John Yurich USA wrote:
He is to be believed in the other about his becoming Born Again because he stated he embraced Jesus as his Lord and Savior.

How'd ya guess?

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Now the question arises, if Christ is King already what throne is he occupying?

In the OT it was always said that he would occupy the throne of his father David. This is also confirmed in the NT see Luke 1 vs 32,33 - the words of the angel to Mary:

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

However if he is already enthroned and he is therefore occupying the throne of his father David, where is this throne?

Surely not upon the earth.

Then it starts to make sense that our Lord said of his kingdom that it is not of this world. It is other wordly, it is spiritual. His reign is a spiritual reign. He is king in his spiritual kingdom and we are citizens of this kingdom already by being translated into that kingdom from the kingdom of darkness.

I am sure that you will have lots of questions building up even from the little that I have said so far and so I am going to stop here for the time being to let you digest this and think upon it.

More tidbits to come over the next few days, Lord willing.

John Yurich USA wrote:
Born Again means that one has embraced Jesus as their Lord and Savior, asked Him for forgiveness of sins and trusts entirely in Him alone for salvation.

John Yurich USA wrote:
And you believe what Trump stated on Television? Why would you believe what Trump stated on Television? That is just not logical to believe what Trump stated on Television. And Trump stated that he became Born Again so naturally he asked God for forgiveness before embracing Jesus as his Lord and Savior.

Sorry, but a month or two's worth of work just land on my desk, so I am going to struggle to get that paper written shortly.

But, rather than keep you waiting, if you're prepared to participate in this exercise, I will start a train of thought, that even if I am not able to finish, at least will show you the direction of my thinking.

I hope that this temporary solution is acceptable to you. The first moment I get to write that paper in full, DV, I will do so and then I will post it up so that you get a more complete picture.

So, on the assumption that this is okay, I am going to start with looking at Colossians 1 v13 which reads:

"...Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son.."

Well, you might wonder why would I choose such a verse.

The answer is that here is the apostle Paul speaking of something that God had done to the Colossians and to him viz. the wonderful work of conversion, forgiving them their sins (see the next verse v14) and in their conversion they had literally moved from one kingdom to another. But, whose kingdom was this? Why, it was the kingdom of his dear Son! So here we have a clear statement that Christ is already enthroned: he is already King ..

Dave wrote:
...
Do you think that Jesus will upon his return sit on an earthly physical throne of David?
Do you think the temple measured out in Ezekiel is a physical earthly temple?
..

This is a huge topic but extremely profitable to uncover the correct hermeneutics of the Bible. Because of this I am not going to be able to cover this in a few posts. God willing, I will try and prepare something and post it up in parts as I am able.

In the meantime bro can I recommend that you study the NT and chase down every OT reference and allusion to see how the Holy Spirit himself explains the OT scriptures.

I fear that too many, like the Presbys, start with the OT, decide that the carnal Jewish literalism was correct and then proceed to read their preconceived OT conceptions into the NT.

Remember the carnal Jews missed the Messiah because they expected an earthly ruler who would break the Roman yoke, delivering his people and then conquer the rest of the world.

Lurker wrote:
I see them as polar opposites.

Bro, one is seen as the cause and the other as the effect.

So take for instance Romans 5.13, 14

The issue is those that died between Adam's fall and the giving of the Law to Moses. Verse 13 says that sin cannot be imputed where there is no law and yet verse 14 then goes on to state that nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses.

Since death is the wages of sin, whose sin was the cause of their death if not their own? Their own could not be imputed to them because there was no law!

These verses are of course expanding on verse 12 which reads:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned

Look also at verses 17-19

v17 - death reigned because of Adam's sin
v18 - Judgement fell upon all men because of his offence
v19 - His disobedience made us sinners

Anyways, I know you don't want to discuss this, so I will stop here.

I just thought I would explain how the 2 are not polar opposites any more than us being accounted righteous by imputation of Christ's righteousness and then made righteous by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Dave wrote:
May I posed a question elder observer?
Do we take the Davidic covenant literal?

I'll be real happy to answer your question, but I do need some clarification. Can you please explain what you understand by the Davidic covenant and what literal aspects are you asking about?

Thanks.

I have to go out the rest of the day, but if, Lord willing, I am able to look in tomorrow, I'll see if I can't provide you with a biblical answer to your question.

