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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  7/11/2014
Choice News TUESDAY, NOV 13, 2012  |  180 comments
The petition to let Texas secede from the U.S. to be reviewed by the White House

As of 3:40 p.m. ET, more than 25,000 Texans have already signed the petition on The White House website to let Texas peacefully secede from United States of America and “create its own NEW government.”

The petition, created on Nov. 9, argues for secession.


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
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COMMENTS | show all | add new  
    Sorting Order:  
Page 1 | Page 3 ·  Found: 180 user comment(s)
News Item11/15/12 1:46 PM
Marty | Usa  Find all comments by Marty
Who really knows that?
140

News Item11/15/12 1:38 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Rufus wrote:
If Lincoln was not a tyrant, I know of no other that fits the bill.
Then you have a strange definition of tyrant. Lincoln critics are highly selective in their use of evidence, & blame him for using the same War Powers that Jeff Davis practiced (e.g. the South had the 1st comprehensive military draft in US history, & enforced it rigorously). It was a war he never wanted, forced upon him by the South, as his writings & actions make *very* clear.

The War of "Northern Aggression" is a lie. It was a War of Rebellion. The South had no just cause, legally or morally.

139

News Item11/15/12 1:34 PM
Rufus | Fort Worth, TX  Protected NameFind all comments by Rufus
Neil wrote:
Non sequitur. Moreover, he was baptized as a Baptist in 1854, which you failed to notice or admit.
If you want to bring up Catholicism in the context of secession, consider that I can name four Catholic "scholars" who have falsely characterized Lincoln as a tyrant.
If Lincoln was not a tyrant, I know of no other that fits the bill. It is a right and proper characterization.

There were and remain Babylonians on both sides. I retract my Catholic post regarding Houston in favor of further study and I thank you for the information.

138

News Item11/15/12 1:21 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Rufus wrote:
"In 1833, ..., Houston was baptized into the Catholic faith..." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_houston#cite_note-17
Non sequitur. Moreover, he was baptized as a Baptist in 1854, which you failed to notice or admit.

If you want to bring up Catholicism in the context of secession, consider that I can name four Catholic "scholars" who have falsely characterized Lincoln as a tyrant.

137

News Item11/15/12 1:15 PM
Rufus | Fort Worth, TX  Protected NameFind all comments by Rufus
Neil wrote:
"Fellow-Citizens, in the name of your rights and liberties, which I believe have been trampled upon, I refuse to take this oath. In the name of the nationality of Texas, which has been betrayed by the Convention, I refuse to take this oath. In the name of the Constitution of Texas, I refuse to take this oath. In the name of my own conscience and manhood, which this Convention would degrade by dragging me before it, to pander to the malice of my enemies, I refuse to take this oath. I deny the power of this Convention to speak for Texas....I protest....against all the acts and doings of this convention and I declare them null and void."
Governor Sam Houston, March 1861, after being ejected from office for refusing to take an oath of loyalty to the Confederacy. And he was a slaveowner.
"In 1833, ..., Houston was baptized into the Catholic faith..." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_houston#cite_note-17
136

News Item11/15/12 1:14 PM
Marty | Usa  Find all comments by Marty
Neil,

The attack on the fort was an act of war by a foreign government, not treason.

135

News Item11/15/12 12:50 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
"Fellow-Citizens, in the name of your rights and liberties, which I believe have been trampled upon, I refuse to take this oath. In the name of the nationality of Texas, which has been betrayed by the Convention, I refuse to take this oath. In the name of the Constitution of Texas, I refuse to take this oath. In the name of my own conscience and manhood, which this Convention would degrade by dragging me before it, to pander to the malice of my enemies, I refuse to take this oath. I deny the power of this Convention to speak for Texas....I protest....against all the acts and doings of this convention and I declare them null and void."

Governor Sam Houston, March 1861, after being ejected from office for refusing to take an oath of loyalty to the Confederacy. And he was a slaveowner.

