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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  11/28/2014
SATURDAY, JAN 12, 2013  |  157 comments
Most Evangelical Leaders Back Gun Control?

Evangelical Christian leaders in America have expressed their support for stricter gun regulations following December's tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., where 26 people were fatally shot.

In a poll conducted by the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE), 73 percent of church leaders agreed that there needs to be stricter gun regulations, in hopes that tragedies, such as the ones that occurred in Newtown, can be prevented or minimized in the future.

"Evangelicals are pro-life and deeply grieve when any weapons are used to take innocent lives," said Leith Anderson, President of the NAE. "The evangelical leaders who responded to the NAE survey support the Second Amendment right to bear arms but also want our laws to prevent the slaughter of children." ...


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COMMENTS | show all | add new  
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Page 1 | Page 5 ·  Found: 157 user comment(s)
News Item1/15/13 9:58 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Neil wrote:
1. OK, I'll indulge you: If the Queen's laws are oppressive, you emigrate to a place where one can legally defend himself. Liberty-loving Britons have been doing that in coming here, for centuries going.
2. Now answer my question: How would you stop a rape in progress absent physical force, which in the UK is apparently a state monopoly?
2. My answer was given 4.53am.

1. Amazing. You recommend all Christians leave the UK?

Interestingly, I did get in touch with one of Ian's Merry Men in Florida some years ago, with regard to moving to America, and he said that immigration laws were so tight I would not be able to get in.

But I still would not buy a gun to defend myself, but put my trust and hope in the Lord God who said, "I will never leave thee nor forake thee." If he considered it necessary that I should remain alive until a certain date, then nothing and nobody could alter that.

I wonder if those who want the capability to kill secretly wish that they were God?

Of course, Americans are brought up on stories of pioneering ranchers with huge arsenals of weaponry to protect themselves against indiginous Indians who fought them to try to get their land back.

77

News Item1/15/13 9:34 AM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
John UK wrote:
Neil, let me explain.
You have already established your principle from scripture, and I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and looking at how applying that scriptural principle works in practise.
OK, I'll indulge you: If the Queen's laws are oppressive, you emigrate to a place where one can legally defend himself. Liberty-loving Britons have been doing that in coming here, for centuries going.

Now answer my question: How would you stop a rape in progress absent physical force, which in the UK is apparently a state monopoly?

76

News Item1/15/13 9:10 AM
np  Find all comments by np
2 PCs/handhelds?
75

News Item1/15/13 8:56 AM
Please do share  Find all comments by Please do share
Christopher000 wrote:
..Other than that...run, stay clear of potential danger, move from and stay away from crime ridden areas, etc.
Oh man...what was this thread about again?? Ha-ha. I probably trailed way off target. Anyway, I believe that God expects us to protect ourselves from any type of potential danger, by any means necessary but I think the death penalty should be avoided if at all possible because that person would probably be on their way to Hell at that particular moment should we take their life.
Okay, this post is probably way out of whack now from what was being discussed.
How do you put up multiple posts within minutes of each other?
74

News Item1/15/13 8:44 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Christopher000 wrote:
..Other than that...run, stay clear of potential danger, move from and stay away from crime ridden areas, etc.
Sometimes, that is the wise thing to do, Christopher.

But what do you think of the life and evangelism of David Wilkerson in regard to this discussion?

Christopher000 wrote:
...but I think the death penalty should be avoided if at all possible because that person would probably be on their way to Hell at that particular moment should we take their life.
Ahh....now you are getting to the main point!
73

News Item1/15/13 8:33 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
..Other than that...run, stay clear of potential danger, move from and stay away from crime ridden areas, etc.
Oh man...what was this thread about again?? Ha-ha. I probably trailed way off target. Anyway, I believe that God expects us to protect ourselves from any type of potential danger, by any means necessary but I think the death penalty should be avoided if at all possible because that person would probably be on their way to Hell at that particular moment should we take their life.
Okay, this post is probably way out of whack now from what was being discussed.
72

