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FRIDAY, APRIL 25, 2014 | TIPS Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
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Choice News FRIDAY, OCT 18, 2013| 59 comments| 6 commentaries
John McArthur vs. The Charismatic Church

Michael Brown, writer and journalist for Charisma News and Charisma Magazine, has penned a piece asking John MacArthur, world renown bible teacher, Pastor and author, to recant his strong stand against the Charismatic Church and reign in the harsh words that he uses to describe their doctrine, dogma and philosophy.

As always my desire is for you to know the truth and many of you are already aware that I am NOT a fan of the Charismatic Church or their doctrines. Of course theirs is not the only doctrine gone astray from scripture, but since this is the topic at hand, I will stick to the Charismatic Church vs. the ultra-Conservative John MacArthur. According to Michael Brown, it is now an all out war.

John MacArthur points out in his book Charismatic Chaos and in his upcoming book Strange Fire that the Apostolic gifts of the Holy Spirit are no longer in operation or are a part of the modern day ...


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Page 1 | Page 2 ·  Found: 59 user comment(s)
News Item10/26/13 2:13 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
While John MacArthur's book in paperback form can be had for $5 or 6 not counting shipping, Charismatic Chaos, I believe the whole thing can be had on the Internet for free, Charismatic Chaos I would really suggest you read what John has to say about Charismatic nonsense, or what is in the piece, The Charismatic Movement--35 DOCTRINAL ISSUES or even such sermons as Some Gifts Not Present Today.

No, Penny, Christian Zionists: The Real Terrorists? I will agree that wars by Baby Bush, were over kill, Islam is at war with Christianity, The Christian Era in the Middle East is Over.

Oh, The Biblical Position on The KJV Controversy, basically by John MacArthur.

39

News Item10/25/13 11:17 PM
Rev. Joel Garrett | Kathmandu, Nepal  Find all comments by Rev. Joel Garrett
I notice that "Holy Ghost Baptism" detractors have not even one scripture to back up their unbiblical OPINION. Some actually say that because the Bible is now written, the church doesn't need the gifts of the Holy Ghost. That's extraordinary fiction. Maybe they are basing their doctrine on their own lack of personal experience and faulty Bible exegesis. It shows that maybe they haven't read I Corinthians 12, 13& 14. The King James was originally published in 1611. Hallelujah! It is the BEST English translation. So, does that mean that all of the gifts were good for the church until 1611? Hogwash! The Bible, as a collection of books, does not replace the nine gifts of the Holy Ghost. Actually, the gifts are there to confirm the Word of God to the believer and unbeliever alike - as well as to edify the believer and be a sign to the unbeliever.

I asked God to reveal the truth to me. "Lord if the gifts are for me today, then I want them. If they're not, then keep me from them." I've seen so many miracles. God is so faithful to confirm His Word. It's time we take all of the Bible literally; not just our favorite sections. Miracles, signs, wonders, healings, prophecies, etc. are to be used for God's glory, for the individual's or church's edification and to bring souls to salvation

38

News Item10/24/13 10:29 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Thank you...
37

News Item10/24/13 10:17 AM
penny  Find all comments by penny
John UK -- if you read the NT it doesn't say there are healers, but that there is a manifestion of healing. I can pray for someone else to be saved, that doesn't make me a Savior.

God is glorified in this, because it glorified him then. It wasn't limited to the apostles, and 1 Cor was one of first books, it was establishing the ways of the church for the first churches, for the congregation of believers.

JohnMc taught retributive war on Larry King Live.

He will have to stand before God on this.

No matter how nice his commentaries are to some, he denies Christ's Kingship, teaches that Jewish people will be saved by "seeing Jesus" at His Second Coming (thanks to 5 pt salt blog for writing this stuff out), instead of teaching that for them salvation is "today" as it is for Gentiles!

Its Christian Zionism.

And what does this lead to? the love of the brethren diminishes. I hardly see a tear in his eye for the persecution of the brethren due to globalist intervention.

