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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/21/2014
Choice News THURSDAY, OCT 11, 2012  |  110 comments
CEO to Workers: I May Fire You if Obama Wins
David Siegel, the owner of Westgate Resorts, sent a surprising email to his employees Monday. It said that if President Barack Obama wins re-election and raises Siegel's taxes, he will have to lay off workers and downsize his company - or even shut it down.

"If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, as our current President plans, I will have no choice but to reduce the size of this company," he wrote. "Rather than grow this company I will be forced to cut back. This means fewer jobs, less benefits and certainly less opportunity for everyone."

In a version of Romney's "47 percent" remarks, Siegel added that "people like me who made all the right decisions and invested in themselves are being forced to bail out all the people who didn't. The people that overspent their paychecks suddenly feel entitled to the same luxuries that I earned and sacrificed 42 years of my life for." ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
finance.yahoo.com

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Page 1 | Page 5 ·  Found: 110 user comment(s)
News Item10/23/12 3:17 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Actually, Neil, God pointed out that Job wasn't one of those who,

Ecclesiastes 5
10 He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves abundance with its income. This too is vanity.
11 When good things increase, those who consume them increase. So what is the advantage to their owners except to look on?
12 The sleep of the working man is pleasant, whether he eats little or much. But the full stomach of the rich man does not allow him to sleep.
13 There is a grievous evil which I have seen under the sun: riches being hoarded by their owner to his hurt.
14 When those riches were lost through a bad investment and he had fathered a son, then there was nothing to support him.
15 As he had come naked from his mother's womb, so will he return as he came. He will take nothing from the fruit of his labor that he can carry in his hand.---NASB

Job and Abraham were open-handed or they wouldn't have been praised in the Bible.

For a contrast you should at least look over the transcript for, Full Show: Plutocracy Rising from which, "The One Percent is not only increasing their share of wealth —..." -Bill Moyers

30

News Item10/23/12 3:06 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Notlocked wrote:
It was actually Jesus who said, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.",
not me.
I know that. But you twist the intent of His teaching into a commentary on the evils of wealth. It is not. We have no logical ground here to infer that it's any easier for a poor man. Neither the poor nor the rich can enter the Kingdom, save a miraculous work of God. Earthly blessings, such as wealth, imply nothing about Divine favor toward unworthy men, contrary to what, throughout history, is often believed.
29

News Item10/23/12 3:03 PM
Notlocked  Find all comments by Notlocked
Neil wrote:
Abraham & Job were wealthy; therefore, it was hard for them to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. They were disadvantaged.
But you are not understanding the point Jesus was making. Note that in the following verse, the disciples do not fallaciously infer that a poor person has it easier. Instead, they ask, “Who then can be saved?” The answer was, “With God, all things are possible.” So wealth really wasn't the point of that passage.
Regarding frugality, it is surely not virtuous to be a big spender, like the Prodigal Son. If rich people are so disadvantaged, as you say, then why should a Christian fret over them like you do? Why not mind our own business, as Paul commands, instead of worrying about what other people have & passing ignorant judgment on them?
Hey rhymnrzn, put your cards on the table: can you supply any examples of evil wealthy merchants who are ostensible Christians? And I don't mean convicts like Abramoff or Martha the Inside Trader
It was actually Jesus who said, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.",
not me.
28

News Item10/23/12 2:38 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
jpw wrote:
is it virtuous to make money on a product that hurts the poor? is it virtuous to ignore the harm it does on the poor because money was exchanged and exchanging money is business and business is a noble affair?
You beg a question here, big time: How do you know it *really* hurts the poor? Are they not responsible for their consensual actions? And what income level defines "poor" anyway? If an Eritrean orphan is truly poor, then what Westerner is remotely comparable to him? And is it OK if said product hurts the rich?

It is claimed that lotteries hurt the poor. Perhaps, but as a Chinese coworker once cleverly argued, they are beneficial because they give them hope. It all depends on how one defines "hurt."

Ad misericordiam is a common tactic of guilt manipulators, both religious & secular.

27

News Item10/23/12 2:06 PM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
is it virtuous to make money on a product that hurts the poor?

is it virtuous to ignore the harm it does on the poor because money was exchanged and exchanging money is business and business is a noble affair?

26

News Item10/23/12 10:19 AM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Notlocked wrote:
Hmmm. Jesus said it was difficult for a wealthy person to enter the Kingdom of heaven. The rich, are disadvantaged where the Kingdom of Heaven is concerned.

Wealthy people aren't more virtuous for being frugal - that's just the way men think.
Wealthy people are disadvantaged.

Abraham & Job were wealthy; therefore, it was hard for them to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. They were disadvantaged.

But you are not understanding the point Jesus was making. Note that in the following verse, the disciples do not fallaciously infer that a poor person has it easier. Instead, they ask, “Who then can be saved?” The answer was, “With God, all things are possible.” So wealth really wasn't the point of that passage.