News Item1/15/13 8:31 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
I don't know who I'm agreeing or disagreeing with here because I just lightly scanned the thread. I feel that God would expect each and everyone of us to defend ourselves against violence of any type. I don't believe that He would expect us to stand there and get slapped silly, or allow someone to empty a clip on us if we had the means to defend ourselves...by any means necessary. When we are sick, I believe He expects us to get treatment along with prayer. I believe that's why He provided medical knowledge. When we are crossing a street, He expects us to look both ways because He expects us to use caution in daily life. When we are visiting a zoo, He expects us not to jump into the lion's den because He won't be there to shut their mouths; He expects us to have and use our common sense. When it comes to weapons, especially in this rapidly degenerating world, I believe that He expects us to protect ourselves...by any means necessary. Should we defy the government? I guess not but we should attempt work around any laws without breaking them. Can't own a gun, carry a knife. Can't carry a knife, carry a taser. Can't carry a taser, carry mace. Can't carry mace, carry a weighted club. Can't carry a club, carry an air horn. Other than that...run, stay clear of potential
71

News Item1/15/13 8:14 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Kyle wrote:
John,
The world is a dangerous place, not just Tucson. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something. I chose that scenario, because it happened recently. The woman had a gun. Unless you're skilled with your hands, a gun ban is a death sentence in that case.
Hi Kyle
Firstly, I must say that in 60 years I have only ever seen one loaded gun, and that was held by a guard outside an army camp based alongside a main road in Somerset.

The world is a dangerous place? So how will you go on if the Lord calls you to mission in the UK? You'll have to leave your weaponry at home or face imprisonment when you get here.

Now what do you think God is doing up in heaven? Sitting back as an observer of the antics of men? Or do you not think he sees everything that happens? Or perhaps you do not think he involves himself in our life? Do you not believe in angels?

I do not think the world is so dangerous now as it was in the first century. Yet if you look at every verse of scripture from Pentecost onwards, you find no references to weapons being carried or used by the "harmless as doves" Christians. If you know of any reference, please post it up and prove me wrong.

70

News Item1/15/13 7:06 AM
Kyle | Tucson  Find all comments by Kyle
John,

The world is a dangerous place, not just Tucson. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something. I chose that scenario, because it happened recently. The woman had a gun. Unless you're skilled with your hands, a gun ban is a death sentence in that case.

If you believe God says no, then why does it matter what the Queen says? Is God suddenly OK with it as long as the gun is registered? You're not making any sense, but then intelligence is a stumbling block, isn't it?

69

News Item1/15/13 4:53 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Neil wrote:
That's putting the cart before the horse. Concepts (better, basic principles) must be established before secondary questions like application can be addressed. That's the problem with your posing a legal dilemma: you started out trying to show that Scripture forbids personal arms (a "concept"!), not that H.M. Gov't bans or licenses them, as you brought up later as an application. There's a *principle* we disagree on, so what's the use in discussing whether to obey the gov't or not?
Neil, let me explain.

You have already established your principle from scripture, and I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and looking at how applying that scriptural principle works in practise. If you say you are correctly interpreting scripture, you must now appreciate that I want to know how to work that out in my life. Otherwise what purpose the word of God? Will you now do so please?

To answer your question which Kyle reiterated...

Here in the UK, Queen Elizabeth II has, through her guv, given me legal permission to defend myself or others, using any justifiable force, and given me the right to make a citizens arrest. But NOT with an unlicensed sword (or gun) or even a licensed one. God save the Queen - all rise, please.

68

News Item1/15/13 4:05 AM
John Beechy  Find all comments by John Beechy
Since the Sandy Hook thing was obviously a State doing, regardless of whatever really happened, or didn't happened, this gun control issue has become a hot subject. While many say "they wanna take our guns...", perhaps they may actually be arming the masses? And, if so, why? Just a thought.

