There are some interesting questions that this brings to mind DJC49. One would think Jesus Christ would have focused on his Judean ministry but most of the writing of the gospels is about his Gallilean ministry. The proof of his messianic credentials is that he must be from Judaea and be a son of David, yet he never associates his ministry with his birth in Bethlehem, (that I am aware of in a quick thought).
This is really a good question and because of the emphasis of the Lord and the gospel writers, it deserves a good deal of attention, IMO.
Would you have considered Isa 9:1,2 a messianic prophecy if the Holy Spirit had not made the application in the gospels? The two tribes he mentioned were in the north, right?
Scroll to the bottom of the page and take a look at the pictures of our street ministry. In one of the pictures, Bro Alltop is holding a banner depicting the cross of Christ and Bro Waylon has a sign that says Christ died for the ungodly. I am across the street taking the pictures and my sign says "whoever you are, Christ died for you". All of us quote aloud Jn 3:16 that says God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son so the world might believe and not perish.
We believe the world MUST hear this message but for those who are concerned that they may say it to the unelect, I encouage you to not go and preach lest the wrong person hear it and you be condemned.
Whoever you are reading this, Christ died for you and you are invited to take of the water of life freely and without charge. Salvation from God the Father is a gift made possible by the death, burial, and resurrection of his son, Jesus Christ.
I thank you O Father God that you saved me and have given me the privilege of telling others of your marvelous Son.
And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene."
I am glad DJC49 brought this subject up. It is an intriguing subject and I have never given much study to it before but I have been looking over it and I notice that it is an important consideration because of the number of times it is used (29) and how the Lord himself was careful to qualify himself as being from Nazareth. He did this even long after the resurrection when he appeared to the desparate Saul on the road to Damascus. Ac 22:8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. Pilate noted he was from Nazareth when he ordered the crucifixion.
Joh 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
Nathaniel's response is interesting.
Joh 1:46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
The fact remains though that there seems to be no written prophecy in the OT that directly says he will be from Nazareth
Compare Is 9:1-2 and Mt 4:13-16. A messianic prophecy in Isa 9:1-2?
You have 12 more days left and I suggest you do a lot better.
The challenge is (It seems you have forgotten what it is) for you to find any verse in scripture saying that faith is the gift of God.
Now, that is your claim.
My goal here is to have you prove to me that the scripture nowhere says that faith is the gift of God and by so doing, repent of this "follow the leader" theology and start thinking like you have a mind of your own.
DJC49 wrote: Why? Because if you are correct, JD, then there must be a whole bunch of oral sayings and traditions SPOKEN by the prophets which may not have been written in Scripture. Right?
To suggest that something written under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost is tradition is (fill in the blank___________.
DJC49 wrote: And Barnes? JD probably never listens to a preacher expound and expand on Bible verses and totally shuns any kind of expository teaching of the same. Right?
I shun any scholarship that would make unwarranted statements like yours above, DJC49. It suggests that you do not know that the scriptures are actually the words of God and that he would have known what the prophets would have spoken in the OT.
Why is it you men have such a problem just believing what is said in the Scriptures. You would much rather take a perfectly plain statement from Scripture that needs no interpretation and roll it around in calvinism dough until the truth of it is obscured!
Eddy Fying wrote: Faith which is NOT the gift of God is a HUMAN FACULTY. So. Ro 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his [human faculty] is counted for righteousness
14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of [human faculty]: for whatsoever is not of [human faculty] is sin. Gal 3:25 But after that [human faculty] is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster Heb 11:1 Now [human faculty] is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen Acts 15:9] And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by [human faculty] Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from [human faculty] to [human faculty] as it is written, The just shall live by [human faculty]. Rom 5:1] Therefore being justified by [human faculty], we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:  By whom also we have access by [human faculty] into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. #AND 1Pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your [human faculty], even the SALVATION of your souls. [Well so JD says anyway]
Is that your way of saying you failed to find one verse saying faith is the gift of God? I accept it!
And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene."
