Michael Hranek wrote:
told him: 1 & 2 you've got to get God to elect and predestin you. 3 & 4 you've got to get yourself a gospel and an inward call 5 somehow you've got to get yourself regenerated 6, 7 8 9 ONLY THEN can you repent and believe, be justified, sanctified and glorified

You didn't think that Paul had the "power" over the jailor at this point did you? Ask yourself the question, "Where was God when all this was going on?" And "Did the Lord have to wait for Paul to 'act' and the jailor to change his sinful, enmity against God, (Ro 8.7) mind, to accept the Lord?

Does God have to wait for sinners to love Him, when they are "dead in sin" or does God wait for NO man?

Michael Hranek wrote:
Regeneration before and apart from repentance and faith? I don't think so

Are you suggesting Regeneration AFTER faith???

Is that "faith" before being born again???

Faith is a human faculty???

Is this "salvation by works" - I see before me???

Ooooohhh Noooo!!!

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward WHO BELIEVE, ACCORDING TO THE WORKING OF HIS MIGHTY POWER."

Michael Hranek wrote:
Secondly, it is "baptist-type" believers who retain a continual history of personal NOT Institutional faith, believers baptism NOT Infant Sprinkling, believing the Bible the Authoritative Word of God NOT so called Sacred Tradition AND CERTAINLY NOT Spiritual Whoredome of joining Church and State

Now don't forget the Baptist Denom has, by now, been "Institutionalised" since its inception in 1521. Time itself has seen to that.

As for "infant sprinkling" this after all is the Biblical method and anyway why do you discriminate against babies?
God doesn't and HE administers the real baptism, doesn't He.
The only reason you have for "believers dunking" is that you demand human declaration to other mortals, as part of your ritual, - rather than complete trust in God for His elect.

Remember Michael
"the ordo salutis is 1) election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification. (Rom 8:29-30)"

Jim Lincoln wrote:
(From Dr Robert a Joyner)
I believe it is misguided for fundamental Baptists to defend a version of the Bible based on a Greek text, prepared by a liberal Roman Catholic, translated by Episcopalians and authorized by a king who hated Baptists. While they reject translations based on a Greek text approved by all the great scholars and early fundamental leaders and translated by good Bible believing scholars from all groups, including Baptists.... This irony is strange indeed when fundamental Baptists take sides with Episcopalians and Catholics and reject their own.

GOD Himself used the KING JAMES VERSION for four centuries and continues to save HIS elect by this same means today.

Mike wrote:
Of course the existing church that was desired to be reformed was the RC version, which reminds us how the Reformation didn't quite reform enough. Restoration, not reformation, is what was needed. Putting clean socks on dusty feet was never a great idea. The Anabaptists may have been right.

Daft idea!!

In point of fact if you go back to the 16th century the term "anabaptist" was used by many to embrace loads of different heretical groups. So which group are the Lutherans aiming at?
Can't be the Baptists? - They don't come from "anabaptist" origins!! Do they??

Mike wrote:
So your daughter was born again of the Spirit before she was 3 years of age, for she was reading Scripture, a spiritual book, and as you have said, it is not possible for the natural man to understand it. That's most unusual.

Michael Hranek wrote:
Neither the KJV nor even the much maligned NIV says such a thing.
TYVM
Now the word of God does say:
quote.....

.....show me a baby who believes according to Romans 10:9,10 and I say sure we ought to baptize them by immersion....Now have you ever seen an infant believe?
Further the word of God teaches parent to bring their children up in the discipline and admonition of the Lord...it is kind of silent on going through any kind of Catholic religious ritual

Now that takes care of the age problem you have - so there is no need for you to discriminate against babies.

A verbal declaration to other mortals is not required according to Scripture. As for God - He elects them in the first place and reads hearts.

Circumcision has now been replaced by baptism and the girls are now included.

Michael Hranek wrote:
Really don't matter what you think, John. It matters immensely what God Himself says and teaches in His word.
TYVM

Gen 9:7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.

and don't forget....

