Stevenr wrote: If you really think about it, there are no major corporations:shopping venues out there that are Christian in their ideology or practice. I hear people mention boycotting cell phone makers and shoe makers and every other thing you can think of, but in the end if you do that it will not have any impact on themâ€” honestly, if you gathered every saved individual in the world together it would still not equivilate enough pressure on those corporations to changeâ€¦ At some point we are going to have to understand that we are in the world, not of the worldâ€¦ and the world is never going to conform to us. .... Just saying
Excellent comment, good to see you posting brother.
According to a site that rates companies on their support of LBQT issues, most companies that have made what you own, as well as the places you shop and services you use are recipients of a100% score. (Obviously companies like Chik-fil-a and Hobby Lobby didnâ€™t score very good)
In I Corinthians 8 Paul didnâ€™t say buying the discounted meat was wrong because it supported idol worshipers. He only warned of causing a weaker brother to stumble
In reading through the comments I would say to characterize dear sister ladybug as a feminist or an Arminian is not accurate and a retraction of such thoughts in an appropriate manner would be advised.
Please note this is what happens when you worship Calvinism and not God. So I am not speaking against all who follow and adhere to its doctrines
DD speaks of those he claims are lost (his premise is wrong about those of whom he speaks) with disdain and glories in their destruction not wishing their deliverance. God has no delight in the death of the wicked but that they turn from their wickedness and live, DD delights in their deserved eternal destruction. What caused tears in the eyes of Paul and caused him to even wish himself to be accursed from Christ finds a heart of stone in DD. There will be a time in eternity when we will rejoice in Godâ€™s righteous judgment of those who know not God. In our time here below we should sow in tears that by Godâ€™s grace, Who alone can give the increase, we can reap in joy.
Note the difference between what the Bible says and DD's attitude (II Timothy 2)
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will
Mike wrote: Sadly US, when the very words of the written Word are chopped up, this sort of thing happens. Evidence that those things spoken of in Galatians 5:22,23 is missing, while thinking they do God service.
Sad indeed. I am not saying the problem is Calvinism or the writings of the Canons of Dordt, but with the one who makes them their god and uses it as an excuse to act in a very uncharitable manner and even worse setting themselves up as judge and jury of the eternal destiny of men's souls.
Yet I realize that apart from the grace of God, that person would be me.
Well, I will surely be blistered in a response. But as Spurgeon once said,
If any man thinks ill of you, do not be angry with him, for you are worse than he thinks you to be.
That is surely true of me.
God bless you brother Mike, again, glad to see you back.
This is what happens folks when you worship Calvinism and the Canons of Dort instead of the Lord God of the Bible. You gloss over your clear violation of the first commandment and find fault with others to cover up your hypocrisy.
DD wrote: ...---but they no clue. John UK, BMcC, Mike of New York, US, and the endless parade of well educated people who persecute Christ by their lies.
Sad to see such a bitter spirit displayed here on SA. There is no need for such contenous sayings and false accusations.
Don't fool yourself into thinking you are being valiant for the truth, you obviously are ignoring direct Bible teaching (not referring to atonement debate) The meekness required in addressing others (II Timothy 2:25) commanded in Scripture is lacking DD. The fact that you are demonstrating no fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22.23)may be an indication of the need for a personal checkup. (2 Peter 1:10)
I leave you with a Bible verse for your consideration
ladybug wrote: I already stated my point ... 'progressive sanctification'. You misconstrued my original thoughts, nitpicked them, then ran with it. Works based religionists miss the truth of grace, miss the fact of resting in Christ, depending on Him for all things, etc. Done with you US
Thanks for your time, I took what you said at face value, my apologies if I didn't catch what you were really trying to say.
DD, have no clue what a "super righteousness" would be. Agree with Ryle that it is a tough question to answer in such limited space. I will let his chapter 3 be my response. Thanks
ladybug wrote: "I am the vine, ye the branches; he who is remaining in me, and I in him, this one doth bear much fruit, because apart from me ye are not able to do anything" - Christ isn't vague here is He? All works based religion cannot grasp this, they cannot rest on Him because they are forever 'working' to do this, that, the other. If the foundations aren't right, nothing else will be thereafter.... To those for whom this applies- "self-righteousness is the greatest abomination there is" - Scott Price, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wkLv75yUy8
I haven't said anything different from what you just posted (more than willing to take it back if you can show that I did), so lets turn your question to you, So what exactly is your argument ladybug? What are you arguing against or for?
ladybug wrote: Here is what I DID actually say, " No plan or place for sanctification - whose sanctification? your own or Christs? For the record, no one 'grows' in holiness, we will never be holier tomorrow than today because it isn't our holiness that God accepts, we have none of our own-" You simply added to my own words and put your 'spin' on them. Does any sinner possess holiness apart from Christ? Are you holier today than yesterday US? Yes or no? It would seem you believe in 'progressive sanctification'?
Do you think you will reach the point of sinless perfection?
ladybug wrote: So what exactly is your argument US? What are you arguing against or for? No one stated we should not pursue walking worthy, no one can do so without continual mercy from God. From Heb.12:14, holiness - consecration, sanctification.