The answer to this is really very simple. The Holy Spirit, who inspired both testaments, said it was SPOKEN by the prophets. He did not say it was written by the prophets. Therefore, it did not have to be recorded in the written word for it to be true.
MurrayA wrote: Your simplicisms in respect of Scripture do you no credit at all, nor do they have any effect on me, despite your facile censures.
Nevertheless MurrayA, when you spend your time here for the sole purpose of convincing people that the word of God cannot be believed as it is written, I am certainly going to conclude it is because you do not believe it and you have found a means to interpret it without accepting what it says.
Now the most fundamental problem you have is with the person and work of Jesus Christ, making his cross incidental to the election doctrine that does not even exist. I am not going to agree that we divide on doctrines that are not fundamental to the Christian faith.
You do not believe that God loves the world. Jn 3:16 you do not believe that Christ died for ever man. He 2:9 ( It seems you do take He 8-10 literally). You do not believe that whosoever will can take of the water of life freely and be saved? You do not believe all those things you cataloged in the last post to me.
It is a grevious error to teach that men are saved in order to believe when the scriptures teach that a man believes to be saved. This, we believe is a fundamental error on your part.
MurrayA wrote: As I have often replied to you, it's not that I don't believe the Bible; I just don't accept your Dispensational construction.
Please. MurrayA, you have forgotten that I have read your comments for a while and so far you have never believed what a text says without putting a spin on it.
Do you believe there was an actual rich man in hell in Luke 16? Do you believe God so loves the world in Jn 3:16 and that the world means the same as it does in Jn 3:17 and therefore everyone was the object of his love? Do you believe that Jesus Christ will come to this earth again and rule from Jerusalem and require the nations of the world to observe the feast of Tabernacles as per Ze 14?
Statements in Scripture like these need no interpretation from you and men like you, they need to be believed. The fact that you need to interpret them is a sure sign that you do not believe them.
Many other people are effected by your attitude towards the scriptures. You have touted scholarship and education and knowing how to read Greek & Hebrew as the best way to know doctrine and where has it gotten you? But you have not told anyone to just haul off and believe God.
Well, I think one ought to believe the word of God.
I know, MurrayA, and I am not trying to be unkind to you here, but my opinion of you is that you know very little about the Scriptures and you believe even less. If you do not believe what the verses say, one could not fault you for not understanding them and they certainly should not be surprised at your confession of ignorance.
DJC49 wrote: My apologies are extented to you, brother J.D. Smith.
Thank you. No offence taken.
I's a poor sinner wrote: If that bees so, then them poor folk in de OT were not saved because by your own words He was not given until the NT times? They did not need the Spirit to be saved, so what changed in de NT?
First, are you saying I an misquoting the texts on the Holy Spirit in Jn 4 and Jn 7? I copied and pasted the texts from a KJV bible. Are you saying they are wrong?
If not, are you saying I am misrepresenting the texts? If so, will you please inform me how I am doing it.
If not, are you saying that I am misinterpreting the texts? If you do, will you give me the correct interpretation, please?
About your concerns that I teach two ways of salvation.
The OT believers were JUSTIFIED by faith but the blood of Jesus Christ saved them. The OT saints were not reconciled to God because they were justified, but we are. Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ Ro 5:1. The common denominator in justification is faith. Not God's faith but our own faith. Compare these two verse, 1 from OT and one from NT
DJC49 wrote: Being a loyal Dispy, JD, you're true to form! You even see fit to divide the Godhead when the occasion arises! To say that Jesus did NOT so love the world as did the Father is blasphemous insanity.
It has nothing to do with dispensationalism but it does have something to do with historical context and understanding.
John wrote this gospel in the mid ninties AD. Christianity had been florishing in the earth for more than 60 years. When he wrote Jn 3:16 he could have written
For the Father so loved the world...but he din't. He said for God so loved the world. I have taken a long time in previous posts to demonstarte how the God-head, the trinity, is involved in every act of God except one. And I have demonstarated how each member of the Godhead also has a particular function in our rede4mption and I submit to you that loving the world is not a particular function of a single member of the Godhead but is a function of the triune God.