Another thought that worries me is how so many people are "waking up" about the Sandy Hook hoax. People get excited about this, but I find it suspicious. The 9/11 hoax took awhile for a lot of people to accept, but the Sandy Hook hoax was caught immediately and spread like wildfire to the masses.

"That damn Internet."

Then another possible reason for this alleged massacre is Internet censorship due to the "outlandish conspiracy theories" and all the "wackos" who question any official conspiracy theory. There's already a petition to the State god to make it a crime to question the official Sandy Hook theory.

Not only did some evildoers create some event in Sandy Hook, it appears they intentionally created inconsistencies in their story so even the most radical anti-conspiracy people would get on board "exposing" the hoax.

Since we have some broadcasters in the Sandy Hook area, it'd be nice for them to do some research for us.

67

News Item1/15/13 12:59 AM
Hot Rod Nate | Indiana  Find all comments by Hot Rod Nate
Will not see what?

I believe Christians should have the right to bear arms just as much as unbelieving sinners.
Why shouldn't we?
just like i have no fear that the Lord will not supply food and shelter for me, that doesn't mean i do not work to earn money to buy food. I trust in the Lord for protection but that doesn't mean I dont arm myself against insane criminals.

66

News Item1/15/13 12:40 AM
Morf  Find all comments by Morf
Hot Rod Nate wrote:
So in old testament times there was not perfect love?
gun owners are fearful?
I find that hard to believe.
There's none so blind as those who will not see.
65

News Item1/15/13 12:36 AM
Hot Rod Nate | Indiana  Find all comments by Hot Rod Nate
So in old testament times there was not perfect love?

gun owners are fearful?
I find that hard to believe.

64

News Item1/15/13 12:31 AM
Morf  Find all comments by Morf
Hot Rod Nate wrote:
What has changed that Christians can no longer carry weapons to defend themselves?
Perfect love casts out fear.
63

News Item1/15/13 12:18 AM
Hot Rod Nate | Indiana  Find all comments by Hot Rod Nate
What has changed that Christians can no longer carry weapons to defend themselves?
62

News Item1/15/13 12:15 AM
Llwynhywel Wood  Find all comments by Llwynhywel Wood
Kyle wrote:
Let's say you're a woman home alone with your two little girls,
Sounds like fear is a stumbling block.
Tucson must be a very terrible place if you spend your life thinking like that.
Move to Wales and live a life without fear.
61

News Item1/15/13 12:14 AM
Hot Rod Nate | Indiana  Find all comments by Hot Rod Nate
The folks in Nehemiah's time carried weapons for self defense.
They fought for their family, homes, and their brethren.

Nehemiah 4:13-18 KJV

Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows. And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. And it came to pass, when our enemies heard that it was known unto us, and God had brought their counsel to nought, that we returned all of us to the wall, every one unto his work. And it came to pass from that time forth, that the half of my servants wrought in the work, and the other half of them held both the spears, the shields, and the bows, and the habergeons; and the rulers were behind all the house of Judah. They which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens, with those that laded, every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon. For the builders, every one had his sword girded by his side, and so builded. And he that sounded the trumpet was by me

60

News Item1/14/13 11:54 PM
Kyle | Tucson  Find all comments by Kyle
John UK, intelligence is a stumbling block? I haven't read anything that silly in a long time.

Let's say you're a woman home alone with your two little girls, and a man breaks in. You hide in a closet, and you wait. He finds you, and you're trapped. Is the use of deadly force in defense of self OK then? If not, what is the appropriate response? You can't call the police, because they'll use guns to exercise deadly force on your behalf as well. Offer yourselves to the man as a service to God? Offer the little girls to him to sate him? Jesus did say to turn the other cheek and to repay evil with good, didn't he? How do you apply your principle here?

Or is my intelligence a stumbling block?

59

News Item1/14/13 10:51 PM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
saving someone's life is giving them survival. and yes, no matter what part of the world, there tends to be a gladness that comes when an innocent life is saved.
58
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