134

News Item11/15/12 11:56 AM
Angela Wittman | SW Illinois  Find all comments by Angela Wittman
Folks, As a Christian and a volunteer with Christian Exodus and former campaign worker for Larry "Secede" Kilgore, I really feel the duty of cautioning those who have become interested in secession. America has enemies abroad and within who would like nothing better than to see our country dissolve into chaos and civil war. So, please proceed cautiously with the Bible as your guide. Do not believe some of the outrageous stories circulating on the internet like America's military was planning a coup, etc. Use discernment and common sense - and be a Berean (Sorry, not too sure about the spelling.)
Now as far as signing the states rights and separation petitions at the White House website - hey, that's fine IMO as we are simply stating our disagreement with the way this nation is headed and, believe me, it gets the attention of legislators which is what we need.
133

News Item11/15/12 11:43 AM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Rufus wrote:
but I would not qualify it as a civil war but a repeat of the former war of 1861-1864. This was a war of northern/Union aggression against another country or U.S.A versus the C.S.A. or N.W.O. vs. O.W.O.
Nonsense, it was rebellion against a duly-constituted government which hadn't even done anything yet. The South is guilty of starting the War by attacking a constitutional Federal fort w/o cause, it's that simple. Lincoln had every right, & the duty, to call for troops after that. The South committed Treason.

Yet the worst irony is, after the North got tired of Reconstruction, Southerners got everything they wanted back, except for de jure slavery. They still had black people to kick around. It took another century for that to get straightened out.

132

News Item11/15/12 10:22 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
John Yurich USA wrote:
1. Why do you believe that anything other than complete autonomy for churches is unscriptural? 2. And the church office of elder is not unscriptural as it is mentioned in the Bible. 3. And the church office of Bishop is not unscriptural either since it is also mentioned in the Bible. 4. And no Protestant Church has apostolic succession.
Hi John, your questions...

1. The early church had apostles and were subservient to them in terms of church order and discipline. As we have no apostles today, there is no authority except in the local church.

2. Correct, every church ought to have at least one elder.

3. Correct, although churches down the years have changed the original purpose of the role of bishop.

4. Correct, in keeping with scripture.
________

Rufus. So it is a case of "watch this space". I never thought I'd see the day.

131

News Item11/15/12 10:09 AM
Rufus | Fort Worth, TX  Protected NameFind all comments by Rufus
John UK wrote:
Wow, that is scary, Rufus. Do you mean like a civil war? The Texans would set up their own guv, separate from USA, and fight to stay that way?
I believe everything is pointing that direction. Semantical maybe, but I would not qualify it as a civil war but a repeat of the former war of 1861-1864. This was a war of northern/Union aggression against another country or U.S.A versus the C.S.A. or N.W.O. vs. O.W.O.
130

News Item11/15/12 9:52 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
John UK wrote:
If a church is autonomous (self-governing), then it is naturally called an Independent (non-denom) Church. This is the Baptist position since inception.
Baptist churches may have fellowship with one another, or form a group of churches for encouragement etc. but they all retain their independency, and all decisions are made in the individual local church.
Presbyterian churches, just as an example, are not independent. They are ruled by elders (presbyters) who meet regularly at presbytery. These elders are the elders from a group of local churches, and this is the decision-making session which can affect all the churches, especially in regard to appointments of ministers etc. (If I have this wrong, may any Presby please correct me.)
If there is no apostolic succession, then Independents have the biblical high road, as opposed to the RCC, who do believe in a.s.
Why do you believe that anything other than complete autonomy for churches is unscriptural? And the church office of elder is not unscriptural as it is mentioned in the Bible. And the church office of Bishop is not unscriptural either since it is also mentioned in the Bible. And no Protestant Church has apostolic succession.
129

News Item11/15/12 9:17 AM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
John UK -- he models himself after Lincoln. the movie is coming out soon.

he has brought into hom sec with those of gay/les persuasion, they cannot even get water to people in storm while our troops are deeply embedded around the world. people literally getting private parts touched squeezed and grabbed in airport -- open demoralizing (don't worry, the church doesn't care about this)

Bengh will be a chill -- because leadership watched for 7 hours the whole thing go down. and as I've said -- west put no-fly (highly aggressive) while rebels came in to Liby -- foundations of this was always extreme. christians dispersed, villages emptied.

high ranking officers being removed -- chill down the line.

