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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  10/2/2014
SUNDAY, SEP 30, 2012  |  127 comments
US immigration chief: Same-sex ties are family ties
Same-sex couples will be considered “family relationships” in immigration proceedings, according to Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, a move that could help stem the deportation of those in gay or lesbian binational relationships.

Close family ties to the United States are a factor considered by authorities in deportation cases, and gay and lesbian advocates have long argued for same-sex couples to have the same immigration rights as opposite-sex couples.

“In an effort to make clear the definition of the phrase ‘family relationships,’ I have directed ICE to disseminate written guidance to the field that the interpretation of the phrase ‘family relationships’ includes long-term, same-sex partners,” Napolitano said in a letter. ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
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COMMENTS | show all | add new  
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Page 1 | Page 3 ·  Found: 127 user comment(s)
News Item10/4/12 11:36 AM
common sense  Find all comments by common sense
John UK wrote:
I am a "heterodox liberal" in my theology
Your short term memory is extremely short isn't it John.

Why not read your own posts below to find your errors.

John posted below quote, "he will be assisted by those who regard the Bible more than the writings of men, or solemn leagues, covenants, and so forth." 10/4/12 6:28AM

Thus you have arrogantly opposed yourself and posting accomplices against the writers of covenants creeds and standards of Reformed history.

===============

Frank wrote:
I think you are arguing with what I call roman/protestants. Rome said that if you don't believe our creeds are infallible then you are anathema; those who follow or rely on creeds today are saying the same thing, but just phrasing and spinning it differently.
I see you think the Reformers, Puritans and Covenanters were a bunch of liars too???
Such arrogance is UNChristian to say the least. Putting yourself above the 16th century Christians you are declaring that; You can read the Bible - They can't.
Thus you also are implying God is incompetent and ineffectual in history.
87

News Item10/4/12 11:35 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Frank wrote:
John,
I think you are arguing with what I call roman/protestants. Rome said that if you don't believe our creeds are infallible then you are anathema; those who follow or rely on creeds today are saying the same thing, but just phrasing and spinning it differently. 1 Cor. 1:12-13 KJV
Ah, you may just have it there, Frank. Romish Protestants eh? With their own Protestant Popes and Bulls? Infallible and inerrant doctrines, even when formulated by mere men who were sinners just like me?

I tell you what, ol' bro. Genuine fellowship can be felt in the spirit, and is most beneficial and edifying.

86

News Item10/4/12 11:21 AM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
John,

I think you are arguing with what I call roman/protestants. Rome said that if you don't believe our creeds are infallible then you are anathema; those who follow or rely on creeds today are saying the same thing, but just phrasing and spinning it differently. 1 Cor. 1:12-13 KJV

The differences between the plowmen and the reformers were the plowmen were put to death if they read scripture for themselves and the reformers were educated and could read latin and greek. Oh yes, and of course God did call them to do His bidding in His perfect timing and in His perfect way.

Lurker,

Thanks for your post. I have often felt I was alone in my loneliness, but now I know that others are in similar circumstances. God is so good to let me know that! If you think about it, if we are alone how would we know there are others like us; so I thank Him for your post? I will put you on my prayer list because "I know" you need it if He has called you to this kind of life.

85

News Item10/4/12 11:14 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
common sense wrote:
1. No it is the conclusion provided by your post below.
2. If the Holy Spirit indwells modern man in the same way as 16th century man - Then truth would be the same then as now. Curiously though you do not seem to be able to agree with the 16th century truth as you have posted below. Now I wonder why that is. Who are we supposed to believe 16th century Reformers/theologians - or John UK and friend??
1. Why be so vague? Just quote me, and have done with it. Prove your case.

2. You say, "Curiously though you do not seem to be able to agree with the 16th century truth as you have posted below." And can you prove this assertion? Quote me, and have done with it. Prove your case.

But then, we've been through all this many times in the past, and you've never come up with the goods. You make great swelling accusations, yet never seem to be able to point to anything I've said to prove your point.

So come on, out with it, and show where I am a "heterodox liberal" in my theology, and we can make a start on having a good discussion, where you can cut and paste all your Puritans, and I can quote God's word.

84

News Item10/4/12 10:20 AM
common sense  Find all comments by common sense
Lurker wrote:
"wrote the truth" Are you serious?
I presume then what you believe is that they wrote lies!!

Taking that concept to its natural conclusion I presume then that you believe truth did not arrive as exegesis of Scripture until Lurker was born!

