You have to understand who Jesus was talking to, but it still applies to us. It's important because it is important to be accurate. Jesus was talking to Jews about those who believed in Him and those lost sheep which were going to believe in Him. The Gentiles weren't even lost sheep, how could they be? They weren't yet granted repentance.
I'm just saying the country of Israel exist and the reason the Palestinians seem to be in the mess they are is because of their general support for terrorism.
For Jesus to say he died for His sheep there doesn't exclude any future people He died for. The reason Jesus used future tense was because He wasn't yet through with His ministry. After He said those words Jesus went beyond the Jordan and to Bethany to raise Lazarus. He was still bringing His sheep into the fold.
These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: â€śDo not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 10:5â€-â€¬6
You are trying to equate believers who weren't aware that Jesus was resurrected to unbelievers who are supposedly unable to believe the gospel? Wouldn't it be better to just believe what the Bible says, that God loves the world and sent His Son to die for the sins of the world, especially to those who believe and how will they believe on Him unless the hear and how will they hear unless someone is sent to preach the gospel?
Gentiles were lost in their sin until after Jesus ascended to Heaven. It is later that Peter had his vision about unclean meat and went and preached to Gentiles. It was then Christians realized that God granted repentance to the Gentiles also.
Jesus died for the whole world, especially for those who believe. However, Jesus was talking to Jews in John 10 about other believers He Himself was going to bring into the fold. He didn't go preach to the Gentiles, in any of their cities! He even says He wasn't sent for the Gentiles, but to the lost sheep of Israel. He helped heal a couple Gentiles after some prodding, that's it. The Gospel of John was written so that Gentiles would believe. It was written after Jesus had gone to Heaven.
Peter was already a believer in Jesus when He called him to be a Fisher of men. So how did God reveal to Peter that He was the Christ? Peter would not have known by just looking at Jesus. Peter knew from the word of God backed up by His miracles.
Jesus answered them, â€śI told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Fatherâ€™s name, they bear witness of Me.
Jesus answered them, â€śMany good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?â€ť
If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.â€ť John 10:25â€, â€¬32â€-â€¬32â€, â€¬37â€-â€¬38
It's a pretty accurate description of what you believe for sure.
You do realize that Simon Peter and Andrew already knew Jesus and believed? It wasn't like they were just following a stranger. Nonetheless, it was Jesus calling and they obeyed. Just not an "effectual" calling as you claimed.
Just like Jesus did before, He sends out the preaching of His gospel. Otherwise, people would not audibly hear it and be able to believe. For how can they believe if they haven't heard? So Jesus calls many through the preaching of the Gospel and then a few who believe are elected unto eternal life. God only ordains those who believed.
You are admitting to rationalizing what you don't understand. Jesus said He calls His sheep, therefore you are reckoning it to mean an inaudible thing, like a burning in the bossom where you just kind of know. Unfortunately, for you, it doesn't say any such thing as that. If we are going to fill in wholes where none belong, you might as well say Jesus was talking about real sheep that He owned! There isn't any justification for such nonesense. Just like there isn't any for His call wasn't audible. Why do you think He went into all of the Jewish regions with the gospel message? He even brought the Twelve Apostles for help to reach all of them. It is because they could not believe unless they heard.
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14
Another thing taken out of context, the Jews at that time were just as bad as anyone else. They were not seeking God's will, they all went astray from what they knew to be right. That doesn't mean they could not repent and believe.
The promise of eternal life was to those there on the day of Pentecost, to their children and all who were afar off at that time. There is no limit to the call. Is there?
So who are the as many as the Lord our God will call? Everyone else that gets called also. If the promise of eternal salvation belonged to all people at that time, then it must also belong to me, my children, and all who are afar off from me now!
The gospel has gone into all of the world so if they haven't heard, they will.
But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: â€śTheir sound has gone out to all the earth, And their words to the ends of the world.â€ť Romans 10:18
Who are the other sheep? They aren't Gentiles! You are sounding Mormon again. Is there a lost gospel where Jesus goes to the Gentiles? That's what the Book of Mormon is about! You know Satan isn't very original. He continues some of the same lies from Islam, to Calvinism, to Mormonism.
We are talking about the calling of eternal life and not one's calling of service.
Even as many as God will call after you, your children and all who are afar off are called! All those who were alive at that time and all men from that point on. You know, shame on you for loving Calvinism more than God's word!
You accuse me of being humanist? How so, because God expects us to call on Him and to be saved?
I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Philippians 3:14
For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.â€ť Acts 2:39
How many will the Lord our God call? You, your children, and all who are afar off!
Again, Romans 8:30 is a description of what happened in a person's life who believed. It doesn't mean the gospel was excluded from those who did not believe or will not believe. They to are called and none of them are chosen (elected) because they do not believe. As I suspected, you cannot show God revealing to us anywhere in scripture the doctrine of a external and internal call. It's just a call and that's all it is.
I don't see what is alternate about those verses. It agrees with the rest of scripture!
Yes, you would and do say that. However, it is just to prop up Calvinism because there is no mention of an external or internal calling in scripture. Is this the part you say, "Yeah, but there isn't a mention of the Trinity either!" At least the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is mentioned. There is no such distinction to be found in our upward calling. Neither external or internal.
2 Peter 1:10 KJV (10) Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
These people are brethren, he is not admonishing unbelievers to make there calling and election sure. It is saying that believers should be fruitful in this life and the will receive an abundance of blessings in the life to come.
â€śFor many are called, but few are chosen.â€ť Matthew 22:14
Not everyone who has been called has been justified.
Acts 2:39 KJV For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
The promise is for you, your children, and all who are afar off. There is no limit to His calling except that it isn't simultaneous to everyone at once.
Romans 8:30 says that all believers are called, that doesn't exclude other people. It is an accurate description of what happened to those who have believed.
Many people believed in Jesus since the times of Jesus, but many more have believed since than. That doesn't limit the word many to just a few. Point being, many can be all inclusive and seems to be the best explanation in MT 22:14.
Psalm 69 says that God will save Zion. I'm not sure I am following how that means God has broke His promises to Israel?
The Jews bought up unused lands and then wanted to form a nation where their people have been for ages. Look at all of the other newer countries that have been formed since then. You have no problem with Azerbaijan, do you? Why Israel?
Where does the Bible say that God limits His call? If many are called and few chosen, that must mean some called are not chosen because they would not believe.
Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, â€śMen and brethren, what shall we do?â€ť Then Peter said to them, â€śRepent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.â€ť Acts 2:37â€-â€¬39
I see this verse really set you off into your Calvinist mantra! I see almost none of that here. Are we talking about the same verses?!
This is what happened:
1) The men were unbelievers. 2) The Apostles went out and preached the gospel. 3) The men showed conviction. Where does conviction come from? The preaching of God's Word. 4) Peter tells them what they must do to be saved. 5) Peter adds that the promise of remission of sins is for them, their children, and all men.
I don't know if the word "call" set you off, but remember the promise is to all, so all will be called. Many are called, but few are chosen (elected).