Do you really believe that God gives everyone "a chance" to get right with him?
1 Tim 2: 3Â For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4Â Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5Â For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6Â Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
"ALL men to be saved" " Who gave himself a random for ALL" I must have a dodgy bible Praise the Lord
Hello again, you guys still at it, didn't think this would end soon , never does, John UK,..I don't want to sound rude or ignorant but could you show me examples where and how God turns sinners around, so they willingly hate their sins I know he calls, he says come, and he draws, could anyone here tell me HOW he calls,draws etc oh and don't say by the Holy Spirit, der.. Thanks Praise the Lord
Dave from oz writes: Again you still can't answer the obvious. God says he chose you, but you say God is wrong! You say you decided to choose him?
Really really, that's what you read, we maintain that Gd chooses All He choose us from the beginning, but not all that He choose will choose Him, See note by John UK We who believe and choose him become children of obedience Bye now I'm off to work, some of us must still workðŸ˜€ Again hope to see you in the air Praise the Lord
From the bible from the bible oh it's in the bible... Oh ok I believe you now, funny you practically never quote the bible and when you do you take it out of context, Oh well it is what it is See you in the air and we'll continue then So you soon brothers, Praise the Lord
Dave from oz writes: Our "free will" Has it's bias changed upon regeneration by the Holy Spirit. Our bias to sin is replaced with a bias to please God. Ok so we're in agreement , you do believe in freewill, Praise the Lord my work here is done
John from Uk writes Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved! Praise God!
There is in the atonement a sufficiency to save a whole world of sinners, if only they would come to Christ. Ah, but they won't come, they are not willing, they shake the fist at God and will not humble themselves before him, saying, "God have mercy on me, a sinner."
Because they don't want to, they like their sins.
Why don't they want to? Why do they like their sins?
Well finally now we're in agreement , so long brothers continue the good fight of faith Praise the Lord
Lurker writes Didn't say if your freewill was taken away...... I said if your presumed ability to choose God was proven false. Oh then that was by some other lurker an hour ago who said the exact thing you say you did not say, Scroll down its there in black n white Yet we are the liars!!! Praise the Lord
Dave writes Sorry but I find most who believe the pride thingy way to salvation, will become angry when they can't replace their idea with God's word, Wow read your last comments Bro! You call me a liar, without any explanation just another opinion from Dave You say that I'm carnally minded, Hmmm it seems to me you be the one getting angry here Dave, careful of your own words ,that wouldn't be pride and arrogance raising its ugly little head would it, Your evidence Dave is your opinion You hear what you want and then say you have no freewill, that's just amazing. Praise the Lord
Never once Dave did J4j or I claim we are saved by our works or merits , you can accuse us of that as much as you like .. All we say is what scripture says God chooses allllllll but not all will choose him, Salvation is of God alone, ..to those that believe.. Choose this day whom you will serve, And Lurker if my freewill is taken away and proven false I have nothing, you may be right but for one fact, I have freewill and always will have, I can choose or reject, hmmm look up the word freewill in your word search, you'll see it exists and so does mine, praise God I'm not like some who believe they were so special they are the elect,(oh and they always seem to be in the elect never out of it, funny that) and others are elected to Hell from the beginning Praise the Lord
Oooooh look Kev, "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners" not believers. Ummmmm oh ok all sinners are saved, no point in believing , yep according to John you just have to be a sinner and Christ will save you , nope no repenting, no believing ,no being born again, no nothing, stop your preaching ,stop your witnessing your a sinner Christ died for you your good to go. Wait wait what's that next verse say 1 Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Them which should believe, oh just throw that out not needed of course . He obtained mercy, oh I suppose everyone just obtains mercy ,you know cos were all sinners Prov 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. Yep no need for any of that now, Praise the Lord
CALVANISM is FATALISM, it removes you from any personal responsibility and that greatly appeals to the flesh. A carnal CHRISTIAN who's will is ruled by his flesh will look for doctrines and teachers that teach things that give license to the flesh and remove them from any responsibility how they conduct their life. Sad that you follow the teaching of a man that put to death those that disagreed with his doctrine. Very unchristlike!
