Pastor Rick Warren Hospitalized, Awaiting Diagnosis
Pastor Rick Warren of Saddleback Church was hospitalized Tuesday after experiencing pain in his arms.
The renowned Southern California pastor will be undergoing a series of tests to determine what the cause is though the doctor's "diagnostic guess" is that he has an inner ear virus that may have spread to the nerves in his neck and down his arms.
"[P]ray for a quick and accurate diagnosis, a fast remedy," he asked his megachurch in an email Tuesday late afternoon.
Idah wrote: i have an uncle that believes similarly to you but wont talk about it.
That's interesting. I know your questions are sincere, and I apologize for not making that clear in my last posting. I'd like to wish you the best as well. I'm a frequent visitor to this website so I'm sure I'll see you on other discussion boards.
Phoebe wrote: If you believe what you say you believe then thats all well and good. We die and feed the worms and someone grows their cabbages in us. But if there is a God then you don't know anything about Him. Wouldn't it make more sense to get to know about God before the inevitable, no matter what we believe, happens? Death. If you are correct, no harm done If you're wrong, well .. it would be embarrassing don't you think? Either way there is no harm done the Christian who believes God.
Yours is a worthy appeal but, in Mike's case, be aware that he has a masters degree in divinity. He has been exposed to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and rejected Him as a figment of a diluded cult's imagination.
It must be concluded, then, that even though he has heard and read about the power of God unto salvation, God has chosen, at least up to this time, to not open his eyes, his ears or give him a heart to perceive. That is, unless you are a synergist in which case your appeal would be just as effective if made to the pope.
Mike. If you really believed what you seem to be preaching, why are you here? The universe, being created from no-one and coming from nothing could probably randomly and in error implode in the next 3 secs. This would most likely cause another big bang resulting in a completely different species who have absolutely no knowledge of you. But you don't believe that could happen do you? You need to read back over your posts and observe the number of times you fill in the gaps with your positive imagination. You are like a man hopping from one insecure rock to another incase you fall into a world you haven't made yourself.
If you believe what you say you believe then thats all well and good. We die and feed the worms and someone grows their cabbages in us. But if there is a God then you don't know anything about Him. Wouldn't it make more sense to get to know about God before the inevitable, no matter what we believe, happens? Death. If you are correct, no harm done If you're wrong, well .. it would be embarrassing don't you think? Either way there is no harm done the Christian who believes God.
pastor mike, my intention was never to trap you as i know you have been asked so many of these questions. i was just trying to understand where you come from and how you deal with some of these questions. the reason being, i have an uncle that believes similarly to you but wont talk about it. another thing, i know that i am not going to "save you" through these crazy internet duscusdions. i appreciate your candid answers and wish you the best.
Mike wrote: Where does the raw materials come from? ... Mike. Maybe the real reason u are a atheist, Is accountability. Mike. My family will pray, that the Lord open your eyes. I pray u open the Bible alone. And the Lord open your eyes.
The raw materials often come from transcription errors in the genetic code. You'll find this spelled out in full detail in any introductory biology textbook.
The rest of your argument is ad hominem, and thus not worthy of serious reply. You Christians sure do love going after people personally, don't you? How is it that people who supposedly have the "Truth" find this so necessary?
One of the reason I don't have much patients for these discussions is that most of you didn't come to "faith" through a careful consideration of the evidence. These conversations about the second law of thermodynamics or genetics are for you an after thought which would never even enter your heads if it weren't for folks like me. You came to believe as you do usually through a childhood indoctrination program.
As for this "I'll be praying for you" business, it's nothing more than a passive-aggressive form of the ad hominem fallacy.
Where does the raw materials come from? It seems mike, It takes more faith to be an atheist and a evolutionist, rather then believing God did creat the heavens and earth. Mike. Maybe the real reason u are a atheist, Is accountability. Mike. My family will pray, that the Lord open your eyes. I pray u open the Bible alone. And the Lord open your eyes.
idaho wrote: my full mental prowess is on display here. it wasnt newton. it was a french guy.
We'll call it even because I didn't catch your mistake. However, now that you point it out, I realize that I should have picked up on that.
idaho wrote: without positive/constructive energy things that are in order would start to become out of order.
The key is 'without energy.' You've just explained why animals die without food and plants die without light. Energy is needed to arrest the tendency towards disorder.
idaho wrote: that is why i feel the question of the natual/observable laws of our universe are important. did they change and will they change again? if so, then we are up a creek, because they are no longer laws that we can no longer count on because they may change on us down the road.
That's a very good point. I agree.
idaho wrote: what is it that a humanist holds as yhe highest calling or main goal of ones life?
The highest calling is the advancement of humanity and the protection of life.
hello pastor mike, my full mental prowess is on display here. it wasnt newton. it was a french guy. anyway, basically i think that the second law of thermodynamics states that through time, heat and energy things fall apart, not come together. which is why stuff left out in the sun for a couple of years looks awful. without positive/constructive energy things that are in order would start to become out of order. that is why i would question (among many other things) the extensive time frame that macro evolution would require. it seems that matter would not only have to better itself through chamce(very difficult odds) but also do so upstreem(2nd law of thermodynamics(the effects of temperature change, environment and energy) that is why i feel the question of the natual/observable laws of our universe are important. did they change and will they change again? if so, then we are up a creek, because they are no longer laws that we can no longer count on because they may change on us down the road.
on another note: what is it that a humanist holds as yhe highest calling or main goal of ones life?
Mike wrote: Where did all things come from? How does nothing create something? Everything u have, was created and made. It did not just appear by chance. How do you explain, as a atheist and evolutionist? Thank you.
Evolution doesn't teach that the lifeforms alive today are the result of pure chance. They're much too complex for that to have been probable. What it does teach is that chance provides the raw materials (genetic mutations which manifest as observable characteristics) on which natural selection can act, allowing complexity to build over time.
Evolution accounts for the diversity and complexity of life, but not it's origin. To explain the origin of life another theory is needed. The study of how life could have arose from nonliving material is called abiogenesis. This is still an area of active research. However, what evolution has done is to significantly lower the threshold of complexity which would need to be reached by chance alone.
I hope I've answered your question. There's more to learn than I can express here in writing, but I'm sure you'll be able to find more details online. Good luck to you!
idaho wrote: here is another [thought] that came to mind. if random chance and servival of the fittest is how we got to where we are, then shouldt we just let it keep improving us? if evolution an all it aspouses are true then why are we so comcerned by the effects of our choices?
The problem is that evolution isn't necessarily improving us; it's merely helping us (specially our genes) survive. Think of the whale going back to live in the water, although it had once lived on land, having originally come from the water. That's evolution's problem. It has no plans and no vision.
In the past the survival adaptations with which evolution has afforded humans have been an improvement. However this may not always continue to be the case. I can think of several scenarios where a change that society would consider an improvement wouldn't necessarily result in a survival advantage.
idaho wrote: in high school i learned about newton's 2nd law of ... has that always existed or did it just start at a certain time?
You'd do better asking this question of a physicist. I honestly don't know if certain laws came into being as the universe developed or if they always existed. My expertise is biology.