Psalm 127:3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

Lurker wrote:
A] Not a dunker or a sprinkler. To my knowledge I've never been baptised by anyone but the Lord and that with living water.

B] God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God (1 Pet 3:21)
Saved by H2O?

Lurker wrote:
1] Tell us about this water. Is it the type of water that if one drinks he will thirst again or never thirst again? Does it come from the fountain

2] I don't want to sound uncharitable but I believe you Presby fellas are plagued with the same absurd literalism as the rc's and their treatment of the flesh and blood of Jesus.

3] no amount of tap water can do what the Lord has reserved unto Himself:
And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart,

1] It's just plain old H2O. What is it you guys use? Perhaps because you require so much, you use H3O?

2] The Covenant God started with Abraham is still extant today. The new covenant is new, as contrasted with Moses, but NOT as contrasted with Abraham or Adam. Baptism has replaced circumcision on command of Christ. Age has not been changed anywhere in Scripture thus infant Baptism is Biblical. What God was able to achieve in Covenant with the sign and seal of circumcision, HE is still able to achieve with baptism. Surprising that isn't it.

John UK wrote:
Acts 2:38-39 KJV
#1 Repent and (then) be baptised.
#2 Then receive the promise of THE HOLY GHOST, with remission of sins.
#3 This promise is unto ALL, with this qualification - ALL THAT GOD CALLS
#4 Note that when Peter spake these words, he believed that this promise was solely for his fellow Jews.

As for your insistance that the sinner must DO SOMETHING to qualify and autheticate baptism....then need I say John - ye olde "Arminian" again???

#1/#2. Peter is speaking about adults in a missionary circumstance, which is a different thing. BUT When the Parents are ALREADY in Covenant with God, - THEN their children are brought into the SAME Covenant, as Bible teaches by the element of water, and no age discrimmination or profession is posited.

#3 God's calling is effectual in the Elect whether they get wet or not. If God had to wait until the sinner did something then HE would wait an eternity.

savedbygrace wrote:
P. Resby,
You confirmed my post.
Please reread it!

savedbygrace wrote:
especially when all "Biblical examples" of N.T. baptism are by those old enough to believe.)

Can you please inform all of us what the ages of Lydia's household were.?

"And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other"

Can you please inform all of us what the ages of Stephanas's household were?

John UK wrote:
How do you get from circumcising ALL Jews, to baptising babies of believers?

Oh alright I'll be a bit more specific this time John.

Now God started the Covenant of Grace with Abraham.
We are in the same Covenant today. "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,)"

God told Abraham, quote; "And he that is EIGHT DAYS OLD shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed."

Now the MODE of sign and seal has changed (by Jesus) to Baptism by sprinkle/effusion, as you know. - BUT the age was NEVER changed.

John UK wrote:
#1 Where did you find this 'command of God'?
#2 Where did you find this 'covenant with God'.
#3 What exactly is this 'covenant with God'.
#4 How old do the children of believers have to be
#5 If parents became Christians in their old age, would their elderly children
#6 If unsaved parents began attending a Presby church, would their children be baptised?
#7 If no, is this not discrimination?
#8 explain the confusion and arrogance of young Presbys
#9 Is not the WCF catechism responsible for neglecting ....work of the Spirit, by focussing on the intellect faculty?
#10 Do you really believe in election?
#11 Would your church really have baptised a NT Esau?

You appear to be confused as to the "effect" of baptism, John.

John UK wrote:
#1 And what exactly do these unbiblical words 'brings a child (saved or unsaved) into the covenant and the church' mean?
#2 If baptism is the antitype of circumcision, what is the antitype of the Israelite?
#3 your system baptises folks even before they make a profession, thereby imposing YOUR will .... and taking away their human right

3] God ordained circumcision as the first sign and seal of His Covenant. You will find that 'NO' profession was required by the 8 day old child at that time.
As for your concern over human rights?? (What about your discrimmination by age and ability to profess)
Again obedience to God's command does not infringe human rights. Obedience to His command brings our children into covenant with God, which any loving Christian parent would seek for their young!