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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  8/28/2014
MONDAY, AUG 26, 2013  |  126 comments
Feds drop demand for baptism permits

The waters became troubled when members of Gladden Baptist Church in Salem, Mo., were unable to access a section of Sinking Creek where they had been baptizing converts for nearly 50 years. In that time, members of the congregation would accompany the pastor and baptismal candidates to the water’s edge to participate in the service. The elderly and mobility-impaired were taken to the sandbar site in vans.

This all changed when the Park Service placed large boulders blocking the sandbar to vehicle traffic, including wheelchairs.

Faye Walmsley, ONSR’s public-information officer, told the Salem Times a special-use permit has been a requirement for all First Amendment activities – public demonstrations, press events, religious services – for the past 25 years, but “we have just never actively used the authority until 2006.” ...


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Page 1 | Page 2 ·  Found: 126 user comment(s)
News Item8/31/13 2:05 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Advancing Knowledge wrote:
"Hughes Oliphant ..
His book is misnamed, should be called distorting truth. What some mystery cults believed or practiced is irrelevant to what the Bible teaches.

From Strong's Concordance

baptiz?

Pronunciation

bäp-t?'-z? (Key)

Part of Speech

verb

Root Word (Etymology)

From a derivative of ????? (G911)

TDNT Reference

1:529,92

Vines

View Entry
Outline of Biblical Usage

1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)

2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe

3) to overwhelm

Sticking to the Bible, the only way to go

106

News Item8/31/13 1:53 PM
Advancing Knowledge  Find all comments by Advancing Knowledge
"Hughes Oliphant Old cites Andre Benoit, with ref to the "dramatization" element that entered the sacrament of baptism. It is most notable (and eye opening) that without realising it some modern Baptist apologists for immersion use the same term and justify immersion on the grounds of it being a dramatization of a spiritual process. See for instance how the Arminian Baptist Oscar Brooks can speak explicitly of baptism in terms of it being "to dramatize their faith response." This is to use the very same pagan approach to the sacrament as found in the Mystery Cults of Rome. And of course modern Baptist churches are inclined to do just this, make of the sacrament something of a spectacle, demonstration or show." (British Reformed Journal 2000 p34).

PS: If I find any more gems like this I'll post them.

105

News Item8/31/13 1:24 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Servant  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
helping the poor wrote:
Amazing!! A religion "Baptist" which only came into being in the year 1521, (developing from then that is), and the original source of which is a bunch of heretics, the Anabaptists, tries to censure and malign a Biblical church such as the Presbyterian.
Remember poor Baptist that you appeared on the scene only a couple of centuries ago. And you emerged out of heretical cults the Anabaptists. And your name is fabricated from a definition of a Greek word which is wrong. And "immersion" did not come from the Bible it came from pagan initiation rites of 2000 years ago. And your reliance on so called "believers baptism" is an Arminian conviction.
ps. You should never throw stones in glass houses which your denomination has fabricated from religious and translation errors.
You need to stop reading such fiction as you are posting in this thread. You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free.
104

News Item8/31/13 1:09 PM
helping the poor  Find all comments by helping the poor
Y'wot wrote:
It is amazing what drivel can be spouted by folk indoctrinated into Presbyterianism. Not a shred of biblical proof. All mere assumptions!
Who was it that said that Presbys could never be accused of being Bereans?
Amazing!! A religion "Baptist" which only came into being in the year 1521, (developing from then that is), and the original source of which is a bunch of heretics, the Anabaptists, tries to censure and malign a Biblical church such as the Presbyterian.

Remember poor Baptist that you appeared on the scene only a couple of centuries ago. And you emerged out of heretical cults the Anabaptists. And your name is fabricated from a definition of a Greek word which is wrong. And "immersion" did not come from the Bible it came from pagan initiation rites of 2000 years ago. And your reliance on so called "believers baptism" is an Arminian conviction.

ps. You should never throw stones in glass houses which your denomination has fabricated from religious and translation errors.

