Yes it is! The kingdom signs had been prophecied for centuries. It had been preached as at hand and the miracles was a sign of the Messianic credentials whether you or Mr J know it, believe it, or like it.

Joh 5:36 But I have greater witness than [that] of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
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Speaking of "erring greatly," JD, would you care to remind us again how the OT saints were somehow saved without being redeemed? ...
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The Lord sent his 12 apostles:

But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

The miracles confirms the message!

Mt 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

All that is needed now is repentance!

To the disciples:

The context of the kingdom that you quoted was the MIRACLES which were the signs of the kingdom. This in no way meant the kingdom was set up but that he who is the king was among them and the kingdom powers were present only because he was there. This should have been a good reason for thenm to accept him. The first order of business for Israel for the kingdom to be set up was "REPEBTANCE" and I doubt that any one of you would argue that the attitude of these rulers of israel was repentance.

Mt 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

There was no repentance in Israel. They killed their king, for crying out loud!

1Co 4:20 For the kingdom of God [is] not in word, but in power.

How ia the best way to deal with ignorance like this??

Mt 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is AT HAND.

1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is AT HAND.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them,...preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is AT HAND.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, HE CANNOT ENTER INTO the KINGDOM OF GOD.

Mt 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Those born of the Spirit are greater than those born of the flesh.

I am sorry but your answer is nothing but human philosophy and you offered not one statement of God to back up your very weak attempt at saying that salvation is a progressive idea ( He grew cowardly, and discontent, and suspicious, in constant repetition, never progressing in saving grace.) Apparently you have not kept up with the contention of the opposition. They use verses like the one previous to prove men were indwelt by the Spirit of God. Well, here, let me quote it to you.

1Sa 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward.

They would then try to prove Ps 51:11 means that David had the indwelling Holy Spirit

Ps 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

I honestly think that none of you know what you are trying to say!

I refuse to be baited by you men into an irrlelevant war of accusations that gets us off topic, something that you fellows have been trying to do since I have been dealing with this subject. It is too importrant and you cannot and will not answer my points scripturally because you are not defending the integrity of scripture but an evolving set of doctrines that had it's beginning in the 1500's and is antibiblical. That is what I have been proving.

Here, defend the P in tulip from this statement in the OT! (and don't forget that I believe in eternal security).

1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Now, you men have insisted that the Holy Ghost has indwelt men and regenerated them before the cross in direct contradiction to what is taught in John's gospel by the Lord himself and you have had no answer to these things. If you feel comfortable with your position, continue on by all means but expect opposition from me, in Christian love, of course!

No, No, DEE JAY CEE 49, that is not the reason for God sending his Holy Spirit. The reason for the Spirit is so men can be born again. Christ had now paid the sin debt with his own blood. God can once again, since Adam, indwell men because he can wash away his sin.Re 1:5 He was dead without God being a part of him and now he is alive because God is a part of his nature. The body, soul, and Holy Spirit of God.

DJC49 wrote:
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Did someone here "minimize the importance" of the sending of the Spirit?
I didn't think so either.

.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day (The day of the Lord) should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

The subject is in verse 2
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

The Day of the Lord is a day of Darkness:

Am 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end [is] it for you? the day of the LORD [is] darkness, and not light.

It is an appointed day of wrath of God!

Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

The church shall be delivered from the wrath of God!

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

This is the baptism that counts:

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

The church, with the indwelling Spirit, Son and Father according to Eh 4;6 are born again and has a heavenly inheritance that we will receive at the rapture when this body is complete and the church is given the new body and is translated in and by the Spirit to our heavenly reward leaving the earth in darkness because God is not here.

To minimize the importance of the sending of the Spirit is a great injustice to sound doctrine and will not gain favor with God.

Here is what is said;

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

1) out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

This had never happened because he said

2) 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Did that mean there were no believers before Acts 2? No!

Jn 2:11 and his disciples believed on him.

Joh 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

Joh 10:42 And many believed on him there.

& on and on!

No, I would have you beleive that the revelation of God is better than human philosophy. You have not even addressed the verses I used to prove my points.

Let me try this:

Our Lord said:
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Nicodemas did both these things.;

Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

According to the promise, Nicodemas was now one of Christ's but he was still told he must be born of the Spirit to see and enter THE KINGDOM.

Lu 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Ac 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Ac 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ga 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

DJC49 wrote:
Humility indeed!
Now, in your humility, JD, would you care to explain how the blood of bulls and goats made atonement with God for sin?

29 And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you:

The following verse is just as relevant to the subject at hand as the verses you quoted without comment.

Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Just admit it. You have no personal ability to defend your adopted religion. There is no shame in that if you will allow someone to teach you the truth. Humility is key here!
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You wrote:

Hence his disputing the Holy Spirit was not involved in OT times.
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No no, (imagine me shaking my finger at you here). I have never said that the Holy Spirit did not have an OT ministry. I have said it is far different from his NT ministry of bithing believers in the gospel of Jesus Christ into the family of God and indwelling them and baptizing them into the body of Christ, the church of Jesus Christ.

Minnow wrote:
If Jesus died to save ALL then All would be saved.

Until you prove this Scripturally, you are just a wind blowing in the trees.

I have proven that the Spirit of God IS LIFE and salvation and is the gift of God. The OT saints had justification but they were saved by the cross of Christ. Hence, they did not appear in the presence of God before the cross but was in Paradise in the center of the earth. Christ led them to heaven ater his glorification but the church saints appears in the presence of God immediately at death. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".