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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  8/20/2014
WEDNESDAY, JAN 22, 2014  |  40 comments
Christian Apologist Ravi Zacharias Discusses What It Means to Be Human at BYU

Renowned Christian apologist Ravi Zacharias spoke to about 400 students and faculty members at Brigham Young University on Friday and addressed the question, "What does it mean to be human?"

Zacharias spoke at the university, which is sponsored by the Mormon Church, as a part of the school's "Faith, Family and Society" lecture series.

"If you ask me what has been the loss in our time, I think truly it has been the loss of definitions," he said, indicating that society no longer knows how to define things like good, evil, family, the "sacredness of sexuality" and what it means to be human. ...


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Page 1 | Page 2 ·  Found: 40 user comment(s)
News Item1/22/14 3:23 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
DJC49 wrote:
The signatories agreed with your assessment of what the document was supposed to do, but the fact still remains that they gave doctrinal approval of heretical movements. I know from reading some of your earlier posts that you also understand that the RCC is heretical. Now like I said, I wouldn’t do that if it saved billions of lives and brought the homosexual movement to a complete standstill. THAT WAS MY CONCERN. Lying to accomplish a social or moral change is never appropriate.

My real concern was with the document itself, not with who signed it. In other words, I never considered whether some “individuals” were wheat and some were tares. It was lending credence to false doctrines. Getting it backwards will lead you to not understand my point. The document was heretical and whoever signed it signed an heretical declaration. In your hypothetical, if I somehow knew with any degree of certainty that the church document contained the signatures of unsaved folks, then I would not sign it or endorse it if it said otherwise. That would be a lie, especially if it led others in the wrong direction or gave them a false sense of security.

20

News Item1/22/14 3:12 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
No one has asked, but imo Ravi is quite ok. I recommend reading his books, including his "Walking From East to West" and listening to his "Let My People Think" broadcast.
19

News Item1/22/14 3:00 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
interrogative wrote:
The only mode of local transport revealed in the Bible is the donkey. I hope you don't use a car Neil?
How silly! Is it so hard to tell I am speaking of what *churches* may do, not individuals, who have much more liberty?

Anyone calling themselves "interrogative" should know the difference between the imperative & indicative sense.

18

News Item1/22/14 2:57 PM
interrogative  Find all comments by interrogative
Neil wrote:
I don't care what Great Missionaries did, for they are mere men; I care only for what God requires of us, as stated in His revealed Word
The only mode of local transport revealed in the Bible is the donkey. I hope you don't use a car Neil?
17

News Item1/22/14 2:47 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
penny wrote:
when the robbers come at the door, I know not of one church that wouldn't call the cops and reform the situation.
..
We remind each other of the great missionaries, they had an effect on law and society.
I'm surprised I must say this here, but I don't care what Great Missionaries did, for they are mere men; I care only for what God requires of us, as stated in His revealed Word. Now, if Christian persons want to do something possibly beneficial to society (though it is presumptuous to claim it is, Jas. 4:13-15), like open an Urgent Care clinic, fine, but this *cannot* be a church ministry, for there is NO BIBLICAL WARRANT for it.

Arresting malefactors is a Biblical civil duty of individuals, not the corporate church. Hence this is no contradiction of my point.

And I say Al Mohler & others erred in signing the Manhatten Declaration. It is up to God to condemn him or not.

16

News Item1/22/14 2:41 PM
DJC49 | Florida  Find all comments by DJC49
Neil wrote:
In addition to Frank's good comments, the Manhatten Declarations's basic error is adding social/political reform to those organized church duties expressly commanded in Scripture, which are to worship God & to teach & discipline the faithful, no more. The Apostles never spoke or acted otherwise, despite ancient Rome's egregious moral shortcomings.
A secondary error is its blatant whitewash of church history. This alone is why Protestants, in particular, should have nothing to do with it.
I understand your points, Neil, and they are good ones! I will reconsider my personal position.

However, having stated that, I will NOT condemn others -- faithful brothers IN Christ -- for their signing the Manhatten Declaration.

penny wrote:
We remind each other of the great missionaries, they had an effect on law and society.

The hospitals and universities were created by those who had an optimistic view, believing they could learn and grow in Christ in real life.... to call this dominionism is really just waiting for Christians who are active in their fields of work and community to cut them off at the ankles.

Touche, penny! Excellent post indeed!
15

News Item1/22/14 2:35 PM
penny  Find all comments by penny
"social reform" is quite high language.

when the robbers come at the door, I know not of one church that wouldn't call the cops and reform the situation.

I have high regard for Ravi Zacharias.

We remind each other of the great missionaries, they had an effect on law and society.

The hospitals and universities were created by those who had an optimistic view, believing they could learn and grow in Christ in real life.... to call this dominionism is really just waiting for Christians who are active in their fields of work and community to cut them off at the ankles.

14

News Item1/22/14 2:04 PM
DJC49 | Florida  Find all comments by DJC49
Frank wrote:
Anyway, the part that I and others object to is its inclusiveness.
I fully understand your concern.
However, the OBJECTIVES of the Manhatten Declaration was NOT to declare who was or wasn't Christian. It specifically addressed 3 matters of tremendous concern: sanctity of life; marriage; and religious freedom. THAT was its focus and impetus.

Frank wrote:
Now here are some questions for you. Would you tell someone that a movement was Christian, if it wasn't?
I'll answer by asking you a question:

Would you approve of a document/declaration likened to the Manhatten Declaration if all the members of your local church signed it (for whatever cause or movement) which stated in its introduction that all the undersigned CHRISTIANS agreed to its terms KNOWING that there were tares and wheat even in your own local church?

