jpw wrote: Rufus -- I hesitate, since writing out a long list below, the words of Christ did not sway you. ...
I love the scriptures you quote but they do not affirm the references to the Kingdom of God as being eternal. The Kingdom of God is 1000 years...it is the millennium, not eternity. I would be swayed if there were scripture to the contrary, 'tis scripture that swayed me to my current position.
SteveR wrote: Samson of course, but dont hold your breath for the others I will add the ignored Scripture implying that Saul didnt succeed in even killing himself..he needed an Amalekite 2 Samuel 1:7 And when he looked behind him, he saw me, and called unto me. And I answered, Here am I. 2 Samuel 1:8 And he said unto me, Who art thou? And I answered him, I am an Amalekite. 2 Samuel 1:9 He said unto me again, Stand, I pray thee, upon me, and slay me: for anguish is come upon me, because my life is yet whole in me. 2 Samuel 1:10 So I stood upon him, and slew him,
Jim Lincoln wrote: Well, Refus, since he seems to be as big as ignoramus, as this fellow [URL=http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/04/bush-terrible-president-also-not-a-smart-man.html#]]]Bush: Terrible President, Also Not a Smart Man[/URL], and just as much in bed with big oil, and big business as Baby-face Bush was. Guess what, I don't have any use for him. You Texans can have him, Rufus, if he tries any funny business like running for President again, he'll fall on his face again. However, I do agree with Kat.
I am not a supporter of Rick Perry nor the Bush family but the way you speak of the leaders God has put in authority over us is improper. Recall too the primary reason Rick Perry "fell on his face" was due to the one you call a "kook" making him look bad. The stronger your arguments, the less need there is for hyperbole, invective and ad hominems.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: Great point! However it was Samuel that said you will be with me not the Lord. I am not making an excuse for Saul or even trying to say suicide is acceptable, just agreeing with others that it is not a sin that automatically condemns one to an eternity in the lake of fire.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: What saith the Scriptures. Does anyone on this board believe that Samuel is not in heaven? Do we all agree that Saul committed suicide? I Samuel 28:19 (NKJV)"Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons WILL BE WITH ME. The Lord will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.‚ÄĚ
Whether Saul is in Heaven or Hell can not be concluded by 1 Samuel 28:19 for the Lord can meet a child in either locale.
Psalms 139:8 - If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
I would evaluate Saul as eternally saved but a loser of two kingdoms.
jpw wrote: Rufus -- I am most assured that reading the gospels would remedy your limited perspective of the Kingdom of God. I did a search at blueletterbible on "Kingdom of God". Jesus did not mince words on this subject. It was his constant mode of teaching his coming, his atonement and salvation -- his healings, miracles, and deliveries, his parables on eternal life were based on this... ...
JPW, I have provided you verses indicating why I believe the Kingdom of God/Kingdom of Heaven to be within time. Are you unable to provide something similar for arguing that it is eternal?
Christopher000 wrote: I will accept whatever truth were to unfold because whatever God says, goes, but...I hope Rufus is right concerning the fate of suicides. Just difficult to accept that suicide, no matter how wrong, cancels out the fact that someone was born again and tried real hard after their conversion. So, someone can live their entire life, loving God, witnessing, doing right, and doing the best they can to live a Christ-like life, but in the end, in a moment of extreme weakness and hopelessness, for whatever reason, they make the terrible decision to exit early, they are sent to hell for eternity? This isn't my dad, obviously, but apply it to whoever...maybe yourself...your Pastor...whoever.
Hell is temporal, not eternal.
Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
just enough time wrote: (a.) Live an entire life of faith in Christ and repentance and you'll be saved. (b.) When (self) murder by bullet is your last act, there's no conceivable time in your life's journey to repent (of this "shall not enter the kingdom of heaven" category of sins) before you die. Thus, how does a gunshot suicide not damn you?
It does not damn a believer eternally for the blood is sufficient to cover all and this is a gift of God. However, the unrighteous will not receive the reward of inheriting the kingdom of God (1000 year millenial reign of Christ) and an unrepentant murderer disqualifies himself from this inheritance.
Galatians 5:21 - Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
SteveR wrote: Im trying to say that I dont understand todays dispensational secular response to the Israeli spiritual problem Lisa. My dispensational friends here say they pray for Israeli salvation, but their hands write letters to Congress to send them more military aid. They dont write letters to their synods to send more missionaries or Bibles to Israel. My friends sigh when Palestinians receive undeserved food aid, yet ignore the lack of Israelis receiving Christ. Their lips claim they are helping, yet each day more and more Jews are dying without faith. To me it looks like they are holding their hands on the way to perdition for their own selfish interests not the Jews who need salvation. Is that a way to treat a friend? Gods special people? btw Do you want to know the major crime was of ancient Syria of Isaiah 17? helping Israel(northern kingdom) to sin against God.
Observer wrote: No one is condoning suicide silly! The question is does suicide in and of itself mean that the person was NOT saved? There are sins of omission as well as sins of commission. Would a person equally end up in hell with sins of omission? What about sins of ignorance. Stuff that we all do that we don't even recognize as sin? What makes suicide the unforgivable sin? The trolls on this site promulgating the false teaching of the RCC should just keep their shameless ignorant mouths shut. Christopher000 Truth be told we all struggle on a daily basis with the old self and with besetting sins. This is the experience of every genuine child of God. Josephus is right that some have greater struggles. But remember 1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
If the individual believed on Jesus Christ for the remission of sins he will be raised up on the last day regardless of his deeds. If he commits murder and does not repent of it prior to judgment, he will not partake of the first resurrection.
