How many ways did Jesus refer to the Kindom of God? The Apostle's wrote the Epistles, as far as I know, they were all human beings, therefore, their writing reflect the POV's of people, who see things in various ways; this is especially true when you are trying to teach a difficult concept. Be honest, God could do everything himself, why does he need men and women to preach to and baptize a lost world? Isaiah 22 speaks about God replacing a bad official, who fails his duty to God and his people, with another man who will carry the King's keys and be "A Father (Papa/Pope) to his people. Matt 16, with the reference of the rabbinic terms "Bind and Loose" is the permission for "Infallibility". If the Levitic priesthood is decended from Aaron, why not the Papacy? Christ gives his power to those he will, for the good of his Church. Jesus did address Peter directly, "Thou art Peter". It's not Peter who prevails against Hell, but Christ's Church that does. Really, can you try remedial reading?
I'm not saying that these two quotes are in opposition. They are spoken from two different POV. Jesus in Matt 16 says, "I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH". Thats pretty pro-active for a capstone wouldn't you say? Sorry, but I can't change Christ's own words to please you, and I won't. In order for you and every other Fundi to deny the importance of men to God's plan of Salvation, you must twist the English Language and logic itself, not to mention changing the meaning of Christ's own words. Peter was God's "Right-hand man" see Isaiah 22:20-22, but Peter is still human, still capable like all humans, to be at fault. Like Nathan corrected King David, ST Paul can correct ST Peter, and I could correct the Pope. Infallibility was based on the "Binding and Loosing" of Matt 16. If Aaron was the first Levite priest and his descendants are all Levite priests, why can't men, chosen by God, succede Peter?
Lyn: The differences between Matt 16 and Ephesian 2:20 have to do with (1) Who is the speaker and(2) The speaker's point of view. In Eph 2, St Paul is the speaker and he makes reference to the members of the Church as being built upon the Apostles with Jesus as the cornerstone, to house the Spirit of God. This is perfectly true from his POV. In Matt 16, Jesus is the speaker. He calls Simon "Kepha" meaning "rock", then he says, "and ON THIS rock 'I WILL BUILD'". Here we see that Jesus is doing the building, not part of the structure. In his point of view, he is the 'actor' acting on the ROCK and building his Church upon it. If Simon is NOT the 'rock', then why change his name. In Scripture the change of name means a change in purpose (i.e.- Abram-Abraham, Jacob-Israel, Simon-Peter). Having Peter as the 'rock' also makes better literal sense, since Jesus had just named Simon, "the Rock". Jesus said, "I will build", which does not mean...."at this instant", rather it implies the passage of time. If you look a the history of the early Church, the Popes did not immediately spring up until some time later. The Church is a living thing, like a child growing up into manhood. The child changes but always remains the same individual, but with new abilities and new wisdom. (Part 1)
When Jesus gave Peter, and therefore all of those Bishops of the Church who came after him, the power to "Bind and Loose", he made it possible for the Church to allow this practice, provided certain things didn't happen, namely that the object of art not be worshipped in the place of God. God allowed the Jews to use art to decorate not only the Temple, but certain objects used for religious purposes. This includes the walls of the Temple, the veil, the Ark and other objects. Even Moses used a bronze Serpent to save the righteous Israelites from destruction, it was only later when people started to worship the object itself was it destroyed.
Lyn: My comments only point out the truth, "Theirs not Mine!". Many people worship one God, but really don't know him.
DJC49: The golden calf was to be worshipped in place of God. Statues in Church are only objects of art and we are forbidden to worship them.
Jesus said to his Apostles, "Whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven, whose sins you shall retain, the are retained (not forgiven)". To which of the Reformers did Jesus say the same? To which Protestant Church? If Jesus said it, then why don't you do it? The reason is, that your Churches are not the true Church founded by the Christ. Read it and weep!
DJC49: Here is a shocker for you. I KNEW THAT, AND I BELIEVE IT!
It's only Idol worship, if you set some worldly concept (money,sex,drugs,nation,youth,space aliens,etc.),living being, or inanimate object up for Divine worship instead of the true and living God.