Regarding frugality, it is surely not virtuous to be a big spender, like the Prodigal Son. If rich people are so disadvantaged, as you say, then why should a Christian fret over them like you do? Why not mind our own business, as Paul commands, instead of worrying about what other people have & passing ignorant judgment on them?

Hey rhymnrzn, put your cards on the table: can you supply any examples of evil wealthy merchants who are ostensible Christians? And I don't mean convicts like Abramoff or Martha the Inside Trader

25

News Item10/23/12 5:11 AM
Notlocked  Find all comments by Notlocked
Hmmm. Jesus said it was difficult for a wealthy person to enter the Kingdom of heaven. The rich, are disadvantaged where the Kingdom of Heaven is concerned. Jesus didn't differentiate between those who were frugal with their riches and those who weren't.

Wealthy people aren't more virtuous for being frugal - that's just the way men think.

Wealthy people are disadvantaged.

24

News Item10/23/12 12:36 AM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Notlocked wrote:
"... many wealthy people actually live quite frugally."
Many? Will you name any?
For a start, those listed in the article I posted. But that's not many, is it?

Visit a hospital, YMCA, university, or some other public building. In the foyer, you'll probably find a lengthy list of donors, maybe even the person the facility is named after. Alas, now *there* are some wealthy people who aren't frugal!

23

News Item10/22/12 10:43 PM
rhymnrzn | dayton, ohio  Contact via emailFind all comments by rhymnrzn
It is true that judgement belongs to the Lord, and he alone is fit to do, as he knows the hearts. What you said is not true Neil, as we know many so called brethren are in danger of the judgement for their excesses. The majority of the participants in secular government boast membership to the body of Christ, as do the majority of wealthy merchants. Nor do the Scriptures you quoted negate other Scriptures, just like other Scriptures do not negate the ones you quote, as if I am seeking to bring upon any man other than what is written. for example:

James 2:6
"But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?"

1 Timothy 6:9
"But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition."

Luke 1:52 (Mary's reply)
"He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree. (53) He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

22

News Item10/22/12 10:29 PM
Notlocked  Find all comments by Notlocked
"... many wealthy people actually live quite frugally."

Many? Will you name any?

21

News Item10/22/12 10:14 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
I don't think there's much chance that "brethren" here are in much danger of excess wealth. But I'll let Scripture make my point:

”For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth“ – 1 Cor. 5:12-13

“Judge not, that ye not be judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged;” – Matt 7:1-2

”Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment” – John 7:24

20

News Item10/22/12 9:27 PM
rhymnrzn | dayton, ohio  Contact via emailFind all comments by rhymnrzn
Neil wrote:
Maybe you just like condemning people you've never met. Both "liberals" & Fundies share that habit. I have enough trouble just making sense of the people I do know. Judge not, lest ye be judged.
As the Lord lives, I don't mind being outcast as a "liberal and a fundie" from some one that is not in one accord in the Gospel. Granted, I would seek to forewarn brothers against doing things that are bad for reputation, such as running a worldly racket, and then casting it off based on who rides or who wipes out on the surf of the multitudes.

There's plenty of cases going around where people are being threatened over sequestration, and this or that happens if so and so gets elected: but if we were righteous, God only would be our king, and we wouldn't need these hirelings to stand up and make our sons and daughters to be their bakers, servants, soldiers, and take the tenth of our harvests etc.

here's democracy for you

Proverbs 28:2
"For the transgression of a land many are the princes thereof: but by a man of understanding and knowledge the state thereof shall be prolonged."

Proverbs 29:2
"When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn."

19

News Item10/22/12 9:02 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
rhymnrzn wrote:
That being at least a little ways off in the distance, tell me, is it God's will for men to ignore Christ, and strike up 10 and 20 year loans, and build lavish resorts and whatever, to depend on what they know not?
Maybe you just like condemning people you've never met. Both "liberals" & Fundies share that habit. I have enough trouble just making sense of the people I do know. Judge not, lest ye be judged.
18

News Item10/22/12 8:54 PM
rhymnrzn | dayton, ohio  Contact via emailFind all comments by rhymnrzn
Neil wrote:
I am in no position to judge other people's hearts, so I cannot say whether anyone is as overly covetous as you think. If I dared to try it, I could be fairly blamed for the sin of divination! So stop fretting over the wealthy. They are not the proper concern of believers.
BTW, contrary to the stereotype of the top hatter riding in a Pierce-Arrow down Park Avenue, many wealthy people actually live quite frugally. Even those who are ostentatious still provide work for the lowly, by purchasing goods made by them. God uses even the evil for his providential purposes.
By the sounds of it, it is as the days of heaven, and their be no treacherous dealing against the brethren in breaking the covenant of Christ either. Nor do you seem at all concerned with the coming dispensation that all Christians are soon to face, and all men small and great, where we shall not even have the right to buy and sell save he that receives the mark of the beast. That being at least a little ways off in the distance, tell me, is it God's will for men to ignore Christ, and strike up 10 and 20 year loans, and build lavish resorts and whatever, to depend on what they know not?
17

