Just an aside, the bridge next to my house just collapsed. The town road crew got my neighbors and young children out they said. I heard the bridge and road go down, it all happened so fast. The water is rising fast, and the center of the storm is due at 6 PM. Men folk aren't worried. I'm a little scared. Prayers for those in NY close to water appreciated.
John UK wrote: 1. I'm still trying to work out if there is a difference between my beliefs and the beliefs of covenanters, Ruth. Have you spotted any thus far?...
1. No John, but I have noted that most men are better with words, so I try not to miss something I need to understand in order to keep up in the Scriptural argument presented. 2.You quoted 3 texts, to which are you referring? 3. revisit Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. kingdom(s)bot places. In Matthew 25:31-46 The Lord addresses the moral persons of nations as individual nations; yet their will be men at the Judgment seat accounting for their own response in their place calling and station. 4.I need no man to teach me in one sense if I have the unction of the Spirit and I do by grace, yet I need Pastors and teachers as Christ's under shepherds also as it is written in Ephes.4 God is Good John, I know we agree on that!
John UK wrote: So God's covenant of grace is "a promise" to Abraham and his seed. And we are "children of promise" to match, as in Galatians 4:28, spiritually descendents of Abraham.
John, so far we agree, I don't believe I have said anything contrary to what you just stated. However, unless you've rethought some of your former views, I know we still have some differences in the application of these Scriptures. This is where, I believe the Ministry is meant to come in. We agree, we have some restraints here, regarding teacher. That is why I rely so heavily on the teachers in antiquarian books 'old paths' Canticles 1:8; . See Jeremiah 6:2-4 and consider.
I am still making a distinction between the Israel of God spiritual and the land of Judah temporal, because I believe all Israel 'spiritual' shall be saved. And the kingdom's' of this world, will become the Kingdom's' of our Lord and of His Christ. Do you see?
SteveR wrote: On another thread I outlined who some RCUS churches have Christmas trees next to their pulpits as they condemn idolatry of other Christians. Idolatry is an abomination Should their members quit?
Churches with such holyday trees have a poor understanding of the word of God; therefore many of their people would not even know that it was wrong, not having been well taught. But if one was to come under conviction, from the Scripture and better teachers it would be hoped that they'd follow Matthew 18; however, it is rare to find two to agree close enough, in this back-slidden time to proceed with the right steps of discipline. It being broken when government is broken either in Church or State; separate institutions, under God, as either Creator-civil or Redeemer-church
I read the following on Yahoo News related to the east coast earth quake in VA, in an article about the weakened Irene and this caught my attention:
"I was telling people, 'All I can say is we all better go to church on Sunday,'" Mayor Pam Harlowe said. "But unfortunately a bunch of them are closed."
I for one am humbled by God's mercy, not giving us what we deserve, He is aware that we in NY are not much different then Jonah's Ninevites. But we can still give thanks right where we are all settled in; "to render thanks unto the Lord it is a comely thing and to thy Name of thou most High due praise aloud to sing, thy loving kindness to show forth when shines the morning light and to declare thy faithulness with pleasure every night"
John UK wrote: Hi Ruth Is this the covenant to which you refer: Hebrews 10:12-17 KJV
Good Sabbath John, Your text from Hebrews, where the apostle Paul addresses all Christians, for all time, was especially addressed to Jewish NT saints, Yes? He is giving a reference to them to prove that Christ is the fulfillment of Jeremiah's prophesy Jer.31:33
Romans 11:28-30 "As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.('irrevocable' and we know God never fails to keep His part) For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:" This and many other Scriptures indicates to me, God relates to His Church, which is One (Ephesians, the Epistle) through covenants and they respond to Him by that grace and mercy He has extended to them in the Covenant of Grace; which had been foreshadowed in all the other OT covenants that preceded their fulfillment in Christ. John, it is only the doctrines that are specifically removed by apostolic teaching in the NT that are not continuous for all time. Though now, in the light of the NT, these doctrines are better understood in all thei
Rax wrote: 1. I commend you on your expert sarcastic tone....
Rax I considered before the Lord you retort in the night watches. 1. I believe it was more skepticism then intended sarcasm, if sarcasm there in part, it is at times appropriate. Were you not doing the same to 'commending my expert sarcastic tone', when you can't hear my tone. Weren't you were actually challenging me to consider to whom I was speaking? I don't know to whom I am speaking. 2. I said 'true Scottish Presbyterians' emphasis 'true' not perfect, faithful not sinless. Mr. Gillespie and Durham clearly held what you call 'a romantic historic position'. It was pointed out on the Puritan Board recently that it was the early church's eschatalogical position. 3. I can prove my heritage both by blood and faith. You don't fear for your body, I have been tempted to it, but by different opposing factors then you mention, outside the covenants' wall of protection. My fear of Roman Anglicanism is for my soul related to a broken covenant. 4. Joshua 24; Joshua as a prophetic type of Christ said he and his house would serve the Lord. No one can keep covenant outside the Covenant of Grace; no true Covenanter ever did, nor ever will.
Mike wrote: God is a Scot? I thought he was an Englishman.
The God of the Scripture relates to His people through the means of Covenants, that he initiates with men.
Numbers 23:18-19 "And he took up his parable, and said, Rise up, Balak, and hear; hearken unto me, thou son of Zippor: God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Who said anything about the end of the world? I must have missed that. Amos 3:2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.
I read a sermon on Wednesday evening by John Welwood on this text. He anticipated God's righteous judgment on covenant breakers in this life as did the Apostle Paul; but it is also true "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." I think it good to be ever ready. Rev.14:9-12 " And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." This speaks of eternal readiness to my generation, and the next.
Rax wrote: No I am a Scottish Presbyterian where the covenanters fought and died for this type of church government. The reason I pointed out the reference to Calvin was to show that the Reformers were not all totally against episcopacy.
That's nice; as you mention, some of the earlier Reformers were still reforming. Phil.3:16 "Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing." But later in history our Covenants were clearly against Paganism, Popery, Prelacy, Erastianism, Independency, Sectarianism, and Malignancy. I know of no true Scottish Presbyterian that thinks the Covenants are a mute point. You are Scottish, good for you; that is if you are the faithful to the Covenants and if not you will answer to God and to no other.
Rax wrote: He was not an exclusive or bigoted Presbyterian.
John Calvin was a man. He was used of God, I grant, however it is where Calvin follows the Scripture, we follow Calvin and where he departs from it, we depart from following him.
You are a Prelate and I a Presbyterian. Presbyterianism is the form of Church Government most agreeable to the Scriptures of BOTH the Old and New Testaments. Mr. Rutherford in Lex Rex and Mr. Gillespie in Aaron's Rod Blossoming clearly proved from the Scripture both forms of Government to be preferred, whether in Church or State as separate institutions. You would keep these together to maintain power. It is written: John 19:10-12 "Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? Jesus answered, THOU COULDEST HAVE NO POWER AT ALL AGAINST ME, EXCEPT IT WERE GIVEN THEE FROM ABOVE: THEREFORE HE THAT DELIVERED ME UNTO THEE HATH THE GREATER SIN. And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar." The Crown and the Covenants are Christ's and He will vindicate His own Glory.
As a New Yorker, awaiting the verdict of how the Sovereign God of all the earth, judges it best to execute his decrees, I muse and meditate on the Lord my Righteousness and the Glory that is due to Him ONLY as Creator and Redeemer. God is a Spirit, Infinite, Eternal, Unchangeable in His Being, Wisdom, Power, Holiness, Justice, Goodness and Truth. He need not compromise one attribute at the expense of another. He is Almighty God. Anyone interested in God's historical dealings with this state might want to see http://covenanter.org/JRWillson/tokens.htm 'Tokens of the Divine Displeasure, in the Late Conflagrations in New-York, & other Judgments Illustrated' I read it for the first time in 2008, it was written by a New-York, RP Minister, a faithful and true witness; yet not perfect and sinless. All of Adam's sons, now in the second Adam can understand David in Psalm 51 . Christ is our Righteousness and only hope. Pastor Willson served his generation and mine. Praise ye the Lord. Psalm 90:11-17
Jim Lincoln wrote: as Spurgeon pointed out, '...the State Church, which the great reformers had planted, and which some of them had watered with their blood, presented the spectacle which went far to justify the sarcasm of an eminent writer, that she possessed "A Popish Liturgy, a Calvinistic Creed, and an Arminian Clergy."'
This is not true. The great reformers never planted Prelacy they were vowed against it. There may be some truth in your statement about Prelacy, but it is mixed with a lie. I know of no true martyr who died defending the Anglican Church, but rather the contrary, the Covenanters were executed by the Prelates and the perfidious house of Stewart and there 'brethren' all looked the other way. The prefidious Independents vowed and did not pay, acting against a sect in the Scottish Military that violated there vows; Cromwell gained the upper hand executed the king having lied to the Scottish army. He then turned on the Scottish Presbyterians. Spurgeon as an Englsihman was also under vows to God as the posterity of the Covenanting Puritans who together with Independents and Congregationalists vowed and did not pay. Now that is a serious moral violation, because it is against God. Jim, you need to read some older history books
Dwayne wrote: Someone once said to me that public schools don't shape how your children think but hollywood and Nashville do! How careful we need to be to protect ourselves and our children from the evil that comes out of Hollywood and contaminates the people of North America! 1 Peter 5 8 Be sober be vigilant because your adversary the devil walkout about the earth seeking whom he may devour
I agree Dwayne so does the minster whose sermon I'm suggesting you might want to listen to. It was a sermon that helped me understand what the enemy looked like when trying to fight for the souls of my children against so many adversaries.
Rufus, I think you also would find it helpful and I'd appreciate your input if you do listen. http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=926072050502
Lurker wrote: Matthew Henry agrees with what you have presented; that is that "husband of one wife" can mean never having been divorced as well as meaning a monogamous marital status. I can't agree that two interpretations of the same verse can both be correct.
Sir, I believe the Scriptures of both the Old and New Testaments do speak to both and unless one is well versed in the law of God, he might forget that Jesus said not a jot or tittle would be removed from the law until all things be fulfilled. The law is written on the Christian's heart, but Judicial Gospel law in society is that which will reward those who do well and punish evil doers. The Church's discipline in tact would prevent much of today's error, scandal, and persecution, since much of it originates in the Gentile church Rev. 11:1-2. The walls of our Jerusalem have been broken down see Rutherford's Lex Rex and on our topic consider http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=83006115915 the young man is a friend and there is note worthy information from Scripture in this I believe, though I would differ on some things.
Ruth wrote: Lurker, I am sorry what I asked lacked clarity. The minister was not saying that these new converts could be Christian.
Ah, Again I lack clarity, misusing 'one' word that changes everything. I am a woman after all.
Self-correction: The Minister was not saying that these new converts could be ELDERS (is what I meant to say, instead of Christian). They didn't meet the criteria of being the husband of one wife. As Christians they would have to begin from where they were and grow in grace and the knowledge of God, obeying the truth as it is in Jesus. That same Jesus who is Lord and the Immutable God of both the Old and New Testament Scriptures.
jpw wrote: This is not the advancement of Christ. This is the work of the flesh.
jpw, Look beyond the intention of the Media here. Look in faith, at the prophetic Scripture. What I am trying to say, is that God is still on His throne and He is not taken by surprise, when HIS DECREES, SECRET to us, are expedited. I used Nebuchadnezzar as an example, because I had to 'apply this truth' in my own life. As a 'former' medical professional, I was brought to see the strong delusion I was under because of the present 'apostasy'. I learned this during a severe stroke of God's correction, on a mother during the life threatening illness of my son. I was reading my Bible in Daniel of God's humbling this powerful king, that He was using to correct his people. Then a young resident, who at first, was proud and arrogant, came to tell me, he had punctured my son's lung, pre-op. That night was only preparation for harder things to come. The long ordeal has changed my family forever, working all things together for good, ONLY for those who love God. 'My point': I believe the image of the beast or Nebuchadnezzar's image 'that effects all areas of our lives' will soon fall. See Daniel 2:34-35
There is no other true religion beside Biblically sound Christianity, based on the teachings of the apostles & prophets, Jesus Christ the head of the corner. It is a small thing for God either to overthrow Islam, as a false religion that is destroying the east or the stronghold of papal Rome in the west, or to restore the true Church. Then we will see the end of the great falling away from the truth, together with the conversion of the Jews, and a larger gathering of eastern gentile nations to Christ. I believe the prophetic Scriptures teach this. jpw, I am not endorsing any acts of men that are contrary to the Word of God. But Jesus Christ is even now on his Mediatorial throne and has been exalted to the Father's right hand since his ascension, until he makes all his enemies his footstool. He is Lord! We act on precept and judge based on what has been revealed. Deut.29:29 God is Sovereign over all his works and rules in the kingdoms of men. Nebuchadnezzar knew that and he was a heathen. http://covenanter.org/JRWillson/subjectionofkings.htm
Jim Lincoln wrote: But, ah, Ruth I guess I'll have to point out another sermon. I would also hope that you would realize, James 2 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all
Jim, I know and believe the 5 Solas & that God requires a God righteousness which no fallen man can ever offer to God because of original sin. That is why the Lord Jesus is called in the OT 'the Lord our Righteousness'. The law is our school master to bring us to Christ, "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace.."
We will fight the good fight of the faith against the world, the flesh and the devil until we depart to be with Christ, which is far better.
The Christian Sabbath was never abrogated in the NT. I believe its true purpose: Brethren feasting on the Life sustaining Word, a holy day foreshadowing our eternal rest is demonstrated by Christ, "But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of man is Lord even of the sa
Lurker, I am sorry what I asked lacked clarity. The minister was not saying that these new converts could be Christian. But he was speaking to the fact that it would mean different things to Jews then to newly converted Gentiles. It could mean seeing that polygamy was not God's intention for marriage and yet they needed to address it like all converted sinners from where they were, as Jim's link stated.
Two commandments violations brought up with frequency on this site are against the 6th and 7th commandment. On another thread what does the Bible teach about the use of alcohol and often divorce and remarriage is an issue. The opinions are as varied as the opinion holders and the divisions in the Gentile Church. I was thinking last night, James said if we break one commandment we break them all, yet I firmly believe to break first table commandments are more heinous because they are against God. That isn't spoken of as often, yet it troubles the Gentile Church.
Jim, I found somethings helpful and some things troubling in the first link. I grant I did not listen to the whole series, but it saddened me to think of the breakdown of church and state government that makes such sermons necessary among God's people, how little we differ from apostate Israel's back-sliding.