People may believe in one God, the creator God, of which there is only one, and not know him personally, or know his character, and yet worship him in their ignorance (i.e-Moslems, Native American Indians, etc). St Paul credits the Greeks for seeking the one God, even in their darkness.
Catholic's who understand their religion do not worship the statue, they worship the God for whom that statue serves as a reminder. But, at least we don't worship the Bible.
MH: If the Pharisees ever make a come back...boy...have you got a job for life. You are the personafication of legalism. God must be known by all mankind by one name and one name only...and it must the name that MH says that is and nothing else. I'll wager that the catechism even teaches that Catholic's worship the same God as Prots. What a radical notion!
Infant of Prague: What? Was Jesus birthed as a full grown man? That must have been one heck of a pregnancy. The manger must been 6' long! Sometimes MH, I think in your fever to be so anti-catholic you make a fool of yourself. Get a rabies shot...soon!
I agree with what you say, and there is only one Jesus and only one God...call him by whatever name you like...but...my Jesus is none of those things that an unbeliever like you, says that he is. It's not me that you argue with but John 6.
Like so many things given to Henry VIII, this title "Defender of the Faith" was given to one not worthy of the honor. Since, Henry was so keen to reject the just and God-given Authority of the True Church in Rome over his quaint little country, he should have manned-up and returned the title as well. Prince Charles should succeed in this return where his ancient, meglameniacal, STD infected, wife-killing, ancestor failed.
Perhaps it is you who doesn't understand how simple it all is. We are merely asked to admit our sin and to confess it (me to a priest in God's presence, you to God directly). Next, to repent of it and make a firm decision to avoid it in the future. Restitution, if it is required, should be made as soon as possible and before we meet our death. Jesus did the heavy stuff already, but we are required to respond in faith to his commands and suffer the consequences if we don't. Read Matt 5:21-26, and Matt 18:21-35.
"If your brother does wrong, correct him; if he repents forgive him..." [Luke 17:3-4].
"You worthless wretch! I canceled your entire debt...Should you not have dealt mercifully with your fellow servant...My Father will treat you...in the same way unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart" [Matt 18:21-35].
I knew that in whatever manner that I answered that you would find some fault with it. If you didn't why would the world need Protestants? When I mentioned the "rift" between God and Man, did you imagine that the rift was about bad oral hygene and table manners? Why was the door of Heaven closed to mankind? Excessive flatulence? Jesus is my Savior, he saved me from my sins the terror of eternal separation from God and the fires of Hell. Catholics use this phrase about Jesus in our prayers: "Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world". He is the fulfillment of the O.T. lamb that was slain and eaten by the Israelites in Egypt, and whose blood saved them from the angel of death. Jesus paid our debt and resolved the insult to God the Father's honor with his life. He paid the price for our sins, but we must repent and make ammends and commit to avoiding our errors. But, if the wages of sin is death, and toil, old age, sickness and child birth are due to sin, how is it that you say, "Jesus paid it all"? Do we not still die, earn our bread thru toil? Grow Old, get sick, know pain? The answer is that Jesus paid to set us free from hell, but we still must suffer for our sins and make restitution to our brothers and sisters, both on earth, and in some cases in purgatory.
Answer: Jesus' death repaired the rift between God and man. He opened the door of Heaven. He allowed us a path, should we accept it, to complete God's creation in us, through us, and acomplish God's will, thus we will live with God as his adopted children rather than as His enemies.
MyResp on Purgatory: We believe that there are two aspects of sin. The first aspect is that sin separates us from God, kills the Divine life that dwells in our soul and makes us liable for eternal punishment. The second, is the need for restitution and or temporal punishment due the sinner. Most of this is satified throughout our life in the form of the trials and tribulations of being human. Since, men constantly sin, the chances that all temporal punishment is satified and all stain of sin eradicated is slight. Death entered the world because of Adam's sin, and so did suffering, the need to toil, and the pains of child birth. If Jesus really did "Pay it All" then why do we still get sick, grow old, and die?
"You're in BIG trouble...GG!"
MyResp: Part of the Good News is that I am saved, when I am finally saved, by Grace through faith in Jesus Christ. What I think, or what I know about the particulars is beside the point.