Jim Lincoln wrote: Christ did away with the Sabbath, if you're Jewish you know the Shabbat is on Saturday.
A Sabbath is very different from THE Sabbath. Look at the context - "a festival or a new moon or a sabbath day". This is no reference to THE Sabbath!
They had other Sabbaths apart from THE Sabbath. Your arbitrary view that THE Sabbath which is part of the 10 Commandments is done away with needs a great deal more proof than mere conjecture or a vague reference!
John Yurich USA wrote: My Dad embraced Jesus as his Savior in a foxhole in New Guinea during World War II. He must have learned that from the Catholic Church.
How did he 'embrace' him? Through the goddess Mary, or some saint? Because that's what he would have learnt from the RCC. I'll tell you what's more - he would have been taught that there is no way that Jesus can save those who only trust him (such a thought is anathema to the RCC! )- that he would have to obey the church and observe the sacraments as well to be saved.
The bad news is Pal, that if this is the 'Jesus' your dad 'embraced', he's still in his sins!
Christ did away with the Sabbath, if you're Jewish you know the Shabbat is on Saturday.
Colossians 2 16 Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.---NASB
John Yurich USA wrote: The Bible states that after the Resurrection the Apostles gave up worshipping on the Sabbath and started worshipping on Sunday.
You said the "Sabbath was done away".
Now bearing in mind that the observance of the Sabbath was part of the moral law (not the ceremonial) you are stating that one of the moral commandments has been abolished. Which, is a very big statement to make!
Do you suppose that this could have happened on the sly? That God would not have told us explicitly that a moral law was being abolished?
So, I am not interested in your logic or in circumstantials that you believe point to this. I want explicit proof please.
John Yurich USA wrote: The Bible states that Jesus rose on the first day of the week(Sunday) and Pentecost was on the first day of the week(Sunday) meaning that since then worship takes place on the Lord's Day(Sunday).
You stated specifically that the "Sabbath was done away with".
You singularly failed on substantively supporting anything that you posted and also challenged me on.
In response I simplified 1 single question to the very basics, asked repeatedly, and then drew the necessary conclusion. And thankfully, ALL Conservative movements worldwide have abandoned monetarism.
The big if: You were the one to assert "If prayer, Bible study, faith and church are the mark of a Christian, then Thatcher demonstrated this mark" but you give her the free pass of silence on the anti-Christian Shops Bill 1986 and the destruction of the Christian Sabbath.
We discussed leadership before but you dropped that one like a hot potato when presented with the facts of her unprecedented denial of Christian conscience.
You have nothing other than rhetoric to offer and are blowing smoke. Some might see see that as a fitting tribute to Mrs Thatcher indeed on this thread.
But perhaps you should be forgiven all these things if you missed all the facts because you followed Tebbit's advice to get on your bike and served a foreign despot instead. Socialism? Islam? Why serve one, when you can serve both.
Men wrote: 1. You have had ample opportunity to make a relevant response but you simply do not know what you are talking about. 2. btw - Still waiting for the Christian view on the "Christian" destruction of the Sabbath from you ... silence is golden.
1. Does insult help your cause? This discussion was about Margaret Thatcher not economic policy. As I posted, her leadership was the best over the last three decades. That was my point. Are you a Christian or just passing through? 2. Sabbath. Do you want the answer from Sabbath as a Jewish institution, or A Christian one as to its relevance today?
Monetarism was introduced in the UK by the preceding Socialist government, so that wiki entry "Thatcher implemented monetarism" is incorrect. She did not implement it, but abandoned it. But do keep advocating massive government economic intervention ...
So, let's keep it simple (and relevant) for you. Since you would have me believe that monetarism should be employed today,
1. which measure of the money supply will you use? or,
2, by which measure of the money supply can the economic policies of 1979-1990 be measured?
If you are a Monetarist these should be very easy questions to answer.
You have had ample opportunity to make a relevant response but you simply do not know what you are talking about.
btw - Still waiting for the Christian view on the "Christian" destruction of the Sabbath from you ... silence is golden.
"When Margaret Thatcher, leader of the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom, won the 1979 general election defeating the incumbent Labour Party led by James Callaghan, Britain had endured several years of severe inflation, which was rarely below 10% and by the time of the election in May 1979 stood at 10.3%. Thatcher implemented monetarism as the weapon in her battle against inflation, and succeeded at reducing it to 4.6% by 1983 â€” although this was achieved largely by the mass closure of inefficient factories, which resulted in a recession and in unemployment doubling from around 1,500,000 people to more than 3,000,000. This policy was controversial with the public and even some of her own Members of Parliament (MPs) (as well as former Conservative prime ministers Harold Macmillan and Edward Heath), but her success in the Falklands war led to a recovery in her popularity which contributed to the Conservative victory in the 1983 general election. This came at a time of a global recession, and Thatcher's monetarist policies earned her the respect of political leaders worldwide as Britain was a world leader in the fight against the recession and one of the first nations to re-establish economic growth." (wiki)
hr wrote: You really must practice what you preach.
... yet you display no knowledge of what monetarism actually is even though you preach it.
It is profoundly different to both a free market ideology, and government fiscal prudence and a balanced budget.
It involves an attempt to manage the ENTIRE economy at a macro-economic level. If you reject big-government intervention, you ought to reject this out of hand, but you give your idol a free pass on this - and Sabbath destruction.
