Mike wrote: Is it possible that Franklin would not have spoken out against his father's statements because he loved his father deeply and didn't want to shame the man who loved and reared him for years, pouring into his life? I'm just saying that I would be careful making litmus tests for genuine conversion on the basis of choices of weakness; Christ saves us by His mercy and grace, in spite of our own lapses in judgment, does he not? It may be that Franklin's love for his own father, right or wrong, clouded his judgment and we should at least allow him that and not judge his motives or condemn him for it.
No one knows why FG supported his father in the areas that were non-christian. It is not our place to guess why someone sins or give credence to their sin. Anyway, the below touch on that issue.
And of course now that BG is dead, do you think FG will repent of his support of his father's ecumenicalism?
Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
I have zero respect for Hybels and his ministry because he is part of Rick Warrenâ€™s purpose driven emergent church movement.
But let me take this opportunity to be somewhat controversial. Why is it that the women who have affairs with pastors are the victims and the pastors are the predators? My guess is this article only notes adult woman who were not raped and not some young woman who might be swayed by some authoritative figure.
There is no difference between the spiritual responsibility of a woman, married or unmarried, to remain sexually pure than a pastorâ€™s to remain sexually pure. Seldom is there any real condemnation regarding the females involved. A pastor or deacon should be removed from office, but clearly the sinfulness of what was done is the same.
1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1 Timothy 3:11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
This forum is an extremely poor place to try and prove or disprove a particular rapture position. I know from the past that the opinions run the gamut of possibilities. Much depends on the hermeneutics that someone uses. Some take things literally and others take those same things figuratively.
Now for the sake of disclosure, I will give my positions. I believe in a post-tribulation rapture and a pre-millennial reign of Christ. I am ready and willing to argue the rapture position, but not my millennial thoughts. I am stating this in case there are others who share the post-tribulation position but are reluctant to say this publicly. Intimidation does in fact exist on a forum such as this.
So, if anyone wants to discuss my rapture position, my email is available to them. I wrote a 25 page meditation on that subject, so my thoughts are readily available.
Carol wrote: As a Christian lady I whole heartily agree with Frank's comment. The rotten fruit from feminism is alive and well in homes and churches across this nation. I praise the Lord for the grace and mercy bestowed upon me to have my blind eyes open and to follow my Lord on the narrow road, and by His Grace try to be the godly woman that He commands me to be.
Thanks Carol! And you are one that I thank God for who post on this forum. I have learned from you as I'm sure others have as well.
Watcher, Tim and Chris, Your comments have been excellent as well. Thanks for your fellowship.
Watcher wrote: It seems the finger is now being pointed at the men for being dirty, lustful sinners. Whatever happened to celebrating a man's desire to remain pure? That's feminism for you.
The spirit of Jezebel is alive and well in this world. Unsaved women have used sex and lust to drive their personal/worldly agendas since the fall in the Garden. And what is most disturbing is that evangelical feminists will give credence to the feminine movements around the world, albeit in subtle ways. Women are generally considered victims and not those who actually caused themselves to be victims by their distorted worldviews.
I thank God for the women who post on this forum whose goals are to learn and to encourage male Christians. And of course they learn by asking questions and making comments that we all learn from. Now I know that many women who post here have compartmentalized their Christian walks and they can no longer discern when they are driven by the Jezebel spirit.
Men are the only ones who can understand the lust that affects their walk with the Lord and what causes it - period.
Watcher wrote: It never is the woman's fault is it? We all have responsibility to act in a circumspect way that is glorifying to God. There's no excuse. We as Christians are supposed to live at a higher standard than the world. Hence why our lights are supposed to be shining into the darkness. This is yet another example of a false-convert living life the way she wants to, and using her 'liberty in Christ' to do so. But of course, it seems very few people can see this. Thank God we can. I would hate to be blinded to the truth like the others. It's saddening to see.
Since I made it clear that I blamed the parents more than this young lady for the actual molestation, let me add the below paragraph to my thoughts.