I think he wants that kind of scenario.

out of the ashes, the Phoenix arises, at least, so they think.

am's better get a grasp of strategy used in ME -- if it works over there, they will try it here, its just simple logic.

the new agers call it kharma.

Christians say that you reap what you sow.

and so we didn't care when it happened to Mus's and Christians in the ME, so why should God hold back judgment here?

128

News Item11/15/12 8:40 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Rufus wrote:
Not right away but eventually war and/or martial law.
Wow, that is scary, Rufus. Do you mean like a civil war? The Texans would set up their own guv, separate from USA, and fight to stay that way?
127

News Item11/15/12 8:28 AM
Rufus | Fort Worth, TX  Protected NameFind all comments by Rufus
John UK wrote:
It's interesting that several other states besides Texas have filed petitions for secession. Wow that must be a huge embarrassment for the guv. And what would happen if there is a refusal? Or should I say what will happen when there IS a refusal?
Not right away but eventually war and/or martial law.
126

News Item11/15/12 8:25 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Christopher000 wrote:
Thanks, John/UK. Funny thing is that prior to following this thread and another, I thought Evangelicals meant any Christian outside of the Catholic church and I didn't know that Baptist wasn't a denomination. I thought every different Christian faith was considered a denomination.
Good morning Christopher,

If a church is autonomous (self-governing), then it is naturally called an Independent (non-denom) Church. This is the Baptist position since inception.

Baptist churches may have fellowship with one another, or form a group of churches for encouragement etc. but they all retain their independency, and all decisions are made in the individual local church.

Presbyterian churches, just as an example, are not independent. They are ruled by elders (presbyters) who meet regularly at presbytery. These elders are the elders from a group of local churches, and this is the decision-making session which can affect all the churches, especially in regard to appointments of ministers etc. (If I have this wrong, may any Presby please correct me.)

If there is no apostolic succession, then Independents have the biblical high road, as opposed to the RCC, who do believe in a.s.

125

News Item11/15/12 7:57 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
One last thing...every church I've been to that advertised as being non denominational, turned out really to be Charismatic.
124

News Item11/15/12 7:50 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
By the way, John, I'm surprized that such a well known, Biblically mature Pastor would cave into pressure instead of standing firm on Biblical principles, instruction, etc. I always wonder "what's next" when leaders in the church start bending the rules to accommodate the unruly.
123

News Item11/15/12 7:44 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Dorcas, I used to think exactly the same until a conversation was relayed to me. Two guys were chatting about whatever. During the conversation, one of the guys asked the other, "are you a Christian?" The response he got back was, "the word Christian means a lot of things these days so I prefer to call myself a follower of Christ."

This really made a lot of sense to me because it's so true. There was a time when I knew what it meant when someone claimed to be a Christian, but now, it could refer to any number of apostate religions.

122

News Item11/15/12 7:35 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Thanks, John/UK. Funny thing is that prior to following this thread and another, I thought Evangelicals meant any Christian outside of the Catholic church and I didn't know that Baptist wasn't a denomination. I thought every different Christian faith was considered a denomination. Maybe a Pentecostal isn't the same as Charismatic either? I have to do some reading on Wiki.

Yes, it's tragic to me that we are all seperated even though we read the same exact Bible. For me, my mind will forever remain open in that I will never rationalize Scripture or bend it into what I want it to say just because a Baptist Pastor tells me I have to accept every point of their theology. We should all be our own people with Christ and His word as our head and should not be seperated like immature children who can't get along when we live for the same purpose and strive for the same goals.

I just thinks it's tragic that we allow denominations to seperate us over such seemingly childish, unimportant points of contention.

I'm speaking in generalities, not about this thread.

121
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