Do you obey perfectly, every waking moment?
You stated (7/6/19 9:44 PM) one cannot make any progress in Sanctification or holiness. My point is yes you can and as you just clearly stated yes you are expected to.
My personal walk with God has no effect on the truths of Scripture and is irrelevant to this discussion. I also know you know what my answer would be so not sure why you brought it up?
No one can produce holiness (Job 14:4; Jeremiah 13:23)
I stand accepted in the Beloved on no merit of my own, now or ever.
I never stated,â€śyou can conjure holiness by your own effortsâ€ť
I clearly stated in my post of 7/7/19 4:21 pm that the work of sanctification in the heart and life of the believer is done by Divine assistance.
We see in I Cor. 1:2 that statement â€śthem that are sanctified. Which is written in the Perfect tense (The perfect tense... describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated) and the Passive voice (which represents the subject as being the recipient of the action.)
There is also I Thessalonians 5:23 written in the inceptive aorist tense which speaks of an action having begun at a certain point and the active voice which to cut to the point means God is currently santicifying you (believers) wholly (complete in all respects) This prayer would be meaningless if sanctification always referred to a completed work done by our Lord at salvation .
The word perfecting in II Corinthians 7:1 and pursue (follow). In Hebrews 12:14 are both present tense (continuous), active voice (the subject doing the action)
Dear sister ladybug, I am not going to defend against what I didn't say.
It doesn't matter how many commentators you bring up. None, by the way, have contradicted what I said. You stated there is no such thing as growth in holiness of life, the Bible says otherwise and we agree no one can say that anything is done without the help of God. (I Corinthians 4:7; James 1:17; John 15:5)
Note Paul stated in Philippians 2 that the believer was to work out their salvation with fear and trembling.Â Â The next verse reminds that is is only done by the help of God as it states that it is God that works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.Mortification, love for God, love for His Word, the fruits of the Spirit, etc. are all graces in which we can by Godâ€™s help alone see progress (see I John 2 where he addresses children, young men, and fathers) Without Him we can do nothing but I can do all things through Christ that strengthens me.Â Â Â Note the apostle said in I Corinthians 15, "I labored more abundantly",Â Â but followed it up with "yet not I but the grace of God which was with me."
The command was not ye are holy as I am holy but be ye holy as I am holy.
Our acceptance is based upon the fact that we are made acceptable in the Beloved,(nothing in my hands I bring simply to Thy cross I cling, not the labor of my hands) yet our personal sanctification demands we fight, strive, pray, press on, mortify,Â Â bring into subjection,Â Â study, (all Biblical terms) etc. by the grace of God for His glory.
My apologies if I am misrepresenting what you are stating I can only go by what you posted.
ladybug wrote: For the record, no one 'grows' in holiness, we will never be holier tomorrow than today because it isn't our holiness that God accepts, we have none of our own- increase in understanding and growth in the believer? - again, that wasn't stated either.- Or is that left up to man to work out of his own accord?" - who said such a thing? "Apart from me you can do nothing"
Please note dear sister Ladybug,
â€śHaving therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.â€ť
From the Blue Letter Bible the word "perfecting" in the Greek is a verb that has the following tense, voice, mood Present active participle
In a Greek verb where the voice is Active, The active voice represents the subject as the doer or performer of the action. e.g., in the sentence, "The boy hit the ball," the boy performs the action.
We are command to followâ€”again active voiceâ€” (pursue) holiness in Hebrews 12. if the only personal holiness is due to our standing in Christ, then neither of these verses makes any sense.
(it will be nice to hold response until 2nd half is posted)
I would like to share my thoughts. This just the opinion of one of our Lordâ€™s unworthy servants, so you can take it or leave it.
It 2 or 3 threads we have had over 600 comments about pretty much the same subject. I donâ€™t think any can say that their side has not been well stated or represented. The truth has definitely been put forth and it would be up to the readers to determine which version lines up with the overall teaching of Scripture.
What you havenâ€™t seen is a light bulb go off and some one say, Oh I see that now, or anyone changing from one position to the other. Sadly there have been many harsh words between the two sides.
Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. (Rhymes with fears)
Here we have seen the same spelling but tears rhymes with fares.
If brethren err from the truth, correction should be done in love and humility
I know I need the grace of God to grant me much needed improvement in sharing my posts here on SA.
I sincerely would love to see both sides lay down arms and move on, however I am not a moderator or think that my opinion should sway any into the direction they would go. Just pondering out loud.
Ladybug, I realized after I posted my previous comment I meant â€śaboutâ€ť instead of â€śtoâ€ť and figured someone would catch me on it. So, thanks for the gracious correction. I believe I have made my case Biblically and will say we donâ€™t see this one eye to eye.
So ladybug is the end of chapter 2 written about believers? Are verses 3&4 in chapter 3 written about believers? Note he alternated between talking about believers and unbelievers. Verse divisions are not inspired. I have to think it means what it says and doesnâ€™t teach universal atonement because of it.