Letâ€™s take a quick look at Christian parenting. My guess is that the vast majority of Christians will say they are against feminism. Now I wonder how many of these parents have told their daughters they were proud of them for their biblical female traits; gentleness, quietness, modesty and the desire to be wives, homemakers and mothers. Or do they tell them they are proud of them for their intelligence, their beauty and their independence and ability to earn independent livings?
Watcher wrote: I will go record here to say that what happened to this woman and the others is atrocious. It's wrong and I hope the man involved gets prosecuted to the full extent of the law. That being said, this woman still has a testimony and is still representing Christ. Others look to her as a role model and she can also be considered a stumbling block if her actions are sinful. Okay...some people may, by the grace of God or physiology, have no problem with girls strutting around on a stage in second skin, but SOME DO. We are commanded not to become a stumbling block to our weaker brethren. We are commanded to refrain from the very appearance of evil. We are commanded to come out of the world not be like them. So what if she has a "great testimony", I have heard of others who have had great testimonies and they are no more saved than the devil.Years ago, 'Strippers For Jesus' made the headlines. They also had great testimonies. We are to be judged by our fruit. And one day this woman will be judged for her lifestyle. I wonder how she will defend herself?
She will say she was simply dressed the way other female gymnasts dressed and she had a special talent to pursue. She will then add, it wasn't her fault if those evil men lusted after her.
Kat wrote: Heâ€™s right but if he truly felt that way then heâ€™d stop giving half a billion dollars to PP every year. Iâ€™m so angry about this. That was one of his campaign promises and I feel like heâ€™s broken it.
Yes, it seems obvious that Trump getting a budget passed surpassed his desire to save the lives of the helpless.
My tax dollars are still going to those who â€świllâ€ť murder these innocent lives. I remember when Trump was running he said that abortion should be made illegal and punishable. The questioner asked him whether that meant the women undergoing an abortion should be punished. Like the immoral buffoon he is, Trump said yes. But, in the next couple of days he corrected that to say women should not be punished for obtaining an abortion. What he was basically saying was he didnâ€™t need the abortionistâ€™s vote, but needed the women who were murdering their childrens vote.
double-tongued marked by deliberate deceptiveness especially by pretending one set of feelings and acting under the influence of another.
Well Angela, it appears you are simply compartmentalizing things. A woman can show her butt during a sports activity, but going to the store with the same outfit would be wrong. And no this is not some sort of rabbit trail or nitpicking. 99 percent of men who watch female gymnastics would have lust in their hearts. That is part of the depraved natures of men.
Do you think that is proper or are you going to simply play the feminist game and say it is solely the menâ€™s faults and not the womenâ€™s fault? If a woman gets molested or raped partially because of their conduct, are you saying they are blameless? No one has hinted that it would be all the womanâ€™s fault, but clearly there is blame to share.
The fact that you and your husband can watch those events and your husband is not bothered is irrelevant to the discussion.
Leave 500 dollars in cash on your front seat and don't lock the car doors. You may find a difference, but there isn't any. Yes, the thief took the money, but were you culpable to some extent? YES.
From things I have read over the years, it is also true that Christians smuggle themselves into North Korea and spread the gospel. Most of that sort of thing doesnâ€™t get publicity because it would certainly end up in the imprisonment and/or death of those missionaries and their contacts. There is no place on this earth where Christians do not go and spread the gospel. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is infinitely more powerful than some silly dictator and his minions.
If our Lord wants someone to hear the gospel, then they will in fact hear the gospel. And what an eternal blessing it would be to suffer for the sake of the gospel by death or imprisonment.
I thank God that He has raised up soldiers to serve Him; unafraid and not entangled in the affairs of this world.
Watcher wrote: So did/does the devil. So did Hitler. So does every televangelist. What's your point? Still doesn't fix the problem of your soul.
John Yurich is certainly a character that is for sure. I normally refer to him as the parrot because he repeats the same mantra over and over. I have thought he was a catholic troll because he has the same exchanges on another Christian forum and all of the divisiveness on both forums centers around his receiving the catholic communion while claiming to be a believer. The mere fact that he does that on 2 different forums says a lot. So, whatever his reasons and character make-up are, he certainly isnâ€™t innocent in these exchanges.