13

News Item1/22/14 1:23 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
In addition to Frank's good comments, the Manhatten Declarations's basic error is adding social/political reform to those organized church duties expressly commanded in Scripture, which are to worship God & to teach & discipline the faithful, no more. The Apostles never spoke or acted otherwise, despite ancient Rome's egregious moral shortcomings.

A secondary error is its blatant whitewash of church history. This alone is why Protestants, in particular, should have nothing to do with it.

12

News Item1/22/14 12:42 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
DJC49 wrote:
Have you people ever actually READ the Manhatten Declaration? I doubt it. It addresses 3 issues:
1) the sanctity of human life,
2) the dignity of marriage as a union of husband and wife, and
3) the freedom of conscience and religion
And states further that these 3 "are foundational principles of justice and the common good, [which] we are compelled by our Christian faith to speak and act in their defense"
Terrible stuff ... huh.
Of course I read it, otherwise I wouldn't have commented on it. Anyway, the part that I and others object to is its inclusiveness. It clearly says that Catholic and Orthodox churches are Christian. Now in my opinion, saying that those movements are Christian is heresy.

Now here are some questions for you. Would you tell someone that a movement was Christian, if it wasn't? Would you do this to save 1 million lives? How about 10 billion lives? In other words, are you into relativism and/or pragmatism and think that doing something sinful is okay if it can sort of help God out?

Your thoughts are compatible with the Kingdom Now or dominionist movements, but perhaps I am wrong. In order for them to succeed, they have to do things like sign those heretical documents.

Agree ldsnowin

11

News Item1/22/14 12:42 PM
ldsnowin  Find all comments by ldsnowin
Ravi Zacharias just handed the LDS Church the lucky golden ticket into the Christian Church. They're fully assimilated now.
10

News Item1/22/14 12:02 PM
For your consideration  Find all comments by For your consideration
http://www.truthforlife.org/blog/manhattan-declaration/.

http://www.gty.org/resources/print/articles/A390

http://www.matthewnederlanden.com/articles/reject-the-manhattan-declaration.php

9

News Item1/22/14 11:53 AM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
Frank wrote:
I agree with you Mike. Both signed the Manhatten Declaration which gave credence to every abomination there is.
Every abomination?! LOL

Thats very funny, and about what I would expect from your academic qualifications in theological matters. I actually found one of the original copies of this in my basement just last week. I dont agree with it, and no it doesnt contain 'every abomination there is.' Further, I know several respectable Christians that have signed it.

8

News Item1/22/14 11:52 AM
DJC49 | Florida  Find all comments by DJC49
Frank wrote:
I agree with you Mike. Both signed the Manhatten Declaration which gave credence to every abomination there is.
Have you people ever actually READ the Manhatten Declaration? I doubt it. It addresses 3 issues:

1) the sanctity of human life,
2) the dignity of marriage as a union of husband and wife, and
3) the freedom of conscience and religion

And states further that these 3 "are foundational principles of justice and the common good, [which] we are compelled by our Christian faith to speak and act in their defense"

Terrible stuff ... huh.

7

News Item1/22/14 11:38 AM
MCS  Find all comments by MCS
Compromisers to the nth degree!!
6

News Item1/22/14 11:32 AM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Mike wrote:
Another compromiser of the faith. Why is he having fellowship with people who say they are Christian. But deny the work of Christ? This guy, and new Calvinist al Mohler, need to stop playing buddy buddy
With these deniers of the faith, and Preach the Word!
I agree with you Mike. Both signed the Manhatten Declaration which gave credence to every abomination there is.
5

News Item1/22/14 10:56 AM
DJC49 | Florida  Find all comments by DJC49
Mike wrote:
Another compromiser of the faith. Why is he having fellowship with people who say they are Christian. But deny the work of Christ? This guy, and new Calvinist al Mohler, need to stop playing buddy buddy
With these deniers of the faith, and Preach the Word!
Ravi Zacharias and Albert Mohler are compromisers of the Faith?
Are you serious?
4

News Item1/22/14 10:26 AM
Mike | Florida  Find all comments by Mike
Another compromiser of the faith. Why is he having fellowship with people who say they are Christian. But deny the work of Christ? This guy, and new Calvinist al Mohler, need to stop playing buddy buddy
With these deniers of the faith, and Preach the Word!
3

News Item1/22/14 9:31 AM
definitions  Find all comments by definitions
""he said, indicating that society no longer knows how to define things like good, evil, family, the "sacredness of sexuality" and what it means to be human.""

That amorphous tribe called "society" has never known what "good, evil, family or decent sexual behaviour" is anyway. Come to think of it society doesn't know what 'sin' is either and 'sin' covers the iniquitous source of all these terms anyway.

Sin iniquity and transgression is the mind set and flesh foundation of all sinners whether grouped together or individual.

Thus all sinners are unable to comprehend Christian 'definitions' of sin evil morals etc etc etc.

What all sinners need is Christ.

Only HE can bring the definitions which lead to life, truth and God.

Matt 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

2

News Item1/22/14 7:57 AM
danfromtn2 | Tennessee  Find all comments by danfromtn2
In his talk he said "When you carry the message of what it means to be human as given to us in our Christian worldview..." which would give the impression to his audience that he was including them as Christians which is damnable.

17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

1
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