B.Mccausland Thank you for your time but you still haven't answered why the apostles had to go lay hands on the believers in Samaria to receive the holy spirit. It is a delegate occurrence otherwise it just wouldn't make sense.
B.mccausland If we are baptised into the spirit in Christ then the apostles had no need to lay hands on the believers to receive the spirit in Samaria. I hope you don't think wet receive the spirit differently to them?
That is right! The time of completeness is when we will be in heaven with Christ. When we will be completely perfect with no more diseases or imperfections. Of course we will no longer need any of the gifts. Anyways i guess the difference is that i believe the gifts are present for today but you believe they have ceased. I think there is no longer anything else i can say. Thank you for time and having patience with me! :-)
I'm not arguing the necessity of tongues. I believe they are a sign that a believer has been baptised in the spirit. And that they are given by God. If Jesus thought the baptism of the spirit was a necessity for the disciples then i also believe it is necessary for me. Peter who was a coward, denied Jesus, post baptism had the courage to stand up and preach Jesus and spends his life ministering to the jews. That is a supernatural thing that occurred in his life that gave him that courage and i need that too. Therefore to me the baptism of the spirit is important so that i may be a better witness to others. I know a lady who has visions and prophecies all the time and they have all (to my knowledge) been spot on. i can't deny the supernatural work God has done in my life and i am a different person to who i was before. So i can't possibly agree with you that it no longer exists.
That is why i don't think that piece of Scripture is taking about 'now' but when Christ comes again. We would not need knowledge, tongues or prophesies.
Baptism of the spirit is a submersion of ourselves into the holy spirit. That is why apostle Paul commands us to be filled in the spirit. he was speaking to believers. This infilling is what i am speaking about.
Please then explain the examples in the books of Acts that speak of baptism in the spirit? The household of Cornelius, the disciples in Jerusalem and the believers in Samaria. You are right we are children of God at conversion. i am not disputing that. I just believe as per the scripture that the baptism of the holy spirit is a seperate occurrence as with the examples i provided below.
Apostle Paul, himself states that he speaks in tongues (1 Corinthians 13v1, 14v18). But it is interesting to note that Scripture does not ever mention of Paul speaking in tongues publicly or that he preached to somebody in tongues. Most likely it was his own private prayer language.. 4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[b] but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,[c] unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified. 1 cor 14 v4 onwards
I'm not referring to false tongues used by other religions or even the Roman catholics or even some charismatic churches. I'm taking about biblical tongues. Anyways I've tried to explain my position the best as i can. I may not be so good at that but there is no need to get nasty.
Tongues as a private prayer language is a language given by God. I believe it is an angelic language. Tongues as a gift is another language given supernaturally to one already baptised in the spirit to do god's work. I know a man who went to Israel and Palestine on a mission trip and while they were walking through a village,God filled up with the spirit and they started to speak in tongues. It was the Arabic language which they had never studied and had not known how to speak. And they spoke to the villagers (they themselves not knowing what they were saying)but the villagers understood. Who is to say these gifts are not in effect today. It is just your opinion and your own interpretation of Scripture. You ignore other scripture and it is so sad. I guess if you never have seen true prophecies or tongues it is hard to fathom. But don't just flip it off just because you do not know. And how can you be so sure tongues aren't in effect today? Are you so sure you know everything and your interpretation is right? Look at all the scripture. Not just at some scattered pieces. The whole new testament is filled with them.
1 thess 5v19 to 22. Do not quench the spirit do not despise prophecies. test all things and hold fast to what is good. It is unfortunate that you think the spiritual language God gives us unintelligent dribble. I guess foreigners will think the same of the English language. But God made all languages and I'd be not so quick to pass judgement just because it is foreign to me or because i do not understand. I did not mean to offend. May the holy spirit himself open this up to whoever is searching the truth. God bless you all.
They themselves are not entirely sure or convinced that they are baptised in the Holy Spirit.
I don’t have any doubt because I have the evidence of baptism in the Holy Spirit- I speak in tongues. It is not something you make up, or learn to say, it is given by the Holy Spirit and when you are baptised- you will know without a doubt that you are not ‘just pretending’, that it is a supernatural occurrence.
We cannot see the Holy Spirit but we can see how He works within us. So the speaking in tongues is a specific sign that we have accepted the gift of the Holy Spirit.
There is a difference of the gift of tongues which is used by God to speak to people and tongues as a private language for us to speak to God. When Scripture tells us that not all speak in tongues- it is referring to the gift of tongues, that not all have the gift of speaking with tongues to people, that is God speaking through them in tongues (1 Corinthians 12v10, 30). When we are speaking of tongues as a prayer language, between us and God- that is for everyone and all can experience that.
Any person who takes the Bible and reads it without any help from anyone, will come to the conclusion that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is evidenced with the sign of tongues. For the first Christians it was obvious. That is why in the other 3 examples within the book of Acts it is not mentioned. And it is quite logical to assume that all those baptisms in the Holy Spirit occurred with the sign of speaking in tongues.
When people come up and say that they are baptised in the Holy Spirit but do not speak in tongues, ask them, ‘when were you baptised and how do you know that you are?’ The answers always vary: ‘I felt good, somebody told me, I had hands laid upon me...’ etc. None of these answers are good arguments for their cause- they are not founded on Scripture. They themselves are no
Isaiah 33v19 is speaking about the land of the majestic king. That Pele will not be afraid but be fierce. They will be bold in their speech and not stutter or stammer. Their speech will be wise. This isn't speaking about supernatural gifts or the evidence of being baptised in the spirit. I'm sorry but it is out of context.
The scripture says that the spirit gives the gifts to whoever he wills. Apostle Paul though encourages us To DESIRE spiritual gifts ESPECIALLY that we may prophesy.1 cor 14v1. 1 cor 14v39 and 40.apostle Paul encourages us to desire to prophecy and not to forbid to speak in tongues. There is a proper way to judge prophecies and they must be weighed against the word of God. Unfortunately Satan had been successful in discouraging people to seek spiritual gifts due to fake prophets and healers and what not. So people now become wary of God's gifts and because they are unable to distinguish between the true and false prophets they just decide to not believe it happens at all and that all prophecies are false. That is the sad part. That God gave gifts to equip the church to be a powerful testimony accompanied with miracles and healings and prophecies. But nobody longer believes that God does that and so. ...here we are.
8/14/15 4:39 AM