Why someone would want to be so divisive especially on a Christian forum is beyond me. Who does he edify?
It is also true that the only one who has ever accepted his testimony on this forum was SteveR. Why would all of us reject his claim to Christianity and why would he still participate on such a forum is also beyond me.
In conclusion, all of us will deal with him differently. IMO, he is not all there mentally and regardless of his reasoning, his only goal is to sow discontent.
Watcher wrote: My wife finally Googled her and found that she is a "Christian gymnast". Yes, former gymnast mind you, but she is still involved in that world. How can someone have a testimony of being a Christian and wear second skinned clothing and behave in such a fashion? There is NOTHING glorifying to God or pleasing about being a gymnast.
Very good comment brother. I have often wondered the same thing about these female gymnasts. Their butts are hanging out. What Christian does that?
Christopher000 wrote: Frank Wrote: "...Of course I have no way of knowing why the parents were silent, but it could easily be that they wanted fame and fortune for their daughters and to remain silent was the way to obtain this." Hi Frank, this has always been my conclusion. Just consider the sheer number of charges against this man, and the number of girls over time who he abused and finally came forward once he was exposed and indicted. Also though, there were parents in the very early years who complained of abuse, after the things their kids described to them. Interestingly, this doctor went before the board to answer to the charges, and explained away the molestation, as necessary medical procedures. Seems this man had done some research into, most likely, unorthodox methods, as his weapon against any potential outrage, etc. My opinion, anyway. Anyway, the board cleared him each time, so I'm thinking that any future complaints were simply dismissed after that, after having already been resolved and deemed as being necessary and medically appropriate.
Thanks Chris, I didn't know most of what you wrote. But, the parents should have complained and if nothing was done, they should have stopped their children from the program.
I mentioned this once before on a similar article about these gymnasts. It would appear that many if not most of these young women understood that what was being done to them was wrong. IOW, this young lady in another article talked about the pain, disgust and personal embarrassment she experienced during these episodes. So, to me it is inconceivable that the majority of these women didnâ€™t discuss what was taking place with their parents. I have not read about any parent going to the authorities and filing any charges against this man. Even if they were ignored by the authorities, their children would have been withdrawn from the gymnast program.
Of course I have no way of knowing why the parents were silent, but it could easily be that they wanted fame and fortune for their daughters and to remain silent was the way to obtain this. IOW, they are just as guilty as any other folks involved with this.
I am somewhat familiar with the border crossings of previous communist countries in Europe. I remember in Berlin East Germany, it was surrounded by a mine field and if someone attempted to cross they were shot or blown up. In other parts they sometimes attempted to cross via rivers, etc. But, if noticed they were shot on sight. They didnâ€™t stop and question or vet those who were attempting to cross. That included those trying to leave East Germany or some foolish person who wanted to enter illegally.
Romania and Czech. also had armed border guards who patrolled the borders and they also shot first. And to the best of my knowledge, China and other communist countries still do that today.
So, IMO, whatever Trump does will be mild. I believe that â€śallâ€ť illegal aliens should be arrested and deported and illegal border crossings should be stopped by whatever means is necessary. How can someone have a sovereign nation without it being sovereign?
IMO, the main reason is many pastors donâ€™t take the word of God seriously and pick and choose what to obey and what not to obey.
I also think that â€śmanyâ€ť pastors are simply hirelings. What that means is they are more interested in protecting their incomes and their retirement incomes. If that is true, then if they discipline someone, that person and that personâ€™s friends are likely to leave the church. Fewer members of course means less income; less income will put the pastorâ€™s job in jeopardy. It is the same reason why pastors are reluctant to speak out against feminism. Women make up the majority of attendees and in most families the women determine which church to attend.
IMO, church has become more a house of social fellowship and a feel good mentality and not a house of worship.
Now for full disclosure, I attended church faithfully for over 25 years and have not attended for around 10 years. Before someone gets argumentative, I think it is wonderful when Christians can get together and worship our Lord and Savior.
So, please argue the points I made and not the reason for making them.