Reply to Alfred "Are you saying this is one event?: Yes. Zech 14 and 1 Thes 3:13 & 2 Thes 1:7 are clearly the same event: He comes with angels.
1 Thes 4: He is obviously coming with saints who are dead. So...given the proximity of 1 Thes 3:13 and 4:15--and Paul's continuing language, it doesn't appear legitimate to force two different events.
"What about the rapture of the 144,000 in Rev 14 which were redeemed from the earth." I am not sure just yet. You are right...it does appear to be a separate event.
Great Sermon! Question , 1 Thess 4:14 even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him, who are they? 2 Thess 1:7 the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels. Zech 14:5 and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. Are you saying this is one event? Those who are asleep, saints and angels, 3 different groups? What about the rapture of the 144,000 in Rev 14 which were redeemed from the earth. A lot of unanswered questions? Just asking?
Great Sermon! This is great stuff!!!! I love how when 1&2 thessalonians is read in contexts as if u was part of that church back in the day receiving Paul's letters it harmonizes perfect together as one coming... so perfect its along the same lines as the 4 Gospels harmonizing together to show the life of Christ..
Great Sermon! In a previous email conversation i had with Pastor Sean, I told him I do not believe God will pour out His wrath on the Body of Christ. He replied neither do I. Now that to me is pre-wrath. Now, of course if you believe that the Church will be protected just like the 144,000 from all the trumpet and bowl judgments, the Church will suffer not only from Satan's wrath, but from God's also. But I believe in a rapture somewhere between the 5th and 6th seal. I too have evolved from the traditional pre-trib rapture. I believe the first 5 seals judgments have occur and still are occurring today. But, post-trib, since I do not believe in Covenant Theology, I can't hold to a post-trib rapture.
Reply to Brother David Winslow Ah, now your email makes sense! It's interesting that you say "you doubt you can reason with those blinded to the truth." I don't know if you intended on doing this, but the very story has people who are "struck blind" and yet grope for the door to get to the folks who blinded them!!! Inconceivable! Well, thanks for the feedback, brother (and the good information about S & G's existence).
Great Sermon! This was a great discussion. I'm a 4.5 point Calvinist. I have taken issue recently with who Christ died for. I know God and Jesus is very particular with his use of words to convey his truth (John 12:49) so I don't think he accidentally made it sound like he died for every person if he only died for the elect. My problem was proving it. I have now found two scriptures that I feel confident do prove the point. 2 Peter 2:1 and Hebrews 10:28-29,39. I believe he died to save a particular people, the elect and to make salvation possible for anyone who will humble themselves and call on God to help them believe. Anyone who refuses the Holy Spirit's call to salvation will be guilty of the unpardonable sin and will be without excuse before God. What are your thoughts?
Great Sermon! Pastor Bill, as always you bring some clarity to difficult and overlooked Scriptural passages, I completely agree with your observation that we have no reason to think the Sodomite women were involved; and Gen 13:13 is the key verse. But the growing number of wolves who claim to teach/preach from Scripture is a sign for all of us. And I doubt you can reason with them who are willfully blinded to the truth. Years ago they would argue against any evidence that Sodom and Gomorrah ever existed. Now they argue to pervert the truth of why God destroyed those cities. In our nation, some are advocating and litigating to legalize forms of unnatural sex acts. We know these same people cannot accept Biblical truth as their eyes are blind.
Great Sermon! I like your comment about America being the swamp and Donald Trump is the creature coming out of the swamp. In contrast, how can Hillary Clinton even be considered a viable Democratic candidate when she should be one email away from jail. Our politics may have really changed in 1960s when JFK was first Catholic elected as president. It certainly changed when Gerald Ford became first to assume office without anyone voting for him. Shamefully, in a democracy you eventually get the government you deserve. Morally depraved and without conscience. Trump's politics are not Republican and fall to the left - but he has managed to exploit the disgust many of us feel towards both parties and the establishment. It will be a very long campaign and, at the end, what do you think will really change?
Great Sermon! I probably wouldn't have even heard this except that I play (air) almost every sermon preached from your pulpit on www.wildernessradio.com and happened to be listening in while delivering the mail. I have already expressed my continued respect for you pastors and thought this was a solid study as well. Keep up the good work. Thomas
War Room Review Wow, tough review. Guess I wouldn't make a good movie critic. Wife and I went and thoroughly enjoyed. Even thought the acting was better than most Christian movies. Ok, scene with her yelling at Satan was difficult. I really thought this was one of the best Christian movies I have seen, and that it was done in a professional manner (with a limited budget I'm sure). I thought the acting, and the movie itself, was much better than Fireproof.
Great Sermon! Very good, brothers. Word trumps opinion every time. I would add that a "rapture" is indeed described in Rev 11:12, after a resurrection of dead saints in vs 11 which all occurs right at the time of the 7th and last trumpet in vs 15. This agrees with 1Cor 15:52, 1Thess 4:16, and Matt 24:31 where a trumpet and a snatching away happen.
Reply to Alfred I am beginning to think you are a troll. We have not been "pre-trib" as a ministry (publically) in 3 years and I don't think you can find us ever being "pre-wrath."
Please stay nice.
Great Sermon! Knowing that persecution of faithful believers - such as occurs in many places overseas - will come to the West and to America is sobering and true. There is no Scriptural promise that we will remain blessed with grace and somehow get to avoid all of the coming tribulation; yet many want to believe in Rapture as a free ticket out. Thanks for taking time to clearly address this issue and I hope many others will listen.
Great Sermon! The order with which you explain the pretribulation is of a nature I never heard before, if that is what our Pastor taught of my Bible I would think as you guy's do too. Please continue to study to shew yourselves approved, I do agree based on what you taught that a pretribulation is ridiculous. Fortunately this is not what I've been taught.
Great Sermon! We are really as Western world Christians living in a bubble of incredibly long lasting mercy. For us to believe we will be sheilded from persecution forever is completely contrary to God's word. Get ready folks. Great discussions.
I'm saddened So reflective of the day and age we live in that this is even being discussed. God hates divorce. How can two who were one flesh ever be anything but one flesh?
Nowadays you even find divorced and re-married men becoming ministers and pastors. This would have been unheard of not so long ago and would have been seen as scandalous. May God help us and forgive this liberal, sinful generation.