So, let's keep it simple (and relevant) for you. Since you would have me believe that monetarism should be employed today, which measure of the money supply will you use?
by which measure of the money supply can the economic policies of 1979-1990 be measured?
FYI - Ronald Reagan abandoned monetarism in 1982. That is the pre-existing economic policy (it was introduced under Carter) that he actually rejected.
Men wrote: Do some real research for once, and find something relevant.
You really must practice what you preach. BTW As a socialist you will not see the dangers of big government (overarching bureaucracy) which Labour seeks to establish, thus destroying good house keeping in UK. Union power disabled by Mrs T. tried to extend this Big Brother mentality, but just because she did this favour for Britain you shouldn't be so blinkered in your perception of her political/economic leadership which proved more effective than any have during these last three decades.
As for Mrs. Thatcher she brought leadership to government and helped to bring Britain back into the world as a competitor economically, which is the point about the so called Big Bang.
View from another country; "When Thatcher arrived at 10 Downing Street in May 1979, Britainâ€™s first female prime minister set about smashing the existing economic order. Along with her conservative soulmate, U.S. President Ronald Reagan, she rejected the way economic policy had been conducted since the end of World War II in favor of a focus on free-market ideology that is accepted by most of the world today." (Japan Times)
Your telegraph quotation does not in any way respond to your quotation from me. The simple fact remains that Margaret Thatcher embarked on the largest big government social experiment ever, in a vain attempt to control the money supply.
After vainly changing her definition of the money supply multiple times in search of a measure she could control she eventually gave up in abject failure and quietly abandoned monetarism altogether. Do some real research for once, and find something relevant.
Measured against the standards she set for herself:- 1. Monetarism - abandoned as a failure. 2. Harmony - she brought ever more discord.
Measured against: 1. Christian values - she was the architect of the destruction of the Christian Sabbath. 2. Leadership values - she introduced a 3 line whip to destroy the Christian Sabbath denying her MP's a free vote on a matter of conscience. No wonder she suffered the biggest parliamentary rebellion in history. Sadly, she had sown the seeds of the bitter harvest being reaped by families today. Ever wondered why there is no moral backbone and leadership in Conservative MP's today? - look at who took away the right to a moral conscience for them!
Jim - BBC World News is available 24 hrs a day- moan to your TV provider.
Men wrote: abandoned by ALL Conservative movements worldwide today
"Lady Thatcher understood that commitment to low inflation had to come from the political process â€” government had to be fiscally and monetarily disciplined because this was what the people would vote for."
"The Thatcher record of reform stands up well. For todayâ€™s policymakers faced with the never-ending need to attend to the supply-side, the lessons are that good economic ideas are hard to translate into reality without good politics â€” know your enemy and only trust your friends; be cautious and prepare with endless thoroughness; donâ€™t change anything that is working. The Cityâ€™s Big Bang was an important component of the UK economyâ€™s resurgence and she got it right." (Telegraph)
Maggie's deregulation of the city in London called the "Big Bang" demonstrates that her policies were right on the mark.
Of course the Socialists would want to bring back Big Government - more bureaucracy.
In all ways politic and economic she has proved to be Britains best PM in decades and whats more the best leader the UK has had for many generations.
I'm not really going to comment on Mrs. Thatcher's moral attributes, though I have always said it always bad when a country needs a nanny, and the best man for the job for P.M. is a woman. However, I do think there might have been a good place, if any at a funeral and to boo, at a funeral would be--
--When the Bishop of London, gives the funeral pep-talk! He displayed the worst beliefs of any modern American Methodist minister, though he's an Anglican priest. He referred to the Internet, e.g., Mrs. Thatcher is in God's cloud Everyone should at least send him a copy of the poem, The Modernist Preacher - Entering Hell. The Anglican Church is one of the most disgusting organizations to ever carry the name Christian. If there was --ever-- a proper time to boo during a funeral, it was during this man of Satan's sermon.
By the way, for good or ill, it would be good if we colonials could get the BBC news again, in its complete form, it's worth the British taxpayer money, to make people, especially of Britain's most important ally, to feel closer to the "Mother" country.
She was certainly very biblically literate, and used biblical allusions many times - e.g. her calculated abuse of the parable of the Good Samaritan. Some may even like her quoting of St Francis of Assisi, the current Pope no doubt would! However, she had no intention at all of bringing harmony where there was discord. The Lord knows if she was a Christian.
Some of you may be interested in this article published by her foundation, it is an interesting read. http://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/2193F2214D8E4842A573084E7DFCEB16.pdf
Her experimental Monetarist economics were completely out to lunch and have been rightly abandoned by ALL Conservative movements worldwide today, just as Ronald Reagan abandoned it. Sadly she sacrificed many on her monetarist altar.
Some of the reported observations of Margaret Thatchers parliamentary career are: * In 1988 she spent the year reading the Old Testament. She was noted for quoting the OT to staff. * Those who worked with her speak of her faith being used to bring her through her turbulent career. * Her strong Methodist upbringing is said to have supported her in life. * She attended church throughout her life. * She was a Lay Preacher at University.
If prayer, Bible study, faith and church are the mark of a Christian, then Thatcher demonstrated this mark.
Her life made manifest to those around her a witness of Christian church background contributing to her life and career with power and authority.
Like Deborah the Judge, she was a woman chosen to lead her nation at a crucial time in the country's history. She may not have pleased everybody - But she lead well.
Clearly she didn't buy into the anti-christian socialist ideology or its partner Liberalism.