T" Total depravity and Total inability....teaching man is so totally depraved that he is incapable of Repenting or believing the gospel, therefore God chooses who he will save and only those he saves can then believe. "Who then shall be saved, He, Gods sovereign will decides and nothing else" Calvins institutes 3-23 page 10 Yet Mark 16: 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
"U" Unconditional Election...that God elects or chooses certain people to go to heaven and has nothing to do with God fore knowing if such people choose to believe in Christ, "The unsaved and the elect alike are appointed to be so by the secret council of Gods will" Calvin institutes 2-22 page 11 Yet 1 Timothy 2: 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
L" Limited atonement....the blood of Jesus Christ was shed only for the elect not for the non elect Yet Hebrews 2: 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 2 Peter 3: 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
"I" Irresistible grace....that if a person was one of the elect for salvation, when God is ready for that person to become a christian, the person would come to CHRIST not by choice, but by Gods decree, since they cannot resist the grace of God. Yet Isaiah 30: 15 For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not. Acts 7: 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost
Perseverance of the saints....that a person of the elect and saved will automatically persevere unto the end and never lose their salvation. Yet Hebrews 6: 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Fletcher himself summarized his theological position: "The error of rigid Calvinists centers in the denial of that evangelical liberty, whereby all men, under various dispensations of grace, may without necessity choose life...And the error of rigid Arminians consists in not paying a cheerful homage to redeeming grace, for all the liberty and power which we have to choose life, and to work righteousness since the fall...To avoid these two extremes, we need only follow the Scripture-doctrine of free-will restored and assisted by free-grace." Praise the Lord
Your understanding of Grace was what I expected, only missing the words unmerited favour. All based on mans worldly interpretation
I was going to tell you spiritual people about grace and how you all miss what is clearly before your eyes, filled with what you think is the Holy Ghost but is nothing more than mans weak intellect and emotion.
You are saved by GRACE (through faith) Your are saved by JESUS (when you believe) GRACE is the gift of God JESUS is the gift of God
John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
He is the Truth you believe that because he told you But you don't believe he is Grace even though His Spirit reveals it to you.
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Take a guess who not what that is? Let them that have eyes see..... Search the scriptures ,study and see everywhere, everywhere that grace is the word and the word is Jesus Praise the Lord
Dave from oz writes: Faith can't, according to scripture come about, by Our will upon hearing the gospel, it comes by the Will of God, so says the word of God. No bible ref of course. Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Dave from oz writes: Again you're confusing the responsibility of the believer with salvation Not me...God 2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.
1 Peter 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: Praise the Lord
John from UK You keep asking me what certain words mean to me, like dead in sins, quickened and study, and I believe I answered them fully and truly for you did not refute my answers, now I have one for you, Dave and any other professed Calvanist, how do you understand the word Grace and what does it mean to you, with your answers I believe we can resolve this debate once and for all. Praise the Lord
Can you sin your grace away? Math 5:13---7:13,14,21,23---10:22---13:3-9,11,19-23,36---24:13,48-51---25:1-13,14-30 Mark 4:13-20 Luke 1:50---3:7-9---6:46-49---9:23---11:33-35---12:36-46---13:6-9---14:34-35---15:11-24 John 3:36---6:66-71---8:31,47---10:27,28---14:23---18:37 Acts 8:13-20---20:28-31 Rom 6:6,7,11,16---8:1,4,6,8,9,12,13---11:18-23 1 Cor 9:27---10:6-12---15:1,2 2 Cor 6:1---13:5 Gal 1:2,6-9---2:17,18---5:1,4---gal 3:1-3+5:7+rev2:4---6:7-9 Eph 2:8 Phlp 3:12-14 Col 1:21-23---2:6-8 1 Thess 2:12---3:13---5:21-23 2 Thess 2:1-3 1 Tim 1:18-20---4:1,2 2 Tim 2:11,12,13 Titus 3:8-11 Phm 1:24+(2 Tim 4:10) Hebrews 3:6,12-14,15-19---4:1,11---6:4-6,11-15---10:23,26,27,29,31,35-39---12:15-17,23-25 James 1:14-16---5:19,20 1 Pet 1:9---4:16-18---5:8,9 2 Pet 1:8-10---2:1-3,15,18-21,22---3:13,14,17 1 John 1:9---2:3,4,19 2 John 8 3 John 9-11 Jude 5 Rev 2&3 And Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free Praise the Lord
It is Gods will that ALL should repent and that none should perish .as is clear to those who will see 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But will all do Gods will and repent..No Will some perish against Gods will..Yes Why? Because of free will which God will not TrumpðŸ¤” You know what I find interesting, when people calling themselves Christians argue against with their opinions and ideas taught by men. When they are reproved by scripture and never answer the rebuke yet change the subject The new question was can you lose your salvation? You say the whole New Testament is on your side. Nice claim yet not even one verse is provided! Try this one, Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God Where are you when you have departed from God because of unbelief? Saved? Like King Saul or Demae! Read Rev 2&3 again. I will give you scripture for every book I the NT, so start refuting Praise the Lord