For example, the ones who are lost are dead while they live.

Ephesians 2:1-3 KJV
(1)  And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(2)  Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
(3)  Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

All natural men are dead because of a broken law. It is punishment.

Galatians 2:19 KJV
(19)  For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Does 'dead' always have to refer to physical or spiritual death? Not at all. Here Paul says that whereas once he was trying to get right with God by law, he now 'sees' himself as dead to the law, but alive to other things.

Romans 7:9 KJV
(9)  For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Lurker wrote:
...
We agree that Paul was not speaking of the life of his natural body but of his soul. We also agree that Paul was not indwelt by the HS before Damascus Road and most likely never until Ananias laid hands on him. So how could his soul be alive without the HS?

Romans 7:9 KJV
(9) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

1. "For I was alive without the law."

Saul was never 'without' the law, he was brought up with it, and knew it intimately. But being unregenerate, he did not understand the law's demands, so he considered himself secure, alive to God, he had got spiritual life (so he thought).

So in my book, he was 'unregenerate', without the Spirit. But he 'considered' himself secure. He 'considered' himself alive to God. He 'thought that' he had gotten spiritual life, in keeping with every other Pharisee.

Frank wrote:
Absolutely perfect brother. And we can't yell fire in a crowded movie theater.
And there are many more things like lying under oath, etc.

Lurker wrote:
Yup. That's the way I see it. He was alive without the law all the way back to the stoning of Stephen where Saul is first mentioned and even back to Pentecost for the matter.

Frank wrote:
You are right brother. Negative peer pressure is probably one of the worst human evils that we have. Christians often don’t speak out because of their peers and much of their thoughts about life and scripture are either silenced or modified to suit their peers. But, we are to love and serve our Lord above all else.
You do realize that I will be pondering this all day now.

Adriel wrote:
You can get some speech for a couple of quid.
But that’s cheap!!

Frank wrote:
Pilgrim,
Why couldn’t the Lord simply allow these men to see the star the way they did; as a guide. IOW, the star moved “for them” and the Lord helped them follow it. Yes, this would be a miracle, but there is nothing difficult for the Lord. When they got to the manger, the Lord said stop, you are here. Or an angel from heaven helped them navigate using the star. Of course the Lord didn’t need to use a star, but He did.
Saying it was solely an angel doesn’t detract from the meaning, but it changes what was said. An angel would have been just as miraculous. Just because we don’t understand how or why the Lord used a star doesn’t change the fact that He did.
No argument with you or QC, just the musings of an old man.

Frank wrote:
Amen Brother! It is amazing to me that a woman can be pressured to murder her unborn child. I simply don’t understand the weakness of a person who would do that. And I think statistics say that 1 in 4 women in the U.S. have murdered their unborn child.
Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Kieron wrote:
There’s no such thing as “Absolute Free Speech”, that’s a vague term. It’s developed by those who hate free speech. In the national laws you can be sued for slander and libel.
In scripture Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour and many more verses.

This is only common sense. You cannot permit absolute freedom to speak or post using swear words for example, or make threats against other posters. You may not put bomb-making information in your post nor anything that is likely to cause an upheaval.

Kieron wrote:
John Lee from Wales writes:
I don't believe in absolute free speech.
Please define “Absolute Free Speech”.

Romans 7:9 KJV
(9) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Let me see if I have got the drift correct, and if not, perhaps you can clarify.

Are you saying that "Paul did not experience any kind of death until the beginning of his conversion on the road to Damascus?"
_________

Also, "One other thing. In your reply to sister B. it seems you may be confusing the term dynamic equivalent (sense for sense, eg: modern versions, NLT) with formal equivalent (word for word, eg. KJV). The former basically interprets the bible for the reader while the latter leaves interpretation to the HS who inspired the bible."

Your second point here is quite correct, and I got it the wrong way round. Thanks for pointing that out.

On the text, I have something for you to peruse; it is mine own opinion, and I haven't studied it in depth.

Romans 7:9 KJV
(9)  For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

1. "For I was alive without the law."

Saul was never 'without' the law, he was brought up with it, and knew it intimately. But being unregenerate, he did not understand the law's demands, so he considered himself secure, alive to God, he had got spiritual life (so he thought).

2. "But when the commandment came".

That is, when God applied the full force of the commandment, by his Spirit, then Saul had a change of heart regarding the law. The commandment 'came' to him. Eyes were opened.

3. "Sin revived and I died".

Saul then saw what sin actually was; it became clear to his mind; he no longer saw the keeping of the law as a way to make him right with God. Rather he saw his guilt. And knowing that the soul that sinneth shall die, he realised that having sinned, he had died previously. Not at that instant, but previously, when he actually first sinned.

B. McCausland wrote:
John,

Btw, most of the issues you detail in your last post are details of little significance, mere pretexts affecting little...

Before this convo goes pear shaped, which you are getting very good at these days, I will bow out, because no good will ever come of trying to prove anything about the Bible. We have not one autograph, so you are incapable of proof regarding texts.

However, if you were to say that after all these years of sloth, the Received Text merchants were finally to revise the KJV, you would still complain, even though that is the most sensible thing to do. It is a marvellous thing when so-called 'experts' in the faith grumble at me for quoting the Bible, yet would not countenance the making of a modern version from the Received Text because they are so entrenched in tradition and more interested in arguing ABOUT the Bible than actually obeying it.

Besides, there are plenty of other people on this forum who read Bibles other than the KJV. Have a go at them, if you are genuinely concerned about it.

B. McCausland wrote:
John, the percentage of words in disuse is quite small, however sufficient to create an issue by many, yet the main block is understood by a 6 grader and even less.
Quality is the quest.
Any study book has a glossary for difficult words to promote learning.
Modern easy-to-read versions never do that.

The important thing is to believe what you read and put it into practice.

What I'm confident of is this:

If your Bible has 'Noe', 'Osee', and 'Elias', is it not better if they were changed to 'Noah', 'Hosea', and 'Elija'?

Or if your Bible has 'wot', is it not better to change it to 'know'?

Or if your Bible has 'month of Abib', to change it to a month you understand?

Or if your Bible has 'ninth hour', is it not better to change it to 3.00pm?

Or if your Bible has 'denarius', why not change it to 'a day's wages'?

Frank wrote:
Very good example brother. Someone with a bad hermeneutic would say because the star in Rev. 1:20 was an analogy, then that means the word star “could be” analogous in another verse. I simply yield first to the word and its normal definition and then to the context if necessary. The below 2 verses appear to be talking about a literal star. I admit that some things are clear; Jesus is not a literal door and other things are not.
And what QC is pondering might be right, but it is not my hermeneutic.
Matthew 2:9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.