible. It has been a centuries long debate by scholars from every school of thought.

It is a very serious matter to try to overthrow the faith of the holy saints that have repented of their sins, been washed in the blood of the Lamb, and are living a regenerated life by the indwelling Spirit of God—- casting them out as evil.

A look at the life of the Reformers should tell you something.

Wayne M wrote

"And a certain woman named Lydia…whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul." Acts 16:14
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No man can come to the Christ except the Father draws Him. God opened Lydia's heart—but she had the choice to either accept or reject. God gives a new heart to every repentant sinner and gives them eternal life.

" Lurker,
Out of all due respect, I believe that you are being quite disingeneous.
If your argument was merely, that \"world\" may have more than one meaning, then I doubt anyone here would disagree. All one has to do is look up the word in the dictionary and see at the multiple entries.
But that\'s not what you are trying to state. What you are trying to state is that \"world\" equals the elect or a specific group of people. That, my friend is impossible unless you qualify it with an adjective. And even then you are stepping into a figurative meaning of a word.
The passage you quoted is nothing more than a common use of a figurative element called a hyperbole. We use that all the time:…Do you actually think that they are stating that the whole \"elect\" are going after him? Whether or not you accept one of the most common examples of hyperbole that is used both in Scripture and in the world today, one thing is for certain....
\"World\" never has and never will mean the \"elect.\..."
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Amen to your excellent Post.

" Wrong Abigail. TULIP is only an acronym for the five points of Calvinism. You need to study more to find out what Calvinist churches believe instead of making false assumptions."
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I know exactly what Calvinist churches teach. Besides the fallacies of the WCF, I have read the posts here on SA.

" My tounge is in cheek here, but why in the world would anyone who did not believe in God bother with Sunday school? I do believe and I think it's still a pain in the neck to get out of bed and go; if I were athiest I would sleep in. Another point, see how sticky the atheist argument gets: we choose our own morals, okay then every jail and prison should be torn down and every prisoner released."
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Don't most modern day Christians choose their own morals? Name which Commandment they do not break--or which of Jesus Christ's Words they adhere to.

They are like the Israelites of the OT that went astray from God and did what was right in their own eyes—forsaking the laws, statutes and commandments of God.

" Here we go again!
What is faith?
It is our reliance and obedience in an object.
Now when we say that "we have in Faith in Yahshua Messiah" we place our reliance and obedience in Him. Therefore in order for us to be obedient to Yahshua, we have works. Yes, works without faith are dead. But, there is a degree of works contained within our faith.
For those of us that have to work for a living. We put our Faith in our employeer, that we will receive a paycheck. But in order for us to receive that paycheck, we must show a type of works. No work, no pay! No work for the Gospel of Yahshua Messiah, no eternal life!"
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Amen!! Good Post!!

" Again, the Pentecostal sect is doing so much damage to the Christian church it is unprecedented in History...Most pentecostals have no interest in faithfully following the Scriptures, because the entire premise behind their fundamental belief system is that works is the basis of their salvation. They are one of the few sects that believe that those who are actually saved can demonstrate this by speaking in unknown tonuges, performing miracles and healings and engaging in other signs.
Unfortunately, unlawful divorce as has been published about these Pentecostal icons in America, Randy and Paula White…"
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Few churches do not endorse divorce.

Not only the Pentecostals but also the churches in general of today are apostatized. They have all drifted into modernism and lost the true meaning of the Word of God and Holiness. Rom 6:22 tells us that we are made free from sin and have become servants to God, having our fruit unto holiness the end is everlasting life. We are to put off the old Adam nature and put on Christ which is created in righteousness and true holiness, because God has not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: