Dave wrote: Okay, Am so ashamed of my past still. But Thankyou John and mike,I was so embarrassed to share that but I must.be honest. The only street preaching I've seen its ray comfot on DVD and he was pretty good from what I saw though
Dave Please my brother I know what it is like to be ashamed of a sinful past and failures in the present
But know this according to Hebrews 2 the Lord Jesus Christ Himself is not ashamed to call you His brother
Here is an example of Paul Washer (famous for Shocking Youth Message) preaching open air
Dave wrote: I haven't no, I really feel a desire Do jjust that lately, funny you asked actually brother as it has been a regular discussion amongst our fellowship. I got a huge problem though John , ah I'm far from blameless and
Brother Saint Dave in that little Island a bit West of New Zealang
To me your humble thankful from the heart testimony to the Truth of God's word, is a better "preaching" of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ than the sophisticated intellecutal religius schlorship coming out of far too many modern day seminaries
IMHO and encouragement (trusting God is dealing with you in this) such a "message" of the reality and willingness of God to save sinners like us, is exactly what the Holy Ghost can use to speak to the hearts and minds of lost men and women to convict them Jesus is There and will be pleased to save them too.
2 Cor 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
Christopher000 wrote: I know there are a lot of hoaxters in this age of photoshop and video manipulation, but even NASA has released raw footage of the unexplained, unidentified objects entering our airspace in the 50's, outrunning military jets and making right angle turns to evade
Christopher000 Good post
Perhaps you have listened to the late Dr. Walter Martin on the subject
UFOs - Friend, Foe, or Fantasy - A Christian Perspective
I much appreciate the research / investigation he did on such things in his ministry
nat wrote: We do need the power of the holy spirit to be effective witnesses. It's so important especially now.
I was speaking to a friend who read a testimony of an ex witch and she shared how they would send people in infiltrate church and seduce the elders.they would fake their spiritual gifts and encourage others to do the same. So that it was about the look not what was inside. And so you get an empty hypocritical shell of Christianity within the church and it would fall apart as it is not based on Christ and Christ is not the Centre. Let us always keep Christ on the throne in our hearts!
nat in OZ and any other dear Pentecostal friends here.
nat has touched on something enormously important; spiritual gifts can be counterfeited / imitated
And the counterfeits can be used by Satan to infiltrate churches and ruin them from the inside
If memory serves me there is a propaganda piece/book, 'They Speak With Other Tongues' to accept RCs as genuine Christians (which they are NOT) because they spoke in tongues (with increased devotion to 'mary' and things Catholic)
And it is not just tongues that Satan abuses to slide corruption in On PURPOSE into church
We might do well to note that in such news reports God and His judgment against a determinedly rebellion and heinously evil society are stunningly forgotten, and men conveniently forget: "The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold (suppress) the truth in unrighteousness"
Blinding themselves to the repentance they so desperately need.
seen it right off wrote: There is no system in place to disciple Baptist churches.
Baptist should look into the Presbyterian form of government, of which I am now ????.
Seen I can well identify with the frustation of those seeing the sin and corruption in churches looking for a form of church government to fix things.
imho church governments fail because men don't fear God. We need the ministry of Prophets in our churches once again. I do not mean "fortune tellers" but men on fire for God like OT Prophets who continually proclaimed the Law of God to the people, urged men to obey God and warned of the consequences if they didn't
Think about it, many a man will be comfortable with this or that form of church government (even ones that become tyrannical)
but how many of us honestly want the blistering ministry of the genuine prophet of God who exposes our own hypocrisy and enmity against God in our attitudes, values and behavior and gets us off our self-righteous fences (excuses / comforts) to where we either repent and humbly return to a real obedience to God in our faith (ex real praying, real soul winning, real standing up and contending for the faith)?
Would we listen? willingly? humbly? and most importantly: obediently?
Dorcas wrote: Michael Hranek wrote: ...neither delight they will perish in hell... What true Christian would wish that? :shake head:
Dorcas You are entirely right what true Christian would ever wish such a thing. Here is a potential problem our churches are infested with both immature Christians and tares among the wheat, and they can corrupt us if we are not seriously on guard. Something I sadly have encountered first hand, and likely others here on SermonAudio have as well.
If you ever read or have read David Platt's book Radical, this kind of thing was one of the most heartbreaking experiences he encounter. Chapter 4 The Great Why of God pages 61,62
Really wrote: I was simply looking for a verse where Paul says what you say he says.
the context in 1 Cor 14 shows Paul prayed in the Spirit (unknown tongues) and he also prayed with the understanding
Got an errand to run Sorry, I missunderstood your question For me and what I try to encourage others in is that the context will help / show us what the words me far better than tearing them apart with definitions that fit our feelings (or prejudices) thanks
1 Cor 14:9-15 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. 11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. 12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding
Frank I hope you appreciate I am so in the learning process and am trying (imperfectly) to give a measure of honest sincere appreciation to flawed imperfect human beings who are trying to do the right thing.
For me I feel there is a difference between weakness (and ignorance) and out and out wilfull knowledgeable evil and determined wickedness AND at the present I would rather be pray for as President an imperfect Carly F than a determined enemy of God like Hilary C.
Here is where I am at. It is always the will of God that we love our enemies (friends too) and pray for them, that they be saved and become truly obedient to the Lord Jesus Christ. It is always the will of God that we seek Him with all our heart and sanctify God in our hearts to have rightful preeminence above all others (to be our fist love, our very reason for being and living)
To get back to the thread right now this (I hate to use the word) "church" in the news is our enemy and worse is an enemy of Christ. We need to pray and interceed for them, to love them with the love of Christ, NOT whitewash their sin, and Neither delight they will perish in hell or turn our head and act like that doesn't matter.
Frank wrote: Carly Fiorina is simply a Sarah Palin with a brain. That makes her much more dangerous by the way. I hope and pray she isn't successful.
Frank I am watching with interest the politics of the upcoming elections. Humanly Speaking I pretty much like many very IMPERFECT and FLAWED people (Oops they might be very much like me, and need the Lord Jesus Christ every bit as much as I needed and still need Him)
Here is why I am watching "politics" ... it tells me a lot about where people are coming from, helping me in communicating the Gospel of Christ to them in words they can get ahold of.
CF's quote seemed like a starting point', a parallel if you will, to address us as Christians to how serious the fight we are in is. Politicans are infamous for gripping about the other guy and at the same time unwilling to fight for what is right ... kind of like "church" people.
I trust that God is sovereign and can use imperfect and flawed people in government for our good, or for the consequences our sins deserve. Sorry to ramble so much. Please do vote for whoever you feel led to and I'll do the best to do the same myself.
Really really? I tell you what if you really want to know look it up for yourself Please I am seeking to be kind to you because if I tell you that is nothing, well maybe a little something, but if God tells you than that is SOMETHING and that ought to means so much more to you. Blessings
Mike wrote: I agree, Michael. I'm just wondering how speaking to God in a closet, in an unknown language, without an interpreter to tell him what he was saying, is what Paul meant?
Mike In my humble observation the way out of debating the Holy Ghost and in entering into the experiential knowing of Him and His present day minsitry is in getting to know Him, in seeking Him, in desiring Him and His ministry in our lives. He after all lives whether we like it our not lives in evey born again believer
Again for the child of God, He is our greatest ally in living for Jesus Christ, the best friend we could every have in having and living in genuine Biblical faith
I believe there is an aspect to our faith the Holy Ghost knows far better than we do, "We must get to Jesus at all costs!"
Mike wrote: Matthew 6:6 "But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly." If you're speaking to God in private, as we are informed we should, it should be clear there is no need to use any but your own language.
Really? 1 Cor 14 18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
Did Paul get it wrong? In private he apparently prayed in an unknown tongue.
PLEASE DO NOT MISSUNDERSTAND ME. I am not posting to say you need to speak in other tongues. I am posting to say once agains ALL OF US DESPERATELY NEED the Present Day MINISTRY of the PERSON of the HOLY GHOST, His Power, AND HIS GIFTS as He sees fit to give them in our lives, in every part of them, not just Church on Sunday morning.
editting We should treat the Holy Ghost, as our greatest Ally and the very best Friend we could ever have in living for Jesus Chirst (not somekind of distant relative we just talk about like He is not even in the room)
nat wrote: Thank you Michael. That was encouraging.
nat you are most welcome and thank you as well I am always encourage by those who have a faith that seeks to truly know Jesus Christ and out of love for Him to serve Him with all the grace God would bring into their lives
imho this is exactly what churches / Christians reap because we failed to stand up for the Truth and be about our Father's business of real prayer (not perfunctory) and real soul winning.
To everyone here, myself included we, and let's get this right, we ourselves need repentance, a fresh obedience to Jesus Christ
a whole lot more than we griping about how bad this church is (and it is bad worse than we might imagine the apostasy in this former SBC church)
Paraphrasing Carly Florina: TODAY is going to be a fight between who are truly genuine Biblical Christians faithful to Jesus Christ and those pretend Christians in our midst the wolves disquised as sheep who are seeking to destroy Biblical Christianity from within our own churches. WE NEED Christians who are going to wear the full armor of God and fight every enemy of righteousness throwing the entire Truth of God into the battle to win souls, not just give little non-offensive bits and pieces of the Word of the Living God, Disciples who do not give up in cowardice and compromise before they even reach the battle line
nat wrote: I'm not arguing the necessity of tongues.
nat in OZ Quite the "discussion" going on. imho the bottom line whether men like it or not is: We desperately need the PERSON of the HOLY GHOST, His indwelling (new birth / regeneration, sealing as belonging to Jesus Christ), His filling and His present day ministry in the life of a child of God (He will teach us, lead us, empower us to glorify Jesus Christ and be about the will of God, our Father in our lives).
We do NOT need the traditions and what appear to be the so scholarly teachings of men that sabotage genuine Bilbical experiencial faith mishandling the word of God (wilfully or unintentionally) because of the prejudice of men against the Supernatural (natural men do NOT accept the things of the Spirit of God and cannot know them if they are not first born again of the Spirit, see John 3)
story: I had an old timey Pentecostal man ask, 'Are you trying to get to heaven?' And I missunderstood him at first. He wasn't talking about salvation, He was talking about pursuing the fullness of God, the kingdom of God, the Righteous, Peace and Joy, the power of God in prayer and soul winning, and for victory in spiritual battles.
Lurker wrote: You obviously take OT circumcision literally
but lets not let it detract from the present discussion of speaking in tongues.
Lurker Wow! If I had been an OT Gentile who converted and became a Jew, circumcision would have been a very literal thing (and of course for each male descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. (Yes! With a very spiritual side in those who had faith)
Now as to tongues I so appreciate Tim Conway's honest thorough dealing with the subject
Lurker wrote: NT baptism is the same as OT circumcision.
OT circumcision was preformed upon a male child by his parents (now technically a full grown man could have chosen to become a Jew and therefore to endure the dicomfort of circumcision, not have it preformed on him by his parents)
NT Believer's Baptism (Immersion) of adults and those old enought to understand to Receive Jesus Christ as Lord and be identified with Him upon a profession of personal faith in Christ is therefore quite different from baby baptism (sprinkling)