Not a tear.

He acts as a prophet but keeps the prophetic office away from the rest of the church.

If one wants to refute charismania, I will listen to one who is filled with the Holy Spirit, not one constantly diminishing the power of God (which is a stifling of the Holy Spirit)

36

News Item10/24/13 6:42 AM
Poppy5 | Baton Rouge, LA  Find all comments by Poppy5
Rev. Joel Garrett wrote:
Charismatic confusion is when a Christian doesn't understand that there are three types of Tongues in the New Testament. Many Bible-believing followers of Jesus have this confusion, because they've not been Biblically taught about this important gift that God gives to His believers.
When the church was in its infancy, it babbled like an infant in confusion, but when the Bible was complete, "it put away childish things". Now, if any man shall add unto scripture with new revelation in tongues, (which is what these are - 1 Cor. 14:7) . . . See Rev. 22:18-19
35

News Item10/24/13 5:30 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Rev. Joel Garrett wrote:
Charismatic confusion is when a Christian doesn't understand that there are three types of Tongues in the New Testament. Many Bible-believing followers of Jesus have this confusion, because they've not been Biblically taught about this important gift that God gives to His believers.

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Mark 16:15-18

If Christians have all this power and spiritual ability, how come we don't make much of an impression in the world. They said of the early church folks that they were turning the world upside down.

If I had the power to heal people, I would sell all that I had (and give the money to the poor) and take to the road in a habit, walking everywhere, and heal all the sick in Wales. Then I would go on to England and heal all the sick there. Then I would go to Scotland and.....

I would be running and leaping and praising God, singing loudly in tongues, casting out devils until there was none left on the planet, I'd eat vipers for breakfast and drink from puddles.

34

News Item10/24/13 1:37 AM
Rev. Joel Garrett | Kathmandu, Nepal  Find all comments by Rev. Joel Garrett
Charismatic confusion is when a Christian doesn't understand that there are three types of Tongues in the New Testament. Many Bible-believing followers of Jesus have this confusion, because they've not been Biblically taught about this important gift that God gives to His believers.

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Mark 16:15-18

"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)" John 7:38&39

In Acts 2 we see Christians speaking in Tongues as the listeners hear the message in their own language.

In Acts 12 Paul discusses the Gift of Tongues; which is when a Christian gives a message to the congregation in Tongues, then sits down to wait for someone else to stand up and give the Interpretation of Tongues.

In Acts 14 and Jude vs. 20 we see Christians PRAYING in Tongues.

It's time to take God's word literally.

33

News Item10/23/13 12:09 PM
R. K. Borill | Baton Rouge, Louisiana  Protected NameFind all comments by R. K. Borill
I agree with John McAuthur on this. I say if they are declaring an intellectual war, "BRING IT ON". Nonsense is no match for logical (logos) thinking.
32

News Item10/22/13 3:43 PM
CHyatt | Alabama  Find all comments by CHyatt
The biggest problem, other than the closed canon/ongoing revelation issue, is that those who love "Spiritual gifts" generally don't use them as God's Word commands it. They love chapt. 12 of 1 Cor. but ignore chapt. 14. A person doesn't just "speak in tongues" and then sit down and wait for an interpreter. (See v. 28.) They forget that, by implication in chapt. 14, this is a controllable act, and one may choose to NOT speak in tongues if there is found to be no interpreter present.

I attend a nondenominational church that essentially split from a Church of God congregation, and I've pointed this Scripture out to my pastor. Now he makes sure that if tongues are spoken, someone interprets; usually it's the same girl (in her early 20's) who starts yelling "in tongues" when she feels emotionally overwhelmed "by the Spirit". Last Sunday our pastor made her interpret herself, and she made a seriously bad theological statement--that God needs us. I'd walk out on that church except that one of the words I hear when she does this is "Adonai" so I'm trying to keep an open mind.