Tired wrote:
...
How can this kind of blind nationalism possess people who profess to follow Christ? ..

Ephesians 2

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being ****aliens from the commonwealth of ISRAEL****, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 BUT NOW in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, *****who hath made BOTH ONE****, and *****hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us****..."

Dispys by their theology still maintain the Jew/Gentile divide and believe that the NT made no difference to the middle wall of partition between them or at best that its breaking down is temporary and that it will be re-erected.

Tired wrote:
I find this is helpful as I try and sort out this matter. Thank you.

If you consider the OT promises to the patriarchs in the light of this NT truth, then the scriptures will open up wonderfully.

The Dispy idea of ethnic Jews still being the people of God is total nonsense.

Lurker wrote:
I deny the imputation of Adam's transgression to his progeny but agree all are born with Adam's propensity to commit sin.

In systematic theology these are one and the same thing, so no need to argue over anything.

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Brothers and sisters

Are we seeing the step by step dismantling of John UK's cherished theological position which he claims to have espoused for so many years?

First it was particular redemption, now he is questioning man's inability.. wow! Why does he not spare us all the pain of reading all this stuff and just admit his secret arminianism. His secret semi-pelagianism has been evident in many of his posts because he is desperate to want to believe that man can actually make a difference in their own salvation. After all, how else can God be sincere to all in the gospel command to repent and believe if they were not capable of doing so, right?

Eph 4.14 ....be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive

BTW Have any you denied the universal preaching of the Gospel?!

Bro Frank,

Considering that he doesn't even seem to know the difference between evangelical experiential religion and mystical experiences, it should come as no surprise to him that I for one consider his desideratum total hog wash!!

Anyhoo, this old fella's done for the day, and so I wish God's richest blessings to his true Israel.

So Satan has his own ministers who transform themselves as ministers of righteousness, but who deceitfully preach another Jesus, NOT the Jesus preached by the apostles, and the worse part is that the apostle Paul can imagine that even a church as blessed with spiritual gifts as the Corinthian church was would well bear with them and their false Jesus and required that the great apostle himself warn them of such a danger.

Generally speaking today we have people who are so biblically illiterate that they just cannot conceive of such a thing and so Satan's ministers are walking around preaching another Jesus who loves but is not so particular about truth etc. & the blind do not recognize that this is the case.

To add insult to injury, those who perceive what is going on and who (for the love they bear to their fellow believers and for their jealously for the Lord's cause) warn others are seen as the evil and divisive ones!

What a state of affairs! The standard of churches and believers is at an all time low and we can see this everywhere, not just by the general biblical illiteracy but also by the low level of discernment, the worldliness, the almost negligible desire for real holiness and service for the Lord etc.

2 Cor 11

2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth ****another Jesus****, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Here we have the apostle Paul hinting that another Jesus or gospel the Corinthians would well bear with BUT his godly jealousy over them caused him to warn them about false preachers, apostles, deceitful workers transforming themselves into false apostles (messengers) of Christ, a pretense to preach another Christ! AND look at verses 14 & 15:

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness..."

28 ..he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Follow the NT definition of a true Jew and you will be surer in your exegesis.

Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

John Yurich USA wrote:
In every Crusade of the Grahams that I have seen on Television they have always preached the biblical Gospel of salvation just like any Baptist Pastor does. Where am I deceived? My Baptist Pastor preaches the biblical doctrine of salvation every Sunday in his sermons.

John Yurich USA wrote:
Oh for the love of. The Grahams are not involved in any spiritual deception. The Grahams have always preached in their Crusades the biblical doctrine of salvation that salvation is received by embracing Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Frank wrote:
Hey brother! I hope your new year is blessed and joy filled!

Likewise I pray that yours may be full of Christ and that the Lord will bless you and yours abundantly.

Frank wrote:
Yes, I always appreciate it when people like you take into consideration the aging brains of some of us.

It is written of Moses:

Deut 34

7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

Ladybug wrote:
thank you penned, I have been blessed again

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Hey Penned - glad to see you posting again too. I thought maybe you'd given up.

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Regarding the continuing discussion about the Grahams and their spiritual deception:

"Cursed be he that doeth the work of the Lord deceitfully" (Jeremiah 48:10)

Frank wrote:
I hope that you have lowered your IQ somewhat.