103

News Item8/31/13 10:51 AM
Unprofitable Servant  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
John for JESUS wrote:
Unprofitable Servant...
As Jim Lincoln's link about baptism shows, there were different types of water baptism that the Jews practiced. I believe he was baptized to show he was becoming a disciple of Christ.
So Phillip was wrong to teach a gentile believer he needs to be baptized in water after he was saved? And again if the baptism is Spirit baptism of which ALL believers are partakers, why would Paul say Christ sent me not to baptize in I Corinthians, he did not want people to be saved?
102

News Item8/31/13 10:14 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
John for JESUS wrote:
JOHN UK...
I think it proves the word means the same thing regardless of how it is translated. If you believe it is referring to water baptisms in Christianity, then which ones? And if you believe there are multiple water baptisms, surely you believe they save us. "Repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins;" (Acts 2:38)
No it proves nothing of the sort. This is a big mistake. The same greek word can and is translated in a variety of ways, and it is the translator's work to identify the correct one, as in this example. Carry on like this, John, and you will end up doubting the English Bible.

In our text, the word is "baptisms" NOT "water baptisms". Baptism is simply to be immersed in something; in the new testament we have different baptisms mentioned.

In Acts 2:38, it is so very obviously water baptism. You reckon a sinner can get himself baptised with the Spirit to order?

Think about it. Do you know ANYONE who decided to be baptised with the Spirit and who brought it about? A sinner cannot even repent except he be quickened by the Spirit - it is a work of God.

101

News Item8/31/13 10:04 AM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
Unprofitable Servant...
As Jim Lincoln's link about baptism shows, there were different types of water baptism that the Jews practiced. I believe he was baptized to show he was becoming a disciple of Christ.
100

News Item8/31/13 9:32 AM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
J4J, are you saying that the Ethiopian Eunuch received water baptism into the Jews religion and not into the Christian church?
99

News Item8/31/13 9:17 AM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
JOHN UK...
I think it proves the word means the same thing regardless of how it is translated. If you believe it is referring to water baptisms in Christianity, then which ones? And if you believe there are multiple water baptisms, surely you believe they save us. "Repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins;" (Acts 2:38)
98

News Item8/31/13 9:07 AM
penelope  Find all comments by penelope
Christopher - if one studies the beginning church, they find a people conducting full immersion believers baptisms.
97

News Item8/31/13 7:57 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
JohnUK Wrote:
"Maybe it was just that, Christopher, to publicly launch him in his ministry.

Hi John, a lot of this goes over my head but it seems that since this is all still being argued, that there isn't any way to prove it using the bible; only inferences, and opinions? I had just figured that Jesus was the example against infant baptism. I believe in immersion because it seems that's what they did in the Bible, I don't believe that baptism saves, but is rather a public "shout out" to announce a person's conversion; a dedication, a declaration. Baptism represents forgiveness and cleansing. ..it's an act of obediance; a public testimonial, an outward confession.
All of which, a baby or a child can't possibly comprehend, hence, useless. I believe we can enter unto Heaven never being baptized; immersed into water, but it also seems to me that not doing so would be an act of disobedience. Even though the act is symbolic, I envisioned it as leaving my past sins floating in the dirty water as I stepped out. A new beginning; a fresh start...a clean slate

96

News Item8/31/13 5:34 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
John for JESUS wrote:
Do you know if the word translated washings in Heb 9:10 is the same translated baptisms in Heb 6:2?
Yes indeed it is. If the text in Heb 6:2 was referring to ceremonial washings then the translators would have put that instead of baptisms, as they did in Hebrews 9:10. That proves my point.

However, the point is simple. Do you accept the commission of Jesus Christ or not?

Matthew 28:19-20 KJV
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, BAPTIZING THEM in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the END of the world. Amen.

If you cannot see water baptism for converts here, continuing to the end of time, then there is no more that I can do for you.

95

News Item8/30/13 6:37 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
John UK wrote:
1) John, the five chapters before our text were all about Christ and the new covenant, foundational teaching. Paul is getting rather fed up with having to repeat himself, as he wants to get on to some deeper theology.
Hebrews 5:8-12 KJV
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of
The whole book of Hebrews is full of quotes from the OT and references to the Hebrew fathers in OT times. The foundation of who a high priest was is laid down in the OT. So the only way to know what it means for Jesus to be our High Priest is from an understand of what their roles were as given in the OT. Including Melchezidec. However, the Jews can move on from earthly priest and the Law now as it says in Heb 6:1-2. Do you know if the word translated washings in Heb 9:10 is the same translated baptisms in Heb 6:2?
94