========

John UK wrote:
1. Read again what you wrote. It is nonsense.
2. Why do you think that? Does not the same Holy Ghost indwell believers today?
1. No it is the conclusion provided by your post below.
2. If the Holy Spirit indwells modern man in the same way as 16th century man - Then truth would be the same then as now. Curiously though you do not seem to be able to agree with the 16th century truth as you have posted below. Now I wonder why that is. Who are we supposed to believe 16th century Reformers/theologians - or John UK and friend??
83

News Item10/4/12 9:54 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
common sense wrote:
1. What you are fighting against is God and truth.
2. May God provide you with the good sense to repent of your evil heart.
1. How so?
2. How so?
82

News Item10/4/12 8:20 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
common sense wrote:
1. So what you are saying is that the local posters here are more Biblically 'literate' than the Reformers, Puritans and Covenanters who gave their lives for God and wrote the truth which is brought to us today by the Reformed Church.
2. If you actually believe that the modern church is more sound in their doctrine and exegesis of Scripture than the Reformers, Puritans and Covenanters then I can only feel very sorry for your incompetence and ignorance in perceiving truth in Scripture.
3. You are clearly more Liberal than orthodox.
You raise a lot of questions, so I will comment on just these.

1. Read again what you wrote. It is nonsense.

2. Why do you think that? Does not the same Holy Ghost indwell believers today? Is his power any less? Does he teach less truth? And yet the modern Reformed Church must be an embarrasment to those who have gone before. They believed in sola scriptura - you look to men.

3. I will ask you to enlighten me as to why you say that, but from past experience I doubt you will answer me. Produce your evidence and I will listen.

Lurker I'll say more tonight. I appreciate your fellowship. It's a shame the P's can't.

81

News Item10/4/12 7:18 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
John UK wrote:
I also noticed this, Lurker.
Tell you what, if he hasn't replied by tonight, I will give you the biblical definition (which you already know, being biblically literate) and hopefully he will be assisted by those who regard the Bible more than the writings of men, or solemn leagues, covenants, and so forth.
Deal.

Btw, I was so glad to read your recent comment about the minister who moved to your area and started a bible study group. I have the same problem as you did and Frank does in that there is not a church or study group in my area which I feel good about attending. If it weren't for occasional interaction on SA, I'd have no Christian fellowship at all. But, praise God, for He promised to never leave or foresake His own and He is faithful who promised.

common sense wrote:
So what you are saying is that the local posters here are more Biblically 'literate' than the Reformers, Puritans and Covenanters who gave their lives for God and wrote the truth which is brought to us today by the Reformed Church.
"wrote the truth" Are you serious?

The sole deposit of truth for English speaking people is the free from the dictates of church and state vernacular bible first delivered to the saints in 1560.

80

News Item10/4/12 7:06 AM
common sense  Find all comments by common sense
John UK wrote:
those who regard the Bible more than the writings of men, or solemn leagues, covenants, and so forth.
So what you are saying is that the local posters here are more Biblically 'literate' than the Reformers, Puritans and Covenanters who gave their lives for God and wrote the truth which is brought to us today by the Reformed Church.

If you actually believe that the modern church is more sound in their doctrine and exegesis of Scripture than the Reformers, Puritans and Covenanters then I can only feel very sorry for your incompetence and ignorance in perceiving truth in Scripture. You are clearly more Liberal than orthodox.

God powerfully blessed the Reformers, Puritans and Covenanters in their battle against heresy and ignorance in the church during these centuries past. The Biblical Protestant Church was blessed and guided by the Lord to bring Scripture to the people from the Reformation onwards. What you are fighting against is God and truth.

Truth has not changed since Scripture was written and recorded by God. Truth is truth and always has been. You and your friend apparently deny this which is to deny God's work in witness throughout history. May God provide you with the good sense to repent of your evil heart.

79

News Item10/4/12 6:28 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Lurker wrote:
Apparently Paul wasn't a "good Biblical Calvinist PRESBYTERIAN" .....
1Cr 13:12-13 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
..... for he knew who enabled him and NEVER failed to give Him all the glory.... something that is noticeably absent from the elitist Calvinist Presbys.
I also noticed this, Lurker.

Tell you what, if he hasn't replied by tonight, I will give you the biblical definition (which you already know, being biblically literate) and hopefully he will be assisted by those who regard the Bible more than the writings of men, or solemn leagues, covenants, and so forth.

78

News Item10/3/12 9:47 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Walling wrote:
Well if you two [John UK & Frank] cannot understand the Scripture just ask a good Biblical Calvinist PRESBYTERIAN and he will reveal all to you.
I asked twice if you would help us out with the biblical definition of "truth". Did your offer have an expiration date?

Apparently Paul wasn't a "good Biblical Calvinist PRESBYTERIAN" .....

1Cr 13:12-13 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

..... for he knew who enabled him and NEVER failed to give Him all the glory.... something that is noticeably absent from the elitist Calvinist Presbys.

77

News Item10/3/12 3:08 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
trainingjohn.com wrote:
In divine monergism...
Still paddling in the shallows, eh?
76

News Item10/3/12 2:53 PM
trainingjohn.com  Find all comments by trainingjohn.com
John UK wrote:
Who is interested
"In divine monergism, regeneration precedes faith (not temporally, but causally). So regeneration, faith and justification are not separate events in time yet are distinguished as to what they do. How can this be? Well consider that fire and heat, sight and seeing or having ears and hearing all occur simultaneously. But one must first have sight to see, or ears to hear or fire to have heat. Once your eyes are opened you see; once your ears are unplugged, you hear and once God grants us a new heart we are already believing. To think causally rather than temporally consider this: If a pool ball rolls on the table to strike another, both strike at exactly the same time, but only the ball that moves and strikes the other causes the other one to move. Likewise, the order of events in the Bible is always grace causally preceding action. For example Ezekiel 11:19-20
I will give them one heart, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in my statutes and keep my rules and obey them. And they shall be my people, and I will be their God." (J.Hendryx)
75

News Item10/3/12 1:57 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Who is interested in Wesley's theology?

