friends of mine have seen the violent side. masochism -- violence toward each other, really I can't imagine people living long living like that.... I used to not understand Sodom and Gomorrah and their aggressiveness going door to door. now I undertstand it. by its nature is predatory, for they will have to find young men to bring into these things... and so the cycle of abuse continues. I wonder why Christians are on the defensive on this!?!
ah, I guess it doesn't matter, this is part of dismantling the country, as is being done by groups coming in. Weinstein who says that the sharing of the gospel to his sons, and telling them that talking about hell is "antisemitism" and he pushes policy as an atheist into the military.
time to step back and see how this is happening. Christian leaders have gone silent....
"Anyone who is prepared to say that all this ended with the apostolic age, and that there has never been a miracle since the apostles, is making a most daring statement. Not only is there nothing in the Scripture to say that all these miraculous gifts had to end with the apostolic age; the subsequent history of the church, it seems to me, gives the lie direct to this very contention."
Martyn Lloyd Jones, "The Baptism and Gifts of the Holy Spirit"
I am to base my understanding of manifestations of the Holy Spirit on what holy rollers on tv do?
Isn't that counterproductive?
Does everyone who is cessationist on here actually believe that when Paul spoke in tongues it looked like the false signs and wonders on tv?
we need a biblical analysis of these chapters, not a cutting away, in order to understand what the real thing was.
I'm having trouble locating it, but Pastor Sam Storms has an actual line by line look at these verses. Will try to post.
In 1 Cor 14, Paul is actually downplaying the role of tongues in a corporate sense because it edifies the indl and not others around. Prophecy is the exhortation and admonishment of the people and is desperately needed today. An example might be someone who has discerned that a gentleman is drinking heavily and is admonished that this will cause great harm to his family. This, of course, should be done privately, other issues from 14 could be public such as praying about our participation in abortion and a need to repent.
So without prophecy, we are left with exhortation alone, feel good-ism.... does that sound like any churches today?
I'm not saying I have all the answers and am resisting the urge to go verse by verse, because it shouldn't come from me.
John UK -- I shall not be cutting out 1 Cor 12-14 out of my bible! remember, when the american theologians bring new ideas and ask me to cut out the bible with scissors...?? I use tape and put it back in. I see no preferable model to today's church than the New Testament church as directly taught by the great Apostles. Good day!
the point I'm making, and I've been pondering this for quite awhile...
is that Mac should repent of his spiritual leadership regarding Iq.
the premises we have found to be untruthful, and by perpetuating that we were in the right, based on these premises continues on today.
the diaspora and martydom of hundreds of thousands of Christians. neither the conservatives and their foolish leaders nor the liberals and their foolish leaders will repent and stop this drunken spiritual fest, but blame the other for the terrible woes...
I read an article written by him recently, in which he defended his position still. I would like to know what philosophies he holds that puts some idea or agenda above the lives of innocents, especially Christians.
remember, we were told this was for the good of the innocent.
the final straw was seeing B and O and McC sit in front of the camera before that election, and spout the need for the bailouts. we watched trillions upon trillions in the next few years. it began with a united endorsement.
Christians better wake up. And I don't mean so they can have prosperity again, but what will God do with a generation that celebrated as their brethren fell under the iron fist?
I repented in sorrow for putting God's name on filthy lucre.
1517 wrote: JPW, If Iraq wasn't God's will, what was Iraq? Nothing happens outside of God's will.
...sure, it was "God's will", in the Sovereignty kind of sense, like Stalin and Hitler.
But Stalin and Hitler were not Christians. And they have faced God Almighty when they passed away.
However, Mac has told the nation that George Bush is a Christian... (strangely I have yet to see one confession from him and miss conservative wife, the week after his term was over went on MSM and announced she was really prochoice all along)
this is a refusal of nice gentlemen like you to look at the facts.
and it is in our face everyday in the news now. Putin announces this week, why would he accept the wests support of those who attack an army and take out their organs on camera. (sorry for the graphics). there's beheadings on the streets.
the boys are bussed in! trained as jihadists and paid! then thrown into society! then the martyring begins. what is there to understand? I've provided links to Cong as bipartisan they openly admit Christians are getting killed.
what a strange theology to blame man's sinful choices on a Holy, Rightouess God.
so where is this "sign gift" list so I may not sin against God?
shall it be cursed that my friend was given a word of knowledge on my behalf (not even seeking to do so) while praying, giving me great help that led to saving my life and family? shall I repent?
or the missionary who is given a word of knowledge in prayer not to go a particular place, and as I've heard find out from a later convert that they were planning an attack on him that night? should he repent of receiving a word of knowledge?
or the muslem who dreams about a missionary, to heed him to listen and then later meets him and receives Christ, should he repent of his dream?
1- what about 1 cor 14 and legitimate tongues? Pentecost? what is the biblical description?
2- tongues is not listed in 1 cor 12 as a charisma but a phanerosis. subsequent to 1 cor 12:7 -- "for all" -- and how can "all" be deduced to just the Apostles?
and MH -- no, this is not necessarily a tongues issue for me as well. those seeking experiential faith will be disappointed. I guess people picture the counterfeits in their mind, and yet everyone who claims Christ, in my mind, has had a supernatural experience, becuase being born again .... is ... supernatural, I guess I just look at things differently. good day all.
"Now concerning spiritual, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away into these dumb idols, even as ye were led. Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and no man can say that Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Ghost."
1 Corinthians 12:7
"But the manifestion of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."
Unprofitable Servant, I would be glad to hear your understanding of tongues in 1 Cor 14.
I think MH makes the point of both excesses... denying the power of God (the Christian life does not exist through the great human mind but by His Spirit), and ascribing the demons to God (counterfeits).