News Item10/22/12 8:38 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
rhymnrzn wrote:
but that does not cut everyone loose to labor to be rich, to take thought for the morrow, to owe any man in persuits of leasing lives of luxury, and to lend hoping to recieve as much again and more upon usury.
I am in no position to judge other people's hearts, so I cannot say whether anyone is as overly covetous as you think. If I dared to try it, I could be fairly blamed for the sin of divination! And I see no Biblical examples of usury in play these days; in fact, interest rates are low, possibly too low. So stop fretting over the wealthy. They are not the proper concern of believers.

BTW, contrary to the stereotype of the top hatter riding in a Pierce-Arrow down Park Avenue, many wealthy people actually live quite frugally. Even those who are ostentatious still provide work for the lowly, by purchasing goods made by them. God uses even the evil for his providential purposes.

16

News Item10/22/12 8:32 PM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
when the coorporation merges with the gov, which side do we blame, or do we just acknowledge that frakenstein has awoken?
15

News Item10/22/12 8:27 PM
rhymnrzn | dayton, ohio  Contact via emailFind all comments by rhymnrzn
Judges 8:2 "And he said unto them, What have I done now in comparison of you? Is not the gleaning of the grapes of Ephraim better than the vintage of Abiezer?"

Right, and Gideon and his men were faint when going to fight the battles of the LORD, and the men of Succoth wouldn't give then to eat and drink for their journey. Far be it from me to condemn someone just for being rich: but that does not cut everyone loose to labor to be rich, to take thought for the morrow, to owe any man in persuits of leasing lives of luxury, and to lend hoping to recieve as much again and more upon usury.

It is good to mention Abraham, who was rich, as was Job (relatively), in their dispensation. Being in the dispensation of Christ, who racks up the grace of all ages, would himself remind us of the year of liberty which was commanded every 7 years, and how Israel had to go to Babylon 70 years, that the land would finally enjoy her sabbaths: God took vengeance on the ruling elites, who brought their brethren back into bondage, and were the roots for mass human suffering including the widows and orphans you mentioned. It does not take much looking around to find similar to worse situations upon every place.

14

News Item10/22/12 7:21 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
rhymnrzn wrote:
"Westgate Resorts provides [blah blah] ..."
yeah buddy....reputations r us
Matthew 20:13 is not holding up a man of wicked idolatry who coveted greedily, but someone who was not willing to send them away empty (who are his equals), by communicating with their needs, after they turned up who were staring down their own needs and were willing to do honest work.
Proverbs 28:8
"He that by usury and unjust gain increaseth his substance, he shall gather it for him that will pity the poor."
Westgate Resorts is a legitimate business. God commands Christians not to hunt down & condemn rich people, who, like the landowner in the Parable, have every right to hire & fire as they have need, but to mind our own business (1 Thess. 4:11). Let God judge them in His time.

The main issue the rich are condemned for in Scripture is not merely wealth by itself (Abraham was a rich man), but oppression of widows & orphans who cannot pay their loans. Other people, I presume, are fair game for debt prosecution.

13

News Item10/22/12 3:44 PM
Notlocked  Find all comments by Notlocked
Frank: "I'm not all that sure where you are going with your thoughts, but I will say this; women are definitely prone to deception and therefore we should not allow them to be Christian teachers or leaders in any aspect. They should seek to be role models solely as wives and mothers and leave the teaching and leading to men.

Is that all men? Should ALL men be teachers? Are men able to decieve others? Are men able to be decieved?
Does the church have ONE head, or many heads? Should women remain silent in a church where the men are taking others in heresy? There are so many questions formula's can't answer aren't there?

Who are 'teachers'? How many disciples does a teacher need to have before they can be called teachers of men?

Should men teach women?

12

News Item10/22/12 3:15 PM
rhymnrzn | dayton, ohio  Contact via emailFind all comments by rhymnrzn
Neil wrote:
A Biblical truth often overlooked:
"Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own?" – Matt. 20:13
yahoo search:
"Westgate Resorts provides affordable luxury vacations, first-class accommodations, and unparalleled customer service, featuring hotels and resorts in premiere travel ..."

yeah buddy....reputations r us

Matthew 20:13 is not holding up a man of wicked idolatry who coveted greedily, but someone who was not willing to send them away empty (who are his equals), by communicating with their needs, after they turned up (for what reason, God knows) who were staring down their own needs and were willing to do honest work.

Proverbs 28:8
"He that by usury and unjust gain increaseth his substance, he shall gather it for him that will pity the poor."

11
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