As the song says, it's more than a feeling, folks. "The heart is deceitful above all things . . ." Jer. 17:9

31

News Item10/21/13 11:19 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Rev. Joel Garrett wrote:
Charismatic confusion is not knowing that there are three types of Tongues in the New Testament.
Meaning no disrespect, Reverend.... nonsense.

There are two languages consistently spoken of throughout the bible; the language God's people understand and any other language they don't understand. "Stammering" is an example of the latter.....

Isa 32:1-4 ¶ Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment. And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken. The heart also of the rash shall understand knowledge, and the tongue of the stammerers shall be ready to speak plainly.

Paul, a Roman citizen who obviously spoke the Roman language, was among the stammerers who spoke plainly after his calling (Is 28:11 cf 1 Cor 14:21). That's why he confessed to being "rude in speech, yet not in knowledge" (2 Cor 11:6).

God said...

Zep 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

... which first come to pass at Pentecost; the vernacular language of God's people.

If it isn't an intelligible cultural language, it isn't of God and certainly not a gift of the HS.

30

News Item10/21/13 3:48 PM
G.Early | Sfg  Find all comments by G.Early
Rev. Joel Garrett wrote:
Charismatic confusion
The only confusion around the ecclesiastical communities is charismatic heresy itself. This 'modern' hypothesis that we need Christ "plus" some mysterious so called "tongues" and some mysterious "baptism" emanating from the spiritual realm is the sin of adding to Scripture.

Christ is all you need He alone is sufficient. Those who preach anything else are liars and heretics.

Solo Christo. Christ.
Sola Scriptura. Bible.
Sola Fide. Faith.
Sola Gratia. Grace.
Soli Deo Gloria. All glory to God alone.

29

News Item10/21/13 10:46 AM
Barry from KY. | Northern KY  Find all comments by Barry from KY.
Dolores L wrote:
By the way the first was raised in that town and his father had been an Assembly of God preacher and had died of a heart attack so I could listen to his preaching it was not like a Methodist because he was raised in an Assembly. The story is too long to tell how he became a preacher at the Methodist Church. He moved away and started a Christian School with a church that he preached at.
Thank you Dolores L. I went to their website and it seems okay. How can you preach from a bible that you think could have errors?
28

News Item10/21/13 9:33 AM
Rev. Joel Garrett | Kathmandu, Nepal  Find all comments by Rev. Joel Garrett
Charismatic confusion is not knowing that there are three types of Tongues in the New Testament.

In Acts 2 we see Christians speaking in Tongues as the listener hears his message in his own tongue.

In Acts 12 Paul discusses the Gift of Tongues; which is when a Christian gives a message to the congregation in Tongues, then sits down to wait for someone else to stand up and give the Interpretation of Tongues. In Acts 14 and Jude vs. 20 we see Christians PRAYING in Tongues.

Now, no more Charismatic Confusion!

27

News Item10/20/13 9:32 PM
Dolores L | Texas  Find all comments by Dolores L
By the way the first was raised in that town and his father had been an Assembly of God preacher and had died of a heart attack so I could listen to his preaching it was not like a Methodist because he was raised in an Assembly. The story is too long to tell how he became a preacher at the Methodist Church. He moved away and started a Christian School with a church that he preached at.
26

News Item10/20/13 9:20 PM
Dolores L | Texas  Find all comments by Dolores L
Barry, please don't think I am condemning the whole group of Methodists because there are true belivers that go there..what I know of them is from my past when I was about 20 yrs old. They had a great pastor at first. I was new in this town and my husband knew the pastor and suggested I go there and it was great..I questioned some things in their literature but when he moved and another pastor came he preached that Jesus was not born of a virgin..he explained away all the miracles in the Bible. A group of us started our own Bible Studies and met in each others homes to keep the faith pure and true.Some in the Church got angry at us for not accepting him. They believe in basically the Bible was written by men so there is error in somethings that are in there. I believe these men that wrote the BIBLE were inspired and lead by the Holy Spirit with no errors. Other preachers came after him but I got concerned about my small children learning to doubt God's word and God led me to a more godly church that was closer to my beliefs. Thanks for asking Barrry..hope it helped some.