Jim Lincoln wrote: I was going to criticize Gov. Perry for doing something that would appeal to Texas voters, since he may have ambitions to hold onto his present office or go after another office. However, I see he was in the Boy Scouts and as such he does have a good reason to speak out, and I would hope that he realizes that [URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=92807123612]]]The Bible Says Homosexuality is Sin[/URL]. Not, that I think that Gov. Perry's knowledge is all that great.
So you were going to criticize him, couldn't find anything to criticize him for and then criticized him anyway?
jpw wrote: Rufus, the biblical teaching of the Kingdom of God is repeated ad naseum by Jesus Christ himself. His teaching was always consistent, always related to the gospel and eternal life. I would be glad to continue on with the scriptures, the Messiah just couldn't stop talking about the Kingdom of God, and that was that He reigns forever and can win your heart and redeem your soul...
Amen. The book of Matthew is much about Jesus teaching on the Kingdom. Now as it pertains to defining the length of the Kingdom of God/Kingdom of Heaven, I have presented to you Revelation 20. What verses would you point to suggesting the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Heaven referring to that which is eternal?
2¬†Timothy 2:12 - If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Rev 20:4b ... and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
jpw wrote: I see on this thread a great mishandling of the Kingdom of God, replacing the eternal gospel and the constant witness of Christ for a temporary, passing 1000 years with no biblical backing....
A kingdom is a place where kings reign. The Biblical backing for this age is presented in Revelation 20. It is an age described as being 1000 years long and a thousand means a thousand. After the 1000 years is up, the devil and death is cast into the Lake of Fire and the eternal age will begin.
Observer wrote: Is it charity to delude, to teach falsely so that someone becomes ensnared, to promote the cause of the Whore etc? If ya think SteveR is saved, then I'd say you know little. But then again you're a Sandemanian and that's just one of your errors. You might like meeley mouthed responses, but in the days in which we live (and if you don't know the signs of the times, then I pity you) genuine Christians need to a call a spade a spade. This is the kindest, the most charitable course of action. Sure it may offend some, but I ain't PC on the issue of offending if it might bring some to their senses. This board is a Christian board, and so we expect people posting to make Biblical responses. You'd prefer we let errorists off the hook with soft responses? Get some spine and Man up!
I wasn't taking sides brother. I'm off to go find out what a Sandemanian is. Grace and peace to ya.
Observe if you will the exchange between Observer and SteveR. I'm not going to take a side on this one but clearly one or both of these individuals is behaving in a manner that lacks charity.
Now the value of charity in the Bible exceeds the value of good words, prophesying, martyrdom, knowledge, understanding, all faith, and alms (see 1 Corinthians 13) yet it is the least appreciated attribute of believers in this age and one of the least exercised. (In all this I am not saying I have attained either, I'm growing.)
Now, how does one look at someone who lacks charity? Is it not sin to lack charity? Ought we to look at someone who consistently lacks charity as not saved or as a believer that needs to repent and do good works? My adversaries might say these folks are clearly not saved to begin with (that is if they valued charity). I say salvation is by belief in the shed blood of Jesus Christ and we are saved unto good works. Therefore, I would appeal to my saved brethren to go on to good works that they might be rewarded positively at the JSOC and not to judge other believers as unsaved because they perceive the others sin to be worse than their own.
Christopher000 wrote: .... I think my choice was a fair one since I can't think of any other religion that would scare the government enough to just leave them be...no matter what. I think your post was pretty sharp, Rufus.
Proverbs 27:17 - Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
If I'm sharp, I'm not doing so to be mean but to attempt to enlighten and encourage some balance. Christians today are hung up on Muslims as though they are our primary enemy, though it is not Muslims that are leading this country and it is not Muslims that are taking away our liberty.
This article has nothing to do with Muslims but everything to do with another religion. That other religion will go unnamed but Muslims will be named though they have zero to do with this effort to be our enemy for the sake of the gospel.
Celtic hope wrote: If there were a Christian conference for homosexuals and 10,000 professing gay Christians attended (say Exodus International), what percentage would be eternally saved?
God knows. I do not. I do know of fundamentalist Christians, laborers for the Lord, that have been ensnared by this sin and I know of others ensnared by other sins. I trust them to be in trouble with the Lord but I trust him to be a faithful father who does not disown his children.
Luke 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. 22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
MN wrote: I think his point Rufus, is that this is primarily targeted at Christians. Not so much other faiths.
It certainly is targeted at Christianity for Christianity is the only true faith and the devil desires to hinder the labor of the faithful. My point is, we vilify the Muslims even when they are not responsible for offense and give a free pass to the people of the faiths that are actually doing the offending.
Lisa wrote: Job 34 vs 29-30 When he giveth quietness, who then can make trouble.and when he hiders his face who then can behold him. Whether it be done against a nation, or against a man only. That the hypocrit reign not, lest the people be ensnared.