News Item8/30/13 5:05 PM
Y'wot  Find all comments by Y'wot
Christian Practice wrote:
It is ordained of God in Scripture that Babies/infants, of Covenanted (Christian) parents, are to be baptised into church membership.
"The main, argument for admitting the children of believers to a place in the visible church. It was done by divine appointment in the original organization of the church in the family of Abraham. The constitution of the church in this respect has never been changed. The privilege of children has not been withdrawn, nor the duty of parents revoked. The seed of the righteous, therefore, are still entitled to a place in the visible kingdom. The only escape from this argument is by denying the identity of the church under both dispensations. But this, as we have shown, cannot be maintained. The church of God is one -- one family of children -- one brotherhood of believers, in every age and country, whatever external modifications may have been made. Unless the children of pious parents have been debarred, therefore, they are yet within the household." (C.Hodge)
It is amazing what drivel can be spouted by folk indoctrinated into Presbyterianism. Not a shred of biblical proof. All mere assumptions!

Who was it that said that Presbys could never be accused of being Bereans?

93

News Item8/30/13 4:19 PM
didactic  Find all comments by didactic
Jim Lincoln wrote:
1. keeping the Shabbat (Sabbath)
2. What the Bible Says About the Covenants
3. Water baptism is always a meaningless act for a child
1. Antinomianism Jim.

2. Covenant Theology & Its Implications Foundations a

3.
Infant Baptism as Covenant Keeping

92

News Item8/30/13 3:24 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
didactic, Jesus fulfilled all. Legalism is Shadow, Christ is Substance. For example to fulfill the command --to the Jews, not Christians-- about keeping the Shabbat (Sabbath) you would be holding your church services on Saturday -- not Sunday. While something of long read, it covers the topic well, (Oh, well, my as well give you the pdf URL this time. ) Baptism: Truth or Tradition. There are no Dispensations concerning baptism being substituted for circumcision.
What the Bible Says About the Covenants
.

Water baptism is always a meaningless act for a child, and for an adult who thinks it has any efficacy, it is actually an act of condemnation Where we part ways with the Lutherans, etc., Martin Luther's Sacramental Gospel.

91

News Item8/30/13 3:11 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
John, the five chapters before our text were all about Christ and the new covenant, foundational teaching. Paul is getting rather fed up with having to repeat himself, as he wants to get on to some deeper theology.

Hebrews 5:8-12 KJV
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

"First principles" again, foundational teaching concerning Christ our Great High Priest. To Paul, this was simple stuff like milk, to us we regard it as depthy spiritual food, which just goes to show how far away we have gone from "the depths" and are paddling about in "the shallows".

If Hebrews Ch 1-6 were milky teaching, what would his meaty teaching have been like, if the Hebrew Christians had been up for it?

90

News Item8/30/13 3:08 PM
didactic  Find all comments by didactic
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Children are never to be baptized. Are they independent of their parents, can they make a thoughtful profession of faith? The answer is, "No," to both! Some sermons on the matter
Jim. These are the Biblical sermons on the subject.

The Covenant Signs of Circumcision and Baptism

The Covenant Basis for Infant Baptism

ps: Don't forget Jim, we still use the Old Testament.

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Jesus words.

89

News Item8/30/13 2:55 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Ah, just can't point this out too many times, Baptism: Truth or Tradition, though there's a pdf on my church site this is an html file really easy to read and download, tablets, etc.

It should also be pointed out:
Israel & the Church are Different People.

Children are never to be baptized. Are they independent of their parents, can they make a thoughtful profession of faith? The answer is, "No," to both! Some sermons on the matter, Controversies Concerning Baptism and Water Baptisms in the Bible, I know the last one speaks specifically about baptizing infants, etc.

88

News Item8/30/13 2:52 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
John UK wrote:
1) John, Hebrews was written in greek, the word for "baptisms" is "baptismos". That is referring to Christian baptisms not OT ceremonial washings.
If you read verses 1 & 2 and think in terms of new covenant, you will find it makes sense. 2)Why would Paul be "laying down a foundation" of old covenant teachings?
Hebrews 6:1 KJV
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on...
If that isn't Christian doctrine.......
You'll find the terms of Christian salvation in vv1-2.
1) You may be right, though some would argue the point. The book was to the Hebrews and "baptism" would still have the same meaning to them. Do you believe in multiple water baptisms? Remember, if there is one Lord, how many baptisms?
2) He's not, that's the point! The Hebrews were supposed to move on from the foundation of the OT and move on to the more perfect teachings of Christ. The OT foreshadowed Christ, now they knew Him more completely and were supposed to stop practicing Mosaic Law and practices, which they hadn't. Such as, temple sacrifices, circumcision, and obstaining from certain foods, etc.
87
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