Pikestaff wrote: Precisely!!! That is why Faith - IS the gift of God. Eph 2:8. In the Reformed camp, the order of salvation is 1) election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification. (Rom 8:29-30)
Pikestaff, I have no problem with the ordo salutis. however to conclude that "faith" is THE gift of God in Eph. 2:8 is subjective at best. The grammatical structure of the verse refutes your argument in that the Greek words for "faith" and "grace" are in the feminine gender and the pronoun "it" is in the neuter gender. According to grammatical rules, the pronoun must correspond with its antecedent in number as well as in gender.
Subsequently, according to Galatians 5:22, faith is listed as a fruit of the Holy Spirit and is produced and generated by the Holy Spirit. It is not produced as a work of the flesh in regard to faith in the spiritual realm.
In other words, an unregenerate man does not have saving faith because he is not born of the Spirit. He may have faith in worldly things, but not in the things of God. The things of God are foolishness unto him, but to him that is born of God, they are understood.
Mike wrote: Actually, salvation is THE gift of God. But weve been through this before.
Pikestaff wrote: Sorry Mike, I have to say you are wrong. Faith is the gift of God which includes the ability to overcome sin.
How do you justify your response in light of Romans 6:23 which says "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Salvation begins with the sovereign will and purpose of God. According to His good pleasure He quickens and regenerates those whom He had chosen before the foundation of the world. He sent His only begotten Son to fulfill the law of righteousness to redeem them from their bondage of sin and death. He purchased their salvation to the shedding of His precious blood on the cross of Calvary. They are regenerated and the chains of sin have been loosed by the power of God to set them free. Gd restored their ability to flee to him in repentance and faith to the salvation of their souls.
Assurance is not founded on the premise of what you did for God, but in what He did for you.
As long as parents don't complain of the enormously high insurance rates on youthful drivers. They come into the office wanting their 16 insured on his new high powered 2009 Mustang or 4WD Dodge Ram Extended Cab Diesel Pickup and go over the edge when they find out how much the premuims are. Based on the driving records and habits of some of these youthful drivers, one can understand WHY they have to pay so much. I was 17 when I learned to drive and it was in a 1960 Chevrolet Impala and a 1970 Dodge Dart.
coora wrote: Could someone please explain to me why Gal 2:16 reads "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ....." in the AV but in the ESV ".... but through faith in Jesus Christ....." These seem to say different things. In the AV the faith is Christ's given to us for justification, but in the ESV it is our faith that we exercise.
Good points coora. In fact it is even mentioned twice in verse 16. "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by *** the faith of Jesus Christ***, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by *** the faith of Christ,*** and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
It was the faith of Christ and his righteousness, it was his merits and his merits alone whereby we could be declared righteous. Modern translators render it as if we had something to do to merit our own justification. I will be doing a Greek study later this morning on that passage. There seems to be some articles that would validate my porision.
What I find interesting is that the Wycliffe Translation, Bishop's Bible and the Geneva Bible all have it translated as "Holy thing". Why is the KJV the only one being singled out?
Perhaps the translators weren't as scholarly as some here. Instead of picking it apart, read it for what it says, believe in what it says and practice what it says. The KJV has stood the test of time for 4 centuries and God has used this translation in a mighty and powerful way since the reformation. The only reformation taking place with the modern versions is apostacy and ecumenicism.
Girl wrote: I agree with women wearing hats and/or covering in church, but I don't agree that it's to show their 'subjection to men'. It is to show they are under the authority AND protetion of either their father or thier husband, and certainly not ALL MEN as is implied here. Women may be subject to A man, but not ALL men, otherwise we would end up like the catholics, who teach their women that whatever the priest says for you to do must be right, and you cannot do wrong in doing it. This opens a very dangerous door, to my mind.
Girl from Australia,
You made a very excellent point. The scripture teaches that the wives are to be under the authority of THEIR OWN husbands, not all men in general just as husbands are to LOVE THEIR OWN wives. Your first and foremost authority as well as the men is to God himself and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Head of the church.
I have found that most fundamentalist men, baptist in particular, treat ALL women like they are second rate and should submit to ALL men, not just their own husbands.
I speak as a man and say that that attitude is a disgrace to biblical Christianity and is a mockery to the command of our Lord Jesus Christ.