rted our own Blble classes and we met at each others to keep the faith up so to speak. Well

25

News Item10/20/13 7:03 PM
Barry from KY | Northern KY  Find all comments by Barry from KY
This is a good point to ask a question I am curious about.
Dolores L from Texas, why is the United Methodist Church so bad? I have heard Jim Lincoln and others say the same thing but they never elaborate. I'm not trying to be funny or anything, just don't really know anything about their theology. If anyone can elaborate I would appreciate it, their website doesn't reveal much that's bad, not that I have clicked on every link.
24

News Item10/20/13 6:54 PM
Dolores L | Texas  Find all comments by Dolores L
I saw David Wilkerson weep while he was talking about some in the charismatic movement do damage by their false representation of the Holy Spirit by their ungodly behavior..he said some were slithering on the floor and hissing like a snake. It broke his heart to see this. I knew some charismatics but I was not one of those. At one time I was in a penetacostal church..but I see more error in the United Methodist Church than I ever saw in the penecost church. Unless you see that Christians today need the gifts of the Holy Spirit more than ever and where did it say they are no longer needed so they are no longer here?!
23

News Item10/20/13 5:47 PM
penny  Find all comments by penny
I'm at odds with both theologies.

They both teach pretrib rapture and a form of prosperity gospel, if I'm understanding correctly.

The gifts of the Holy Spirit and his powerful manifestations are to lead us to a contrite heart and a faithful walk, to empower us in times of tribulation.

I haven't seen a contrite spirit in mcrth, I don't see it, this concerns me. A true prophet (this is the office he's taken, although preventing it in others by saying that spiritual gifts are dead) loves the ones who are falling away, a contrite heart such as you would see in David Wilkerson, who would weep for those who went into charismania. Not asking him to be a big softie, but where's the contrite heart?

Where's the contrite heart for saying its God's will to go to all these adventures? Has he not see what has happened in this places? Does he not care about Christians in the ME?

His ministry does not make sense to me. Why does he teach that Christ is not on HIs throne, where is the throne of grace? When Christ said his kingdom had come, his kingdom had begun, when he fulfilled the Davidic promises, why are we told to believe the throne has been left empty all these years against 1cor15?

Why the hammering away and diminishing...

22

News Item10/20/13 3:34 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Rev. Joel Garrett wrote:
Thousands upon thousands have come to Jesus here in Nepal, leaving behind Hinduism and Buddhism, because Bible-believers here **demonstrate God's great power** through the gifts of the Holy Ghost. Hallelujah! You'll never find one scripture in which God says He's taken away any of the gifts. He's the same yesterday, today and forver.
I wonder what "God's great power" you are thinking of, Joel.

Do you believe that your Nepalese mission field cannot be converted without the expression of spiritual gift such as prophecies, tongues, healings etc?

Is God weak, that he has to "prove" anything to anyone? How about effectual calling which Whitefield and Spurgeon believed in? Did they exercise the sign gifts? How many converts did they get between them?

Does the gospel message have any power of its own?

Romans 1:16 KJV
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

And what about the signs and wonders of Satan towards the end of the age? What sort of converts will that produce?

The all-powerful Jesus, how many converts?

Etc.

21

News Item10/20/13 3:06 PM
G.Early | Sfg  Find all comments by G.Early
Rev. Joel Garrett wrote:
The nine gifts of the Holy Ghost are for the Body of Christ today
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is all that is required by the true Christian. After that faith, grace and power to follow Christ is the work of the Holy Spirit. The idea that the Holy Spirit splits these gifts up into "nine" (Or more) is blasphemous to the work of the Spirit in all situations of Christian life. You are misreading the Bible. I sincerely hope and pray that what you are teaching is not Pentecostal heresies - But actual Bible doctrines.
20
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