For "GOD" so loved the world.
I have more comments on Jn 17 later.
Jesus came to make the Father known.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip
I will give you two whole weeks to find the sctiptures saying that faith is the gift of God or to apologize to the good folk here for teliing lies like you believe sola scriptura.
Cults do not need for the bible to say things, they need for their founders to say things and then they need the scriptures to prove it. That is why you and others do not need the scriptures to actually say anything about total depravity, and it doesn't, and unconditional election, and it doesn't, and limited atonement, and it doesn't, and irressitible grace, and it doesn't or sovereign grace, and it doesn't, or covenant of works, and it doesn't, or covenant of grace, and it doesn't, or sovereign God, and it doesn't, or original sin, and it doesn't, or invisible church, and it doesn't, and on and on infinitum.
Now, you are attempting to make faith the gift of God while you ignore many passages and a post where I proved without any possibility of doubt that the gift of God is salvation in the person of the indwelling Holy Spirit who is typified in numerous books of the bible as water of life. Not one mention of that irrefutable proof but the comeback is with the false philosophies of the so-called church fathers who wrote your faith.
DJC49 wrote: JD, Yours is a silly exercise in futility and absurdity since no one here has claimed that the word *world* used in John 17 carries the meaning of *the elect* in any of its usages.
They have claimed, and I think you have also, that world in Jn 3:16 is the elect. For God so loved the elect, you say. For God sent not his son into the elect to condemn the elect but that the elect through him might be saved.
However, It is God who loved the world. The functions of the Godhead must be noted. It is not said that the Father so loved the world or that Jesus Christ so loved the world, it is said that God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son to the perishing world that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but might be saved.
He that believes will be saved, not he who is elect shall be saved. This is the promise of God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
Believing in Christ whom he hath sent is the reason for the love of the Father, not that they were pre-elect.
Mike wrote: Faith is not THE gift. Salvation is.(Eph 2:8)
Mike, Their inability ito find faith as the gift is your best proof beside the Scriptures that you have.
THE gift of God is clearly stated. It is salvation, it is the Spirit of God who is salvation.
Acts 2:38b and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acs 10 because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I have already proven that God is life, the Holy Spirit is God and he that has the son has life.
Joh 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
The water is the Spirit!
Joh 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified.
I must go out now and prove that I believe what I am sayiong, that God so loves the world, faith comes by hearing the gospel, and that they can not believe without a preacher, That God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe and that he that has the son has life and that God will save whosoever will believe in Jesus Christ whether they have been elected before the foundation of the world or not.
When I come back I will finish my irrefutable proof of what I am saying from the scriptures that is being met with eddy fying's human philosophy without proof.
This is standard stuff here.
As one who is longsuffering with the lost, and with those who don't have their theology quite right, I am not so patient with Christians who profess Christ but show little evidence of that - especially love.
Would you comment on that? _
Yes I will. I will comment now that Love is not what you people say it is.
If a man brings poison into the room and pours it into all the glasses and I point him out and warn of the poison and so save life, could I be accused of not loving the poisoner.
Now, having proven that Jesus Christ was praying specifically for the disciples that he had chosen and sent out, his apostles in Jn 17:6 through 19, he then prays for those who would believe in the future through their testimony.
They had believed through his testimony and works:
Jn 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
There would be those in the world who will believe through their testimony and works.
Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
One should note the future tenses. That they may be one, he prayed, indicating that though they were chosen and believed they were not one at this time. Then he prays for those who shall believe through their words. He prays that they too shall be one with the Father and the son.
Of course, this prayer can be answered only though the church of Jesus Christ which had it's beginning after the resurrection. The church of Jesus Christ is the answer to this prayer.
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we
Joh 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received [them], and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
Joh 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. 70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Jesus Christ cannot lose aperson he has saved. Therefore he was not speaking of those he had chosen to be saved, but those he had chosen for a particular service. One of them was not kept, but though chosen by the Lord, was lost!
These are those he was praying for in Jn 17:6-19.
Here is the first specific he prays for them
keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. V 11