Not I.

I wanted to talk about ephods and the OT atonement type.

74

News Item10/3/12 1:45 PM
trainingjohn.com  Find all comments by trainingjohn.com
John UK wrote:
bit deeper
The cure!
"The Wesleyan understanding of prevenient grace differs from the Calvinistic conception of common grace in one important area. In the Calvinistic scheme common grace does not and cannot lead to salvation. It functions to restrain evil in the world but does not lead unbelievers to faith. For Wesleyans, prevenient grace may lead one to salvation. Cox rightly says, "The Wesleyan teaches that the prevenient grace leads on to saving grace, prepares for it, enables a person to enter into it." Indeed, in Wesley's theology it seems that a proper response to prevenient grace could lead to the salvation of those who have not heard the gospel. What we are interested in exploring, however, is not how prevenient grace affects those who have never heard the gospel. The distinctive aspect of prevenient grace that is relevant for our discussion is that it provides the ability to choose salvation, an ability that was surrendered by Adam's sin. Wesley describes it as follows:
"Salvation begins with what is usually termed (and very properly) preventing grace; including the first wish to please God, the first dawn of light concerning his will, and the first slight transient conviction of having sinned against him." (T.R.Schreiner)
73

News Item10/3/12 1:23 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
trainingjohn.com wrote:
The bondage of the will, then, is a slavery to our own desires.
Ah, so you want to do 2 + 2 = 4.

I'm sorry, but I'd like to go a bit deeper than that.

72

News Item10/3/12 10:23 AM
trainingjohn.com  Find all comments by trainingjohn.com
John UK wrote:
ephods
Anti-Wesleyanism;
"The bondage of the will, then, is a slavery to our own desires. Unregenerate human beings are captivated by what they want to do! Jesus himself diagnosed sinning as an indication of slavery. "Everyone who sins is a slave to sin" (John 8:34; cf. 2 Pet. 2:19). Paul confirms that unregenerate people are slaves of sin. He reminds the Romans that "you are slaves to sin" (Rom. 6:17) and speaks of the time "when you were slaves to sin" (Rom. 6:20). They had presented "the parts of [their] bod[ies] in slavery to impurity and ever-increasing wickedness" (Rom. 6:19). Believers have been crucified with Christ "so that the body of sin
might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin" (Rom. 6:6). If Christ died so that we should no longer be slaves to sin, the clear implication is that we were formerly slaves to sin. Sin is described in Romans 6 as a power that holds its captives in thralldom.
Unbelievers are enslaved to sin in the sense that all they want to do is sin. They are free to do what is good in the sense that they have opportunities to do so. They fail to avail themselves of these opportunities, however, because they do not desire to do what is good." (T.R.Schreiner)
71

News Item10/3/12 5:26 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Did Presby not want to talk about high priests and their ephods and the atonement types? Or perhaps he couldn't find a suitable article by John Owen to match my question? Probably both.
70

News Item10/2/12 11:24 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Walling wrote:
It is not me that needs to define truth. I know what truth is and I can exegete Scripture correctly.
Great!

So why are you reluctant to help a brother in need (by your estimation) of enlightenment?

What is sweeter than honey? What is stronger than a lion? (Judges 14:18)

What is sharper than a two-edged sword? (Hebrews 4:12)

What is biblical "truth"? (John 13:38)

Walling wrote:
Apparently you are in agreement with this team. Good luck with your search.
What "search" would that be?
69

News Item10/2/12 3:38 PM
Limited Atonement | IS Biblical  Find all comments by Limited Atonement
Frank wrote:
I and all others who come to Christ have been particularly redeemed (elected)
"Let it not be thought that the Arminian by his doctrine escapes limited atonement. The truth is that he professes a despicable doctrine of limited atonement. He professes an atonement that is tragically limited in its efficacy and power, an atonement that does not secure the salvation of any. He indeed eliminates from the atonement that which makes it supremely precious to the Christian heart. In B. B. Warfield's words, "the substance of the atonement is evaporated, that it may be given a universal reference." (The Plan of Salvation, p. 122.) What we mean is, that unless we resort to the position of universal restoration for all mankind ? a position against which the witness of Scripture is decisive ? an interpretation of the atonement in universal terms must nullify its properly substitutive and redemptive character. We must take our choice between a limited extent and a limited efficacy, or rather between a limited atonement and an atonement without efficacy. It either infallibly saves the elect or it actually